The udder truth

hopefully86

I'm amazed by how easily people get offended. A woman poses the belief that dairy is bad, and we all jump down her throat. "NO!! MY DAIRY GOOD!! ARGH!!!" Either way you think you know about it - why spend so much time worrying about being right? Don't be a disappointment to the human race - be a truth-seeker and encourager.

The point is that she doesn't have any valid data to back up her argument. At least not that she has put up. It's not about being right, it's about not backing up what you are putting out there as truth.

"The point" is that you need equally valid data to discredit. Helpful suggestions to the contrary or links to why dairy is so beneficial would prove far more effective. Irrespective of your beliefs, I truly do not belive you're a scientist who has conducted studies.

hopefully86

I'm amazed by how easily people get offended. A woman poses the belief that dairy is bad, and we all jump down her throat. "NO!! MY DAIRY GOOD!! ARGH!!!" Either way you think you know about it - why spend so much time worrying about being right? Don't be a disappointment to the human race - be a truth-seeker and encourager.

I encourage the OP look for evidence that says milk is good. Read it objectively without inserting any preconceived beliefs about it being propaganda. To also look at the arguments against the "Forks Over Knives" with the same objectivity, and then to decide for herself if milk is the cause of all the problems of the world.

This isn't a very difficult task, except for the objectivity. Most people have their preconceived notions about what is the "truth." Anything that agrees with this is taken as confirmation and anything that doesn't is dismissed as propaganda, pseudoscience, or conspiracy.

An actual honest to God open mind is a very difficult thing to find.

First thing I've read on this post that was formed from intelligence instead of boredom or snarky egotism. There's hope for us yet. ;P

_SABOTEUR_

Living is linked to dying.

Might as well just end my life now then.

Ahaha.

LOVE your profile pic BTW :laugh:

Why, thank you. :flowerforyou:

corn63

All the OPs original post demonstrates is "I can copy and paste information." That's all it is. No need to get up in arms about it. If you're that interested in it, do your own research and make your own decisions.

But don't get offended when someone doesn't agree. There's a delicate balance between debate and shoving your personal beliefs down throats.

dmpizza

Humans(mostly Europeans) have a truly unique and relatively new ability to digest cows' milk.

Most other mammals cannot digest the mik of other mammals.

This ability actually post-dates domestication of cattle for meat.

I think it is important to use this as a food resource.

iWaffle

Dairy is linked to:
Acne
Arthritis
Asthma
Autism
Breast Cancer
Colon Cancer
Constipation
Cramps
Depression
Diabetes
Diarrhea
Ear Infections
Eczema
Emphysema
Headaches
High Cholesterol
Hyperactivity
Increased mucus
AND YES OSTEOPOROSIS

Watch this video: tobecrude.wordpress.com/

"Hello. I'm a Vegan. Now let me tell you why you should all be a Vegan like me."

Sorry. I'm just not buying this. I experience none of the symptoms you're talking about. Some people do experience these but you can't say that correlation equals causation simply because some people that have symptoms drink milk. Some people that do not drink milk experience these issues. Some people that eat peanut butter have these problems. Is peanut butter going to poison us? We should all stop eating it. I've heard horrible stories about people having allergic reactions to it. Peanut butter = certain death.

:noway:

ladyraven68

Oh, please. It is no secret that the current state of large scale dairy farming is pretty scary stuff. Factory farming requires squeezing very large animals into very small places in a very unsanitary facility. In order to maintain the health (?) of the cows, they are injected with antibiotics, steroids, and growth hormones. I wouldn't touch that milk with a 10 foot barge pole.

I stick to plain organic goat and cow's milk. The cow's milk only as yogurt and butter. If I want Greek style yogurt, I strain it. All you need is a mesh-style strainer and some cheesecloth.

Actually, the use of growth hormones in dairy cattle has been banned in the EU for over 25 years.

