Why is obesity considered deviant behavior?
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Personally, I think the only way to stop obesity and turn our health around is educating our kids.
HIgh School kids who don't know what a freaking potato is (in its raw form) or where butter comes from or what an eggplant is. It's because they are learning to eat processed crap. Funnel all this obesity money into schools for old school home ec classes, nutritional classes, and teach them what IS healthy and what isn't. If colleges require a nutritional class along with the other basics we could actually TEACH people how to eat.
I was 190lbs overweight and "Eat less Move MOre" is vague. That doesn't help. Tell me WHAT to eat and HOW to exercise with 190lbs of extra weight ('cause it's AINT easy!) and I'd have happily done it. I grew up in an ethnic family, my parents were REALLY poor when they married and by the time I came along (last child) it was exciting to them that they could afford the snacks, cookies, candy, and all that other crap that helped me be an obese kid. I never learned that if I ate a bag of carrots instead of a bag of cheetos I'd be healthy...I just ate cheetos, watched the kids who ate carrots and felt sorry for them because their moms didn't pack them delicious stuff like I got.
Once I found a dr that understood HOW to help me and taught me what I should eat and how much of it...I was able to get my *kitten* in gear and make some changes.
If you have a dog that you never taught to sit on command, can you get angry with it because it doesn't know HOW?0 -
Well said @djeffrys10Fighting obesity means telling Companies how and what to sell to the customer.. that isn't going to happen with the current state of government in the US.. look at all the crazies in NY when you try to limit their soda intake.. or parents that complain the government is telling them how to feed their kids (or trying to make healthy meals at school)..
Its going to start with people taking responsibility for themselves, and as we all know that will never happen..
Nor should it happen. It isn't the governments responsibility. I didn't need the government to tell me I was fat. I had a mirror for that. And I didn't need the government to regulate me into being in shape. I am an adult and can make my own choices.
May I also add that when did people suddenly NEED a babysitter for every aspect of their life? Why do we NEED the government to mandate what is good and what is bad for us in order for us to supposedly make the RIGHT choice. Personally I think all these people that want BIG BROTHER to baby them need to put on their big boy/girl panties and start making their own decisions and taking responsibility for their own actions. Get off the teet people.
But, but...welcome to the United Socialist Republic of America!!0 -
WOW! Have you ever come to the wrong place for compassion and understanding? As people find their way to a healthier lifestyle it then becomes permissible to demean and bash others who have not found the light so to speak! If it were all just eat less and move more we would have a society of thin and healthy people. The thing that most people miss is the emotional component to why people are overweight? What makes a person medicate with food. I do think a focus on the emotional and behavioral is what is missing in the fight against obesity. Add that to the eat less and move more and I think we would be on our way to solving this issue.0
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1. Treating smokers with ridicule and disgust has helped to reduce the number of smokers. Same should apply to obesity. Don't underestimate the power of societal pressure.
I don't know about that. It has made some people seem incredibly annoying though. *lights up*
No one shamed me into getting in shape and no one will shame me into quitting smoking. I made the choice for myself. I'm sure you all have plenty of habits I could treat you with ridicule for, tell you how disgusting I think you are. I prefer to just leave you alone and ask that you extend me the same courtesy.
Agreed about smoking. I smoke too, started smoking at a young age. I maybe smoke 3 ciggs a day between school and taking care of a baby whom I do not smoke in front of or even let him see the pack. But still even when a doctor told me I smoked a healthy amount, strangers passing by me at the far end of a parking lot cough and act like they are dying all because I am doing what I want to do without affecting them. I can't stand people like that. It is annoying, NOT shaming me into stopping. I much rather blow the smoke right into their faces instead of putting it out and apologizing.
I get that, as a non-smoker I've decided to either get over it or straight-up ask someone to put it out (I only do this if I kind of have to be in the same place or my 1yo's with me). My real thought though is that I am absolutely flabbergasted that a doctor told you you smoked a healthy amount! You're obviously not at the same risk as a pack-a-day person, but unlike alcohol, research does not support a "healthy" or more precisely "non-damaging" amount. This is completely off topic, I know, sorry OP.0 -
Fighting obesity means telling Companies how and what to sell to the customer.. that isn't going to happen with the current state of government in the US.. look at all the crazies in NY when you try to limit their soda intake.. or parents that complain the government is telling them how to feed their kids (or trying to make healthy meals at school)..
