McDonalds McWrap

jonnythan

If someone looked at the last few days of my diary, most people would say that the meal I had at McDonald's last night was definitely worse than the homemade burritos I had on Friday night.

Of course, the homemade burritos were probably "worse". More sodium, more calories, just as many if not more ingredients people don't know how to pronounce, more trans fat.

Bottom line is that the McWrap is pretty much 100% identical to what you'd construct at home using typical ingredients no one demonizes, like bagged shredded cheese and flour tortillas.

ILoveTheBrowns

coach reddy.........youre annoying

CoachReddy

*sigh* I'll do it... fine....

Chicken Breast: Chicken breast fillet with rib meat, water, seasoning (rice starch, salt, sugar, yeast extract, canola oil, onion powder, maltodextrin, chicken skin, paprika, flavor, sunflower oil, chicken, garlic powder, chicken fat, spices), sodium phosphates.

Prepared with Liquid Margarine: Liquid soybean oil and hydrogenated cottonseed and soybean oils, water, partially hydrogenated soybean oil, salt, soy lecithin, mono-and diglycerides, sodium benzoate and potassium sorbate (preservatives), artificial flavor, citric acid, vitamin A palmitate, beta carotene (color).

Flour Tortilla: Enriched Flour (Bleached Wheat Flour, Malted Barley Flour, Niacin, Reduced Iron, Thiamin Mononitrate, Riboflavin, Folic Acid), Water, Shortening (Interesterified Soybean Oil and/or Hydrogenated Soybean Oil and/or Soybean Oil and/or Hydrogenated Cottonseed Oil), Contains 2% or Less of: Sugar, Leavening (May Contain One or More of: Baking Soda, Sodium Aluminum Sulfate, Corn Starch, Sodium Acid Pyrophosphate, Calcium Sulfate, Monocalcium Phosphate), Salt, Wheat Gluten, Dough Conditioners (Sodium Metabisulfite [Contains Sulfites], Distilled Monoglycerides).

CheeseCheddar cheese [pasteurized milk, cheese culture, salt, enzymes, annatto (color)], Monterey Jack cheese (pasteurized milk, cheese culture, salt, enzymes), potato starch and corn starch and powdered cellulose (prevent caking), dextrose, enzymes, natamycin (natural mold inhibitor).

Ranch Sauce: Soybean Oil, Cultured Buttermilk, Water, Sour Cream (Milk, Cream, Modified Food Starch, Guar Gum, Sodium Phosphates, Carob Bean Gum, Sodium Citrate, Calcium Sulfate, Carrageenan, Dextrose, Potassium Sorbate, Enzymes), Egg Yolks, Contains 2% or Less: Distilled Vinegar, Maltodextrin, Salt, Dextrose, Modified Food Starch, Soy Sauce (Soybeans, Wheat, Salt), Dried Onion, Garlic Powder, Lactic Acid, Natural Flavor (Vegetable Source), Shallots, Preservatives (Sodium Benzoate, Potassium Sorbate, Calcium Disodium EDTA), Xanthan Gum, Spice, Phosphoric Acid, Sodium Acid Sulfate, Propylene Glycol Alginate, Autolyzed Yeast Extract.

Ya know, if we made our own chicken wrap, this would look differently. You can alswo make your own tortillas, (it isn't hard) and the ingredients list would have only 4 items in the list.

If you bought Mission tortillas, Kraft shredded cheese, and Kraft Ranch Dressing, and used some Mrs Dash to season the chicken, it would actually look almost identical.

And if I did that, and posted about it, no one would call it inedible crap or say I was killing myself.

yes they would. absolutely they would.

CoachReddy

coach reddy.........youre annoying

proud of it. :laugh:

pennydreadful270

sorry, but a 99 cent bag of woody broccoli stems is just not something my family will eat. But the point is, this picture is not about shopping at some bottom of the barrel store. It is supposed to be a comparison between fast food and fresh food. The comparison how ever is terrible. The meal you would make from the grocery food is wacky. They should fix this if they want to make a real point.