Also there are very few factory farms in the UK

People are still believing any old crap they read on the internet as gospel

Iron_Feline

I'm amazed by how easily people get offended. A woman poses the belief that dairy is bad, and we all jump down her throat. "NO!! MY DAIRY GOOD!! ARGH!!!" Either way you think you know about it - why spend so much time worrying about being right? Don't be a disappointment to the human race - be a truth-seeker and encourager.

The point is that she doesn't have any valid data to back up her argument. At least not that she has put up. It's not about being right, it's about not backing up what you are putting out there as truth.

"The point" is that you need equally valid data to discredit. Helpful suggestions to the contrary or links to why dairy is so beneficial would prove far more effective. Irrespective of your beliefs, I truly do not belive you're a scientist who has conducted studies.

Actually as the op stated that dairy is bad for you it is up to them to provide actual peer reviewed studies to prove what they have stated, not for us to have to disprove it.

So far we have had biased books that have been discredited, you tube videos, docs by vegans and wordpress websites.

ladyraven68

Did you actually read the link earlier discrediting the China Study?

http://www.foodrenegade.com/the-china-study-discredited/

Eating dairy does alter peoples hormones.
I know lots of people who have cut out dairy and are actually happier for it, healthier, and look great!
There are lots of ways to get calcium, and actually a lot better ways to get calcium than dairy. I would recommend watching the documentary "Forks over Knives", if you want to check out the scientific evidence, Also, you can check out a short film here:
www.tobecrude.wordpress.com

Forks over Knives is NOT scientific evidence. It's VEGAN DOGMA that ignores scientific evidence. Its producers and all those involved are members of the SPCA.


uhmmmm, Actually they're highly respected doctors!

T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.

castcrew t colin cambell Cast and CrewFor more than 40 years, Dr. Campbell has been at the forefront of nutrition research. His legacy, the China Project, is considered the most comprehensive study of health and nutrition ever conducted. Dr. Campbell is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University and Project Director of the acclaimed China-Oxford-Cornell Diet and Health Project. The study was the culmination of a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine.

Dr. Campbell received his master’s degree and Ph.D. from Cornell, and served as a Research Associate at MIT. He spent 10 years on the faculty of Virginia Tech’s Department of Biochemistry and Nutrition before returning to the Division of Nutritional Sciences at Cornell in 1975 where he presently holds his Endowed Chair (now Emeritus).

His principal scientific interests, which began with his graduate training in the late 1950s, has been on the effects of nutritional status on long term health, particularly on the cause of cancer. He has conducted original research both in laboratory experiments and in large-scale human studies; has received more than 70 grant-years of peer-reviewed research funding, mostly from the National Institute of Health, and has served on several grant review panels of multiple funding agencies. Dr. Campbell has lectured extensively, and has authored more than 300 research papers. He and his son, Thomas M. Campbell II, are authors of the bestselling book, The China Study: Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health.

Dr. T. Colin Campbell is the recipient of several awards, both in research and citizenship, and has actively participated in the development of national and international nutrition policy.

Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D.

castcrew caldwell esselstyn Cast and CrewDr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., received his B.A. from Yale University and his M.D. from Western Reserve University. In 1956, pulling the No. six oar as a member of the victorious United States rowing team, he was awarded a gold medal at the Olympic Games. He was trained as a surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic and at St. George’s Hospital in London. In 1968, as an Army surgeon in Vietnam, he was awarded the Bronze Star.

Dr. Esselstyn has been associated with the Cleveland Clinic since 1968. During that time, he has served as President of the Staff and as a member of the Board of Governors. He chaired the Clinic’s Breast Cancer Task Force and headed its Section of Thyroid and Parathyroid Surgery.

In 1991, Dr. Esselstyn served as President of the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons. That same year he organized the first National Conference on the Elimination of Coronary Artery Disease, which was held in Tucson, Arizona. In 1997, he chaired a follow-up conference, the Summit on Cholesterol and Coronary Disease, which brought together more than 500 physicians and health-care workers in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. In April, 2005, Dr. Esselstyn became the first recipient of the Benjamin Spock Award for Compassion in Medicine. He received the Distinguished Alumnus Award from the Cleveland Clinic Alumni Association in 2009.