Its going to start with people taking responsibility for themselves, and as we all know that will never happen..
Nor should it happen. It isn't the governments responsibility. I didn't need the government to tell me I was fat. I had a mirror for that. And I didn't need the government to regulate me into being in shape. I am an adult and can make my own choices.
Sure, you made your own choices Mr Sixpack, but not everyone is as perfect as you.
So if there was an outbreak of small pox, the government shouldn't do anything to control or prevent it? Survival of the fittest? What will be, will be? Who cares if it kills thousands of people?
Obesity will kill thousands of people this year, not to mention put a huge strain on medical systems. I think it is a governement's responsibility to control "epidemics", which is what obesity is. You know it's bad when you can get 2 cheeseburgers for less than a head of lettuce.
Why not create a tax on fast food, and use that to fund health care and anti-obesity measures? These companies have all gotten fat off of people getting fat.....time to trim it a little. :huh:0 -
I have a little crush on you lithezebra right now.Why is obesity considered deviant behavior when we throw gobs of money at research for cures of ADHD, Bipolar disorder, cancer, etc. but almost none towards obesity?
That's not true at all. There is plenty of research being done on obesity, and that's a good thing. Not only is obesity a complicated physiological phenomenon that involves behavior, stress, hormones, gut microbes, sleep, and more, but there are profits to be made! Do a Google Scholar search and educate yourself on the very latest studies!
Yes, people can be unfairly judgmental about obesity. The science suggests that a lot of things beyond simple behavior have a role in body fat.
I take full responsibility for my health - especially my weight. Part of that is acknowledging that the obesity picture is waaaay more complicated than the eat less move more crowd would have us believe.0 -
The answer is there. Eat less...move more. There are plenty of examples where this formula has shown itself effective. Just look at this website alone. It's not all THAT complicated.
Peace
So basically, you're a pot stirrer and not very interested in having a real conversation based on data...bummer.
[/quote]
Once again....these forums are about opinions. There is plenty of "evidence" to support both sides of this issue. If you can't tolerate someone who has an opinion that differs from yours without getting into name-calling (pot stirrer), then I suggest you go elsewhere.
Peace.
[/quote]
Hi Dave, I thought these forums were about helping eachother stay healthy and discussing ideas. I can tolerate your opinion, I'd just like to hear some basis for it on a population level, and you don't really seem to want to offer it. Maybe because you have none?0 -
Personally, I think the only way to stop obesity and turn our health around is educating our kids.
HIgh School kids who don't know what a freaking potato is (in its raw form) or where butter comes from or what an eggplant is. It's because they are learning to eat processed crap. Funnel all this obesity money into schools for old school home ec classes, nutritional classes, and teach them what IS healthy and what isn't. If colleges require a nutritional class along with the other basics we could actually TEACH people how to eat.
I was 190lbs overweight and "Eat less Move MOre" is vague. That doesn't help. Tell me WHAT to eat and HOW to exercise @ 190lbs ('cause it's AINT easy!) and I'd have happily done it. Once I found a dr that understood HOW to help me I was able to get my *kitten* in gear and make some changes.
If you have a dog that you never taught to sit on command, can you get angry with it because it doesn't know HOW?
First...people aren't dogs. People have the ability to learn things on their own.
Second...Just because people express their opinion on what the solution is that disagrees with someone elses, doesn't mean they are "angry". They simply disagree. It's not personal.
Third...."Eat less...move more" may seem vague but it's a starting place for people who are seriously looking to change something about themselves. Remember, people have the abiity to learn for themselves. They don't need to be "taught" something by someone else. If you look at history as recently as the founding of this nation, there were very few educational institutions. Most of our founding fathers were self taught.
Last.....you said it yourself...after you leaned how to take action... "I was able to get my *kitten* in gear and make some changes." Nobody did it for you. You ate less and moved more. You didn't blame it on someone or something else.
Peace.0 -
Sure, you made your own choices Mr Sixpack, but not everyone is as perfect as you.
So if there was an outbreak of small pox, the government shouldn't do anything to control or prevent it? Survival of the fittest? What will be, will be? Who cares if it kills thousands of people?