Huh? You could have burgers without the buns (veggie or beef, your choice) with chunky potato wedges, brocolli on the side with a glass of OJ. Looks like a perfect meal to me. Then you still have strawberries for dessert,maybe chop them up with a little teaspoon of something sweet on top, and cashews to snack on.

I'll admit, I have no idea what one would do with pinto beans. They're not really a scottish staple!! But I could choose broad beans, kidney beans, chickpeas or lentils for the about same price and they'd be very handy in my kitchen.

toaster6

I think a lot of fast food is cheaper per calorie, but since we don't generally want that many calories anyway it's a false economy.

I saw these images going around tumbler and I was super skeptical because some of their veg and meat seemed really cheap. So I actually sat and went through all the calculations using the UK supermarket Tesco. Right enough, the UK food was more expensive- but so was the burger king. I worked out this meal at something around £22 for the BK and £19 for the Tesco shopping (sadly I don't have the picture on this computer to show you!). Only difference is it was frozen minced beef- not the best quality- because I really had no idea what that sausage-looking package of beef was like. But you could spend that £3 difference on better beef and you're still eating a lot healthier for the money.

I think I'll take my chances with McDonald's or BK ground beef before I eat that concoction fake burger crap.

Those prices are not realistic. On fact, maybe when I come home from the store later I will post the real prices on my own stores shelves. I wish someone would update that picture if it is going to circulating.

Do you live by a 99 Cents super store? My boyfriend and I purchased enough perfectly good groceries ( veggies, bread, cheese, eggs, milk, fruits; meats were purchased elsewhere) to feed four people for a little less than a month for less than forty dollars. I've only ever seen these stores in the western part of the country but you could check other dollar store types. The selections are quite basic but if you wanted more selection, use the savings to buy other options elsewhere.

sorry, but a 99 cent bag of woody broccoli stems is just not something my family will eat. But the point is, this picture is not about shopping at some bottom of the barrel store. It is supposed to be a comparison between fast food and fresh food. The comparison how ever is terrible. The meal you would make from the grocery food is wacky. They should fix this if they want to make a real point.

We bought 99 Cents store groceries when we were visiting my family in Cali and back here in Louisiana, we buy groceries from a locally sourced grocery store and my boyfriend couldn't tell the difference when everything was cooked. Heck, you can go to Target or Walmart and get some well priced groceries. Even if you want to argue that cheap groceries don't taste as good as pricier ones, they're still healthier foods at a low cost and the main point was cost wasn't it? People are arguing that eating junky fast food is cheaper than having nutritive foods and that argument in invalid since, as many have pointed out, you can get lots of groceries for cheap if you look.

Mamalea32

:sick: Those wraps r grrrosss. U can taste the artificialmishmash
Of whatever crap is in there!

jonnythan

:sick: Those wraps r grrrosss. U can taste the artificialmishmash
Of whatever crap is in there!

I looked through the last couple of weeks of your diary and didn't see a McWrap in there.

Did I miss it?

JustJennie1

So we all know that fast food isn't exactly the best choice that a person could make.

We all know that it's crappy and bad for you.

We all have a CHOICE as to whether or not we want to eat there. Do I eat at fast food restaurants? Yes. Probably about once a year. Do I know that the burger and fries I'm shoveling into my face isn't the "healthiest" for me? Yup. Do I enjoy it? Hell yeah. I also realize when I go to a non fast food restaurant that the burger I'm eating isn't the best or healthiest for me either but am I going to come on to a message board and post about the evils of fast food, how bad it is for you and how stupid people are for eating it? No. Because it's your choice as to whether or not you want to eat that food.

1223345

I think a lot of fast food is cheaper per calorie, but since we don't generally want that many calories anyway it's a false economy.