His scientific publications number over 150. “The Best Doctors in America” 1994-1995 published by Woodward and White cites Dr. Esselstyn’s surgical expertise in the categories of endocrine and breast disease. In 1995 he published his bench mark long-term nutritional research on arresting and reversing coronary artery disease in severely ill patients. That same study was updated at 12 years making it one of the longest longitudinal studies of its type. It is most compelling, as no compliant patients have sustained disease progression. Today, 20 years later compliant patients continue to thrive.

Dr. Esselstyn and his wife, Ann Crile Esselstyn, have followed a plant-based diet for more than 20 years. They work together to counsel patients both in Cleveland, where they live, and in summer at the farm in upstate New York where Dr. Esselstyn grew up. Dr. Esselstyn concentrates on the medical details, and Ann focuses on healthy foods

These are animal activists giving you dogma. There's no science at all behind it.

servilia

I make my milk from oats. It's quick, easy, and cheap. Sho cheep!

That's not milk. Maybe we can call it oat water? Lol

usmcmp

Word Press is hardly a credible source. They disseminate every conspiracy theory out there

Here are some articles touting the benefits of low fat dairy for health and weight loss

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-get-your-diary

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/consuming-lowfat-dairy-foods-may-help-reduce-stroke-risk/939309


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=79753&page=2

http://www.diethealthclub.com/therapeutic-value-of-different-foods/low-fat-dairy.html

I have a word press and I can say whatever the hell I want (and usually do).

I drink milk or eat cheese, usually multiple times a day. I enjoy it with pop tarts and other processed foods. We'll all die eventually. My aunt ate organic everything, didn't drink milk and was careful about the products she used. She lost her battle with breast cancer 9 years ago in April at 50 years of age. I plan on enjoying whatever time I'm lucky to get on earth and if milk makes me happy I'm going to drink it.

Iron_Feline

Word Press is hardly a credible source. They disseminate every conspiracy theory out there

Here are some articles touting the benefits of low fat dairy for health and weight loss

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-get-your-diary

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/consuming-lowfat-dairy-foods-may-help-reduce-stroke-risk/939309


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=79753&page=2

http://www.diethealthclub.com/therapeutic-value-of-different-foods/low-fat-dairy.html

I have a word press and I can say whatever the hell I want (and usually do).

I drink milk or eat cheese, usually multiple times a day. I enjoy it with pop tarts and other processed foods. We'll all die eventually. My aunt ate organic everything, didn't drink milk and was careful about the products she used. She lost her battle with breast cancer 9 years ago in April at 50 years of age. I plan on enjoying whatever time I'm lucky to get on earth and if milk makes me happy I'm going to drink it.

I'm having a pop tart and ice cream sammie tonight - yum :flowerforyou:

corn63

Word Press is hardly a credible source. They disseminate every conspiracy theory out there

Here are some articles touting the benefits of low fat dairy for health and weight loss

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-get-your-diary

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/consuming-lowfat-dairy-foods-may-help-reduce-stroke-risk/939309


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=79753&page=2

http://www.diethealthclub.com/therapeutic-value-of-different-foods/low-fat-dairy.html

I have a word press and I can say whatever the hell I want (and usually do).

I drink milk or eat cheese, usually multiple times a day. I enjoy it with pop tarts and other processed foods. We'll all die eventually. My aunt ate organic everything, didn't drink milk and was careful about the products she used. She lost her battle with breast cancer 9 years ago in April at 50 years of age. I plan on enjoying whatever time I'm lucky to get on earth and if milk makes me happy I'm going to drink it.

Surely you jest. You cannot have abs like that with POP TARTS IN YOUR DIET.

You must be outside your mind, sir.

sunsnstatheart

I make my milk from oats. It's quick, easy, and cheap. Sho cheep!