Obesity will kill thousands of people this year, not to mention put a huge strain on medical systems. I think it is a governement's responsibility to control "epidemics", which is what obesity is. You know it's bad when you can get 2 cheeseburgers for less than a head of lettuce.
Why not create a tax on fast food, and use that to fund health care and anti-obesity measures? These companies have all gotten fat off of people getting fat.....time to trim it a little. :huh:
So obesity is contagious now?0 -
OP, you might not have come to the right place when you started such a thread on a calorie-counting website.
With that said, I do agree with you - to a certain degree.
For all the "you can do it yourself" and "lack of self control", I still see alot of "fatty-shaming" going on that people should really think twice about.
After all anorexia and bulimia are food disorders. You cannot make fun of anoxerics or bulimics lest you be declared a social pariah. Its alright to make fun of fat people though - just look up any comments section on that news about the first airline to charge by the kilo. People choose not to acknowledge that obesity may have roots far beyond the physical such as depression, anxiety disorders and the such. Mocked as these reasons may be, they also include hormonal imbalances, which are very real.
I'm not saying that you should delegate your responsibilities to the government - your aim to feel happy, "healthy" and the such. But --
It would be nice to get appropriate support when you want help - not backhanded comments that often do more damage than good.
I have seen a lot more women get bashed for either having or wanting to build muscle than I have seen fat bashing
Wow, where are you seeing this? It certainly has not been my experience at all.
Start a thread on muscular women like women who compete in figure or bodybuilding, people have had to delete their own threads because of the amount of hate they got.
MFP opinions do not equal real-world. On this website, sure, population at large, no.
Wrong.
I showed my mother and sister in law some pictures just last night of some of the women on this forum who are incredibly fit with very low bodyfat levels. They BOTH made a disgusted face and said they were 'gross' and 'manly'. Neither is a member of this site, and my sister in law actually goes to the gym a hell of a lot more than I do (I go 3x a week, she usually goes 5).
If I can pull two real world examples at once out of my own family...how many others out there feel the same? The difference between 'fat shaming' and 'fit shaming' in your general day to day society...is that there are FAR LESS women who are that fit to shame. There just happens to be more of them located here on MFP...so the trend is more apparent here.0 -
IMHO people have to be accountable for themselves and their choices. I was at the gym and looking at a Papa Johns commercial advertising $5 pizzas buy more consume more and as I am watching the owner of Papa Johns he is very fit and trim. Papa Johns probably dont eat his own pizza!!! All we are doing is making people like him rich while the American people continue to make bad decisions and put more money in their pockets.0
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Well the neoliberals are out hating on community again, glad you made it.
While I don't have a solution to the obesity epidemic, I think what you are truly asking is a simple how did it get this bad?0 -
How would one know what coughing strangers on the other side of the parking lot are reacting to?0
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The answer is there. Eat less...move more. There are plenty of examples where this formula has shown itself effective. Just look at this website alone. It's not all THAT complicated.
Peace
So basically, you're a pot stirrer and not very interested in having a real conversation based on data...bummer.
Once again....these forums are about opinions. There is plenty of "evidence" to support both sides of this issue. If you can't tolerate someone who has an opinion that differs from yours without getting into name-calling (pot stirrer), then I suggest you go elsewhere.
Peace.
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Hi Dave, I thought these forums were about helping eachother stay healthy and discussing ideas. I can tolerate your opinion, I'd just like to hear some basis for it on a population level, and you don't really seem to want to offer it. Maybe because you have none?
[/quote]
You obviously can't tolerate other people's opinions because you resorted to name-calling.
I already stated one basis for why I feel the way I do. All you have to do is look at the "Success Stories" on this website. Time and again, people are successful when they adopt the mentality that only "they" are responsible for their food intake and exercise level. That's powerful! Of course it's not proof of my opinion...I never said it was. It's simply evidence. It's as much evidence as I've seen from those who try to find other solutions to the issue. As far as a population level, I'm not sure what you mean.
If what I have said so far isn't good enough for you, then that's your problem. I'm simply sharing my opinions like you and everyone else. 0 -
OP, you might not have come to the right place when you started such a thread on a calorie-counting website.