I saw these images going around tumbler and I was super skeptical because some of their veg and meat seemed really cheap. So I actually sat and went through all the calculations using the UK supermarket Tesco. Right enough, the UK food was more expensive- but so was the burger king. I worked out this meal at something around £22 for the BK and £19 for the Tesco shopping (sadly I don't have the picture on this computer to show you!). Only difference is it was frozen minced beef- not the best quality- because I really had no idea what that sausage-looking package of beef was like. But you could spend that £3 difference on better beef and you're still eating a lot healthier for the money.

I think I'll take my chances with McDonald's or BK ground beef before I eat that concoction fake burger crap.

Those prices are not realistic. On fact, maybe when I come home from the store later I will post the real prices on my own stores shelves. I wish someone would update that picture if it is going to circulating.

Do you live by a 99 Cents super store? My boyfriend and I purchased enough perfectly good groceries ( veggies, bread, cheese, eggs, milk, fruits; meats were purchased elsewhere) to feed four people for a little less than a month for less than forty dollars. I've only ever seen these stores in the western part of the country but you could check other dollar store types. The selections are quite basic but if you wanted more selection, use the savings to buy other options elsewhere.

sorry, but a 99 cent bag of woody broccoli stems is just not something my family will eat. But the point is, this picture is not about shopping at some bottom of the barrel store. It is supposed to be a comparison between fast food and fresh food. The comparison how ever is terrible. The meal you would make from the grocery food is wacky. They should fix this if they want to make a real point.

We bought 99 Cents store groceries when we were visiting my family in Cali and back here in Louisiana, we buy groceries from a locally sourced grocery store and my boyfriend couldn't tell the difference when everything was cooked. Heck, you can go to Target or Walmart and get some well priced groceries. Even if you want to argue that cheap groceries don't taste as good as pricier ones, they're still healthier foods at a low cost and the main point was cost wasn't it? People are arguing that eating junky fast food is cheaper than having nutritive foods and that argument in invalid since, as many have pointed out, you can get lots of groceries for cheap if you look.

Since when did I ever ask for shopping tips? I did not. I shop just fine for my family. The point I made and the point you miss is, the prices listed here are not what you actually pay anywhere. Who understands that? Oh never mind....... carry on!

jonnythan

yes they would. absolutely they would.

You would, yes. I'm talking about regular people, who don't irrationally believe that store-bought flour tortillas and shredded cheese are going to kill people.

CoachReddy

yes they would. absolutely they would.

You would, yes. I'm talking about regular people, who don't irrationally believe that store-bought flour tortillas and shredded cheese are going to kill people.

lol regular people in america are fatties

pennydreadful270

Since when did I ever ask for shopping tips? I did not. I shop just fine for my family. The point I made and the point you miss is, the prices listed here are not what you actually pay anywhere. Who understands that? Oh never mind....... carry on!

Yes but what you're missing is the BK is ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE

CoachReddy

So we all know that fast food isn't exactly the best choice that a person could make.

We all know that it's crappy and bad for you.

We all have a CHOICE as to whether or not we want to eat there. Do I eat at fast food restaurants? Yes. Probably about once a year. Do I know that the burger and fries I'm shoveling into my face isn't the "healthiest" for me? Yup. Do I enjoy it? Hell yeah. I also realize when I go to a non fast food restaurant that the burger I'm eating isn't the best or healthiest for me either but am I going to come on to a message board and post about the evils of fast food, how bad it is for you and how stupid people are for eating it? No. Because it's your choice as to whether or not you want to eat that food.

jonnythan doesn't. he HONESTLY believes it's good for you. blows my mind.

JustJennie1

yes they would. absolutely they would.

So how do you propose I make my chicken wrap? From scratch? Slaughter the chickens, process the grains for my tortilla. Make the cheese? Would that make it "healthier"?

1223345

Since when did I ever ask for shopping tips? I did not. I shop just fine for my family. The point I made and the point you miss is, the prices listed here are not what you actually pay anywhere. Who understands that? Oh never mind....... carry on!