That's not milk. Maybe we can call it oat water? Lol

No teats on oats you say?

elfo

These are doctors and researchers!

T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.

castcrew t colin cambell Cast and CrewFor more than 40 years, Dr. Campbell has been at the forefront of nutrition research. His legacy, the China Project, is considered the most comprehensive study of health and nutrition ever conducted. Dr. Campbell is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University and Project Director of the acclaimed China-Oxford-Cornell Diet and Health Project. The study was the culmination of a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine.

Dr. Campbell received his master’s degree and Ph.D. from Cornell, and served as a Research Associate at MIT. He spent 10 years on the faculty of Virginia Tech’s Department of Biochemistry and Nutrition before returning to the Division of Nutritional Sciences at Cornell in 1975 where he presently holds his Endowed Chair (now Emeritus).

His principal scientific interests, which began with his graduate training in the late 1950s, has been on the effects of nutritional status on long term health, particularly on the cause of cancer. He has conducted original research both in laboratory experiments and in large-scale human studies; has received more than 70 grant-years of peer-reviewed research funding, mostly from the National Institute of Health, and has served on several grant review panels of multiple funding agencies. Dr. Campbell has lectured extensively, and has authored more than 300 research papers. He and his son, Thomas M. Campbell II, are authors of the bestselling book, The China Study: Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health.

Dr. T. Colin Campbell is the recipient of several awards, both in research and citizenship, and has actively participated in the development of national and international nutrition policy.

Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D.

castcrew caldwell esselstyn Cast and CrewDr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., received his B.A. from Yale University and his M.D. from Western Reserve University. In 1956, pulling the No. six oar as a member of the victorious United States rowing team, he was awarded a gold medal at the Olympic Games. He was trained as a surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic and at St. George’s Hospital in London. In 1968, as an Army surgeon in Vietnam, he was awarded the Bronze Star.

Dr. Esselstyn has been associated with the Cleveland Clinic since 1968. During that time, he has served as President of the Staff and as a member of the Board of Governors. He chaired the Clinic’s Breast Cancer Task Force and headed its Section of Thyroid and Parathyroid Surgery.

In 1991, Dr. Esselstyn served as President of the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons. That same year he organized the first National Conference on the Elimination of Coronary Artery Disease, which was held in Tucson, Arizona. In 1997, he chaired a follow-up conference, the Summit on Cholesterol and Coronary Disease, which brought together more than 500 physicians and health-care workers in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. In April, 2005, Dr. Esselstyn became the first recipient of the Benjamin Spock Award for Compassion in Medicine. He received the Distinguished Alumnus Award from the Cleveland Clinic Alumni Association in 2009.

His scientific publications number over 150. “The Best Doctors in America” 1994-1995 published by Woodward and White cites Dr. Esselstyn’s surgical expertise in the categories of endocrine and breast disease. In 1995 he published his bench mark long-term nutritional research on arresting and reversing coronary artery disease in severely ill patients. That same study was updated at 12 years making it one of the longest longitudinal studies of its type. It is most compelling, as no compliant patients have sustained disease progression. Today, 20 years later compliant patients continue to thrive.

Dr. Esselstyn and his wife, Ann Crile Esselstyn, have followed a plant-based diet for more than 20 years. They work together to counsel patients both in Cleveland, where they live, and in summer at the farm in upstate New York where Dr. Esselstyn grew up. Dr. Esselstyn concentrates on the medical details, and Ann focuses on healthy foods

MeMyCatsandI

Interesting. It's also been proven that a high percentage of people who do NOT have cancer or cancerous cells have ingested DHMO at some point. But go ahead and think you're enlightened if it helps you.

Fair criticism; but I humbly suggest you're failing to take account of the fact that these people are merely in the same state as those who have or have had cancer BEFORE they had cancer!
They too thought they were just fine while taking in all this DHMO, then 'blammo' and it's all gone horribly wrong!