With that said, I do agree with you - to a certain degree.
For all the "you can do it yourself" and "lack of self control", I still see alot of "fatty-shaming" going on that people should really think twice about.
After all anorexia and bulimia are food disorders. You cannot make fun of anoxerics or bulimics lest you be declared a social pariah. Its alright to make fun of fat people though - just look up any comments section on that news about the first airline to charge by the kilo. People choose not to acknowledge that obesity may have roots far beyond the physical such as depression, anxiety disorders and the such. Mocked as these reasons may be, they also include hormonal imbalances, which are very real.
I'm not saying that you should delegate your responsibilities to the government - your aim to feel happy, "healthy" and the such. But --
It would be nice to get appropriate support when you want help - not backhanded comments that often do more damage than good.
I have seen a lot more women get bashed for either having or wanting to build muscle than I have seen fat bashing
Wow, where are you seeing this? It certainly has not been my experience at all.
Start a thread on muscular women like women who compete in figure or bodybuilding, people have had to delete their own threads because of the amount of hate they got.
MFP opinions do not equal real-world. On this website, sure, population at large, no.
Wrong.
I showed my mother and sister in law some pictures just last night of some of the women on this forum who are incredibly fit with very low bodyfat levels. They BOTH made a disgusted face and said they were 'gross' and 'manly'. Neither is a member of this site, and my sister in law actually goes to the gym a hell of a lot more than I do (I go 3x a week, she usually goes 5).
If I can pull two real world examples at once out of my own family...how many others out there feel the same? The difference between 'fat shaming' and 'fit shaming' in your general day to day society...is that there are FAR LESS women who are that fit to shame. There just happens to be more of them located here on MFP...so the trend is more apparent here.
Ok, sorry, your data collection methods are impeccable. Did you do the same with pictures of obese people to guage difference in reactions? I'm not saying the "anti-muscle bias" doesn't exist, but look at your argument. Also, whether or not the find it "gross", fat-shaming is actually more about what negative qualities people associate with obesity that may or may not correlate. Fit-shaming as you call it seems to be more about physical appearance.0 -
The answer is there. Eat less...move more. There are plenty of examples where this formula has shown itself effective. Just look at this website alone. It's not all THAT complicated.
Peace
So basically, you're a pot stirrer and not very interested in having a real conversation based on data...bummer.
Once again....these forums are about opinions. There is plenty of "evidence" to support both sides of this issue. If you can't tolerate someone who has an opinion that differs from yours without getting into name-calling (pot stirrer), then I suggest you go elsewhere.
Peace.
Hi Dave, I thought these forums were about helping eachother stay healthy and discussing ideas. I can tolerate your opinion, I'd just like to hear some basis for it on a population level, and you don't really seem to want to offer it. Maybe because you have none?
[/quote]
You obviously can't tolerate other people's opinions because you resorted to name-calling.
I already stated one basis for why I feel the way I do. All you have to do is look at the "Success Stories" on this website. Time and again, people are successful when they adopt the mentality that only "they" are responsible for their food intake and exercise level. That's powerful! Of course it's not proof of my opinion...I never said it was. It's simply evidence. It's as much evidence as I've seen from those who try to find other solutions to the issue. As far as a population level, I'm not sure what you mean.
If what I have said so far isn't good enough for you, then that's your problem. I'm simply sharing my opinions like you and everyone else.
[/quote]
I mean how would we go about getting more people (the rest of the population) to adopt this mentality or do whatever else works. "eat less move more" works if you do it, yes, but the real key for health professionals is to figure out how to get people to actually do it. That's been my point all along, because "telling them" has not changed overall statistics.0 -
OP, you might not have come to the right place when you started such a thread on a calorie-counting website.
With that said, I do agree with you - to a certain degree.
For all the "you can do it yourself" and "lack of self control", I still see alot of "fatty-shaming" going on that people should really think twice about.
After all anorexia and bulimia are food disorders. You cannot make fun of anoxerics or bulimics lest you be declared a social pariah. Its alright to make fun of fat people though - just look up any comments section on that news about the first airline to charge by the kilo. People choose not to acknowledge that obesity may have roots far beyond the physical such as depression, anxiety disorders and the such. Mocked as these reasons may be, they also include hormonal imbalances, which are very real.