Yes but the BK is ALSO MORE EXPENSIVE

YES. So you see, back to what I was saying, I wish they would edit that to reflect the actual price you would pay.

Madaly320

I haven't had fast food since I was diagnosed with Celiac Disease in Oct '12. Well, aside from the occasional McDolands Fries. lol
Since my diagnosis, I have also made a conscious decision not to get it as much as I used to for my kids. The more I learn about quick, healthier alternatives, the less I buy the stuff. Most times when we are in a hurry, I would rather them eat a quick bowl of cereal before we are out the door than to grab McDonalds.

I will be honest and say we used to eat out, which includes fast food, take out and sit down meals...at least 4 times a week. I would like to make it even less...but right now we are at about 1 time a week.

It is a choice. I don't blame these restaurants...if people knew better, they would choose better, and if they don't care then well, these fast food places are a business and they see a need. Shame on them for not making better quality food. I am not saying they need to serve healthy foods, but better quality would be nice. But it is my choice not to eat there.

jonnythan

:sick: Those wraps r grrrosss. U can taste the artificialmishmash
Of whatever crap is in there!

Yeah, no McWrap, but I did see stuff from Subway and Friendly's and Ruby Tuesday. Also saw Egg Beaters, Yoplait yogurt, Baskin Robbins ice cream, various frozen foods, sugary granola bars, etc.

1000+ calories from a chain restaurant? Absolutely fine! A grilled chicken patty from McDonald's? CRAP!

CoachReddy

yes they would. absolutely they would.

So how do you propose I make my chicken wrap? From scratch? Slaughter the chickens, process the grains for my tortilla. Make the cheese? Would that make it "healthier"?

haha please see the ingredient list i posted. is there NO way to make that list smaller? no brands of tortillas with fewer ingredients? no chicken that doesn't come with partially hydrogenated soybean oil? no cheese that doesn't come with potato starch in it?

come on.

JustJennie1

So we all know that fast food isn't exactly the best choice that a person could make.

We all know that it's crappy and bad for you.

We all have a CHOICE as to whether or not we want to eat there. Do I eat at fast food restaurants? Yes. Probably about once a year. Do I know that the burger and fries I'm shoveling into my face isn't the "healthiest" for me? Yup. Do I enjoy it? Hell yeah. I also realize when I go to a non fast food restaurant that the burger I'm eating isn't the best or healthiest for me either but am I going to come on to a message board and post about the evils of fast food, how bad it is for you and how stupid people are for eating it? No. Because it's your choice as to whether or not you want to eat that food.

jonnythan doesn't. he HONESTLY believes it's good for you. blows my mind.

I think his point is that it's pretty much the lesser of two evils and based on what the ingredients are it isn't that bad. He also pointed out that you can make your own, which you thought was crap, right?

butterfli7o

I disagree with the statement that fast food is not cheaper than healthy food. Here in US - you can get two for one coupons, super-size free, coupons and discounts. I can feed a hungry group of kids for $12.00. Good luck filling then up on chicken, hummus, salad and veggies. Even good starches. All this will be at least $20.00 and then there are the leftovers and they are hungry in 2 hours and start to snack. Even adults, chicken, fish, lean meats are not cheap. Veggies are out of season and expensive here. The only cheap thing are dried beans and rice.

It costs more to eat healthy. That being said, you can always find good things to eat at fast food places. I agree if you compare these items on their menus to healthy food at home, it is probably just as costly. So... conclusion is... eating healthy is more expensive than junky.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this. I've cut over $100 a month off of my grocery bill since we stopped eating so much junk food. I just bought groceries for 2 weeks for 5 people for $183. I buy lean meat, fish, chicken, fresh veggies, fresh fruit, and I get healthy snacks too. My fridge, freezer and cabinets are full. The only thing I might possible have to buy before next payday is some more bread.

It really depends on what you're buying, honestly. I have to agree that if you're in a rush and must go the fast food route....it's $.99 for a McDouble and what, $5.00, for a salad?
Not for or 100% against fast food, just something I wanted to throw out there. I don't eat fast food on the regular, but I don't think it's going to kill me either.

jonnythan

yes they would. absolutely they would.

So how do you propose I make my chicken wrap? From scratch? Slaughter the chickens, process the grains for my tortilla. Make the cheese? Would that make it "healthier"?

I think he'd want you to buy the ingredients from Trader Joe's so they don't have scary things like "xantham gum" in them. Oh, wait, a lot of the "all natural" stuff has that. Well, maybe he wants you to avoid dextrose. Or maybe he thinks that yeast extract is deadly.

Seriously, there are no scary ingredients in the McWrap you won't find in Mission tortillas or Kraft shredded cheese.

CoachReddy

So we all know that fast food isn't exactly the best choice that a person could make.

We all know that it's crappy and bad for you.

We all have a CHOICE as to whether or not we want to eat there. Do I eat at fast food restaurants? Yes. Probably about once a year. Do I know that the burger and fries I'm shoveling into my face isn't the "healthiest" for me? Yup. Do I enjoy it? Hell yeah. I also realize when I go to a non fast food restaurant that the burger I'm eating isn't the best or healthiest for me either but am I going to come on to a message board and post about the evils of fast food, how bad it is for you and how stupid people are for eating it? No. Because it's your choice as to whether or not you want to eat that food.

jonnythan doesn't. he HONESTLY believes it's good for you. blows my mind.

I think his point is that it's pretty much the lesser of two evils and based on what the ingredients are it isn't that bad. He also pointed out that you can make your own, which you thought was crap, right?

lesser of two evils? what's the worse evil?

JustJennie1

yes they would. absolutely they would.

So how do you propose I make my chicken wrap? From scratch? Slaughter the chickens, process the grains for my tortilla. Make the cheese? Would that make it "healthier"?

haha please see the ingredient list i posted. is there NO way to make that list smaller? no brands of tortillas with fewer ingredients? no chicken that doesn't come with partially hydrogenated soybean oil? no cheese that doesn't come with potato starch in it?

come on.

Jonnythan was the one who pointed out the ingredients that one could use to make their own chicken wrap. Last time I checked the chicken I buy at the store and the shredded cheese I would use, not to mention the tortilla doesn't have crap in it.

UpEarly

I think a lot of fast food is cheaper per calorie, but since we don't generally want that many calories anyway it's a false economy.

I saw these images going around tumblr and I was super skeptical because some of their veg and meat seemed really cheap. So I actually sat and went through all the calculations using the UK supermarket Tesco. Right enough, the UK food was more expensive- but so was the burger king. I worked out this meal at something around £22 for the BK and £19 for the Tesco shopping (sadly I don't have the picture on this computer to show you!). Only difference is it was frozen minced beef- not the best quality- because I really had no idea what that sausage-looking package of beef was like. But you could spend that £3 difference on better beef and you're still eating a lot healthier for the money.

I think I'll take my chances with mcdonalds or BK ground beef before I eat that concoction fake burger crap.

Agreed! The ingredient list for those Morningstar Grillers is just as long and scary as the McDonald's Chicken!

TEXTURED VEGETABLE PROTEIN (WHEAT GLUTEN, SOY PROTEIN CONCENTRATE, WATER FOR HYDRATION), EGG WHITES, CORN OIL, CALCIUM CASEINATE, CONTAINS TWO PERCENT OR LESS OF MODIFIED TAPIOCA STARCH, ONION POWDER, CANOLA OIL, TRIGLYCERIDES FROM COCONUT OIL, HYDROLYZED VEGETABLE PROTEIN (CORN GLUTEN, WHEAT GLUTEN, SOY PROTEIN), DEXTROSE, SALT, SOY PROTEIN ISOLATE, AUTOLYZED YEAST EXTRACT, SUGAR, NATURAL AND ARTIFICIAL FLAVORS FROM NON-MEAT SOURCES, CARAMEL COLOR, CULTURED WHEY, MALTODEXTRIN, GARLIC POWDER, SPICE, CELLULOSE GUM, DISODIUM GUANYLATE, DISODIUM INOSINATE, SOY SAUCE (WATER, SOYBEANS, SALT, WHEAT), VITAMINS AND MINERALS (NIACINAMIDE, IRON [FERROUS SULFATE], THIAMIN MONONITRATE [VITAMIN B1], PYRIDOXINE HYDROCHLORIDE [VITAMIN B6], RIBOFLAVIN [VITAMIN B2], VITAMIN B12), SESAME SEED OIL, CELERY EXTRACT, SOY LECITHIN.

jonnythan

is there NO way to make that list smaller? no brands of tortillas with fewer ingredients?

Myth of the day: "fewer ingredients" and "healthier" are the same thing.

Cheeky_0102

I disagree with the statement that fast food is not cheaper than healthy food. Here in US - you can get two for one coupons, super-size free, coupons and discounts. I can feed a hungry group of kids for $12.00. Good luck filling then up on chicken, hummus, salad and veggies. Even good starches. All this will be at least $20.00 and then there are the leftovers and they are hungry in 2 hours and start to snack. Even adults, chicken, fish, lean meats are not cheap. Veggies are out of season and expensive here. The only cheap thing are dried beans and rice.

It costs more to eat healthy. That being said, you can always find good things to eat at fast food places. I agree if you compare these items on their menus to healthy food at home, it is probably just as costly. So... conclusion is... eating healthy is more expensive than junky.

I beg to differ. I'm in Canada, on vancouver island and our food Is a little pricier than others, but not like Hawaii expensive... that said, i never pay more than $12 to feed my family.

the chicken example... i bought a farm raised chicken... the smallest i could get was $20 (probably 4 lbs)... I roasted it up two days ago, served it with homemade sidekick noodles (noodles, bacon, sour cream chives) and cooked carrots. We will get 2 more meals from the meat (not counting the broth), so the chicken cost $6.70ish for that meal.

The noodles i made from scratch... even with my local stoneground wheat, i can't imagine it being more than 25 cents worth of flour. the recipe uses an egg... farm raised, $4/dozen... so $33 cents... a small tub of sour cream was about $2, i used 1.4 of it so 50 cents, local smoked bacon, about 50c per strip, i used 2... my "sidekick noodles" we will call $2. There are a million cheaper sides i could have made, but this was a treat.

my husband specifically asked for carrots, that's not my first choice, but whatever. I used something like 8 carrots... a small bag of organic carrots are $3, for the benefit of the doubt, I'll say it took half the bag, so $1.50

so that meal came out to about 10.20... This is a roast chicken dinner, where everyone eats a reasonable portion, and EVERYTHING (except the sour cream) is organic or local. I consider this one of our more expensive meals that we eat!

Pasta and sauce is a GREAT example of food that is super cheap to make and healthy (i make fresh pasta and cut it with spaghetti squash for the adults), homemade pizza - not the cheapest, but i love the control over ingredients... definitely cheaper to make at home... i bake pita bread, i make my sauce from fresh tomatoes (not the cheapest option, but i'm anti can these days) there is not way even with the cheese that I'm paying more than $10 to feed my family that day.

When i want to be cheaper i make veggie chili and serve over lettuce in tortilla bowls, that's a $5 meal... rice and beans with anything; indian spices, Cajun spices, tomatoes, whatever gets you going; cooked with chicken broth for extra nutrition... that's like a $2 meal.

It's not always the easy way out, but I'm 100% sure that I'm feeding my family WAY cheaper than i could ever feed them, two for