You don't seem to understand your own logic. By YOUR OWN logic, everyone in the world would die of cancer. And they don't.
Edited: Damn quote boxes!

usmcmp

Word Press is hardly a credible source. They disseminate every conspiracy theory out there

Here are some articles touting the benefits of low fat dairy for health and weight loss

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-get-your-diary

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/consuming-lowfat-dairy-foods-may-help-reduce-stroke-risk/939309


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=79753&page=2

http://www.diethealthclub.com/therapeutic-value-of-different-foods/low-fat-dairy.html

I have a word press and I can say whatever the hell I want (and usually do).

I drink milk or eat cheese, usually multiple times a day. I enjoy it with pop tarts and other processed foods. We'll all die eventually. My aunt ate organic everything, didn't drink milk and was careful about the products she used. She lost her battle with breast cancer 9 years ago in April at 50 years of age. I plan on enjoying whatever time I'm lucky to get on earth and if milk makes me happy I'm going to drink it.

Surely you jest. You cannot have abs like that with POP TARTS IN YOUR DIET.

You must be outside your mind, sir.

Ma'am. I'm a girl and I do eat pop tarts, cheesecake, pizza and cookies. Not as much right now as I used to, but after this contest I'll go back to normal.

sunsnstatheart

These are doctors and researchers!

T. Colin Campbell, Ph.D.

castcrew t colin cambell Cast and CrewFor more than 40 years, Dr. Campbell has been at the forefront of nutrition research. His legacy, the China Project, is considered the most comprehensive study of health and nutrition ever conducted. Dr. Campbell is the Jacob Gould Schurman Professor Emeritus of Nutritional Biochemistry at Cornell University and Project Director of the acclaimed China-Oxford-Cornell Diet and Health Project. The study was the culmination of a 20-year partnership of Cornell University, Oxford University and the Chinese Academy of Preventive Medicine.

Dr. Campbell received his master’s degree and Ph.D. from Cornell, and served as a Research Associate at MIT. He spent 10 years on the faculty of Virginia Tech’s Department of Biochemistry and Nutrition before returning to the Division of Nutritional Sciences at Cornell in 1975 where he presently holds his Endowed Chair (now Emeritus).

His principal scientific interests, which began with his graduate training in the late 1950s, has been on the effects of nutritional status on long term health, particularly on the cause of cancer. He has conducted original research both in laboratory experiments and in large-scale human studies; has received more than 70 grant-years of peer-reviewed research funding, mostly from the National Institute of Health, and has served on several grant review panels of multiple funding agencies. Dr. Campbell has lectured extensively, and has authored more than 300 research papers. He and his son, Thomas M. Campbell II, are authors of the bestselling book, The China Study: Startling Implications for Diet, Weight Loss and Long-term Health.

Dr. T. Colin Campbell is the recipient of several awards, both in research and citizenship, and has actively participated in the development of national and international nutrition policy.

Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., M.D.

castcrew caldwell esselstyn Cast and CrewDr. Caldwell B. Esselstyn, Jr., received his B.A. from Yale University and his M.D. from Western Reserve University. In 1956, pulling the No. six oar as a member of the victorious United States rowing team, he was awarded a gold medal at the Olympic Games. He was trained as a surgeon at the Cleveland Clinic and at St. George’s Hospital in London. In 1968, as an Army surgeon in Vietnam, he was awarded the Bronze Star.

Dr. Esselstyn has been associated with the Cleveland Clinic since 1968. During that time, he has served as President of the Staff and as a member of the Board of Governors. He chaired the Clinic’s Breast Cancer Task Force and headed its Section of Thyroid and Parathyroid Surgery.

In 1991, Dr. Esselstyn served as President of the American Association of Endocrine Surgeons. That same year he organized the first National Conference on the Elimination of Coronary Artery Disease, which was held in Tucson, Arizona. In 1997, he chaired a follow-up conference, the Summit on Cholesterol and Coronary Disease, which brought together more than 500 physicians and health-care workers in Lake Buena Vista, Florida. In April, 2005, Dr. Esselstyn became the first recipient of the Benjamin Spock Award for Compassion in Medicine. He received the Distinguished Alumnus Award from the Cleveland Clinic Alumni Association in 2009.

His scientific publications number over 150. “The Best Doctors in America” 1994-1995 published by Woodward and White cites Dr. Esselstyn’s surgical expertise in the categories of endocrine and breast disease. In 1995 he published his bench mark long-term nutritional research on arresting and reversing coronary artery disease in severely ill patients. That same study was updated at 12 years making it one of the longest longitudinal studies of its type. It is most compelling, as no compliant patients have sustained disease progression. Today, 20 years later compliant patients continue to thrive.

Dr. Esselstyn and his wife, Ann Crile Esselstyn, have followed a plant-based diet for more than 20 years. They work together to counsel patients both in Cleveland, where they live, and in summer at the farm in upstate New York where Dr. Esselstyn grew up. Dr. Esselstyn concentrates on the medical details, and Ann focuses on healthy foods

Just because they have the education doesn't mean that their research is valid. That is why science isn't a battle of little letters behind everyone's names.

helyla

I'm amazed by how easily people get offended. A woman poses the belief that dairy is bad, and we all jump down her throat. "NO!! MY DAIRY GOOD!! ARGH!!!" Either way you think you know about it - why spend so much time worrying about being right? Don't be a disappointment to the human race - be a truth-seeker and encourager.

The point is that she doesn't have any valid data to back up her argument. At least not that she has put up. It's not about being right, it's about not backing up what you are putting out there as truth.

"The point" is that you need equally valid data to discredit. Helpful suggestions to the contrary or links to why dairy is so beneficial would prove far more effective. Irrespective of your beliefs, I truly do not belive you're a scientist who has conducted studies.

You're right, I'm not a scientist and I've never said I was. And as I said in one of my other posts , maybe she is right, but I'm waiting to see the evidence that isn't biased from the start. I haven't said anything scientific that needs to be backed up, what I defended earlier was her argument of the reason people are gaining weight is the chemicals in our food... not that society has become lazy and largely portioned. That just takes all the responsibility away from the person who gained the weight. And that argument I backed with personal experience.

Look, MY point is that she didn't post it as a belief... her original post came across as truth with nothing to back it up. And her arguments later in the thread go against what is common sense.

Just to make everyone happy... DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion... I have no scientific proof to back up anything I have just said (only my own common sense)...so don't listen to me if you don't want. No one's loss.

Edited to take out double quote...

corn63

Word Press is hardly a credible source. They disseminate every conspiracy theory out there

Here are some articles touting the benefits of low fat dairy for health and weight loss

http://www.webmd.com/diet/features/6-reasons-to-get-your-diary

http://www.indianexpress.com/news/consuming-lowfat-dairy-foods-may-help-reduce-stroke-risk/939309


http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=79753&page=2

http://www.diethealthclub.com/therapeutic-value-of-different-foods/low-fat-dairy.html

I have a word press and I can say whatever the hell I want (and usually do).

I drink milk or eat cheese, usually multiple times a day. I enjoy it with pop tarts and other processed foods. We'll all die eventually. My aunt ate organic everything, didn't drink milk and was careful about the products she used. She lost her battle with breast cancer 9 years ago in April at 50 years of age. I plan on enjoying whatever time I'm lucky to get on earth and if milk makes me happy I'm going to drink it.

Surely you jest. You cannot have abs like that with POP TARTS IN YOUR DIET.

You must be outside your mind, sir.

Ma'am. I'm a girl and I do eat pop tarts, cheesecake, pizza and cookies. Not as much right now as I used to, but after this contest I'll go back to normal.

Sir, I didn't look at your profile prior to my comment. I apologize ma'am

Now I'm just craving cheesecake. I blame you if I die of cancer for making me have dairy.