I'm not saying that you should delegate your responsibilities to the government - your aim to feel happy, "healthy" and the such. But --
It would be nice to get appropriate support when you want help - not backhanded comments that often do more damage than good.
I have seen a lot more women get bashed for either having or wanting to build muscle than I have seen fat bashing
Wow, where are you seeing this? It certainly has not been my experience at all.
Start a thread on muscular women like women who compete in figure or bodybuilding, people have had to delete their own threads because of the amount of hate they got.
MFP opinions do not equal real-world. On this website, sure, population at large, no.
Wrong.
I showed my mother and sister in law some pictures just last night of some of the women on this forum who are incredibly fit with very low bodyfat levels. They BOTH made a disgusted face and said they were 'gross' and 'manly'. Neither is a member of this site, and my sister in law actually goes to the gym a hell of a lot more than I do (I go 3x a week, she usually goes 5).
If I can pull two real world examples at once out of my own family...how many others out there feel the same? The difference between 'fat shaming' and 'fit shaming' in your general day to day society...is that there are FAR LESS women who are that fit to shame. There just happens to be more of them located here on MFP...so the trend is more apparent here.
Ok, sorry, your data collection methods are impeccable. Did you do the same with pictures of obese people to guage difference in reactions? I'm not saying the "anti-muscle bias" doesn't exist, but look at your argument. Also, whether or not the find it "gross", fat-shaming is actually more about what negative qualities people associate with obesity that may or may not correlate. Fit-shaming as you call it seems to be more about physical appearance.
/sigh...if I had a dime for every time I was asked to fund a ****ing study for an MFP statistician...I'd be rich.
Oh...and clearly, the fact that fit shaming is based on physical appearance rather than actual negative health issues (which the bulk of the obese...and I don't mean by the BMI chart here...are obviously afflicted with) makes it so much better right?
Seriously, I understand that you're choosing to be willfully ignorant here, but your argument is pretty freakin thin.0 -
Fighting obesity means telling Companies how and what to sell to the customer.. that isn't going to happen with the current state of government in the US.. look at all the crazies in NY when you try to limit their soda intake.. or parents that complain the government is telling them how to feed their kids (or trying to make healthy meals at school)..
Its going to start with people taking responsibility for themselves, and as we all know that will never happen..
Nor should it happen. It isn't the governments responsibility. I didn't need the government to tell me I was fat. I had a mirror for that. And I didn't need the government to regulate me into being in shape. I am an adult and can make my own choices.
Yay! Absolutely true it is NOT the governments job.0 -
I'm just saying they're likely not that similar. I never asked for a study, I just said the previous quote was not one that we can base anything on. Do some people think women bodybuilders are somehow "wrong" or "unattractive", yes, and that is often displayed in ugly behavior. Do some people do the same to obese people, yes again. Do we have some real way of gauging which happens more? No. Do we hear reports of female bodybuilders being treated unfairly because of their appearance in the workplace or that people associate them with non-physical negative qualities, I haven't. Sure, people are rude to anyone who looks different, but to say that it happens more often to very fit people than to fat people seems totally unfounded at best. Also, I was reminding the individual who I responded to that if you want to tell someone they're wrong, it's usually helpful to provide a reason that has some logical basis to it.0
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Hi ctpeace,
You state....
"I mean how would we go about getting more people (the rest of the population) to adopt this mentality or do whatever else works. "eat less move more" works if you do it, yes, but the real key for health professionals is to figure out how to get people to actually do it. That's been my point all along, because "telling them" has not changed overall statistics. "
My experience with people (no matter what the issue) has shown me that people (myself included) can't be motivated to do ANYTHING until something in their psyche clicks and THEY decide to do it. That goes for losing weight too. The "health professionals" should not be depended on to find out why this is true. It's probably best that nobody ever figures out a way to control humans or we'd just be a bunch of mindless robots with no free will.
I doubt there is an answer to "how to get people to actually do it." However, I DO KNOW that when people finally decide to just eat less and move more, they have success losing weight. Not only that, but if you'll do some research, you will discover that not only does the weight come off...it has a greater chance of STAYING off than any other method. I'm not going to go do the research for you. I've already done it to my satisfaction.
Peace.0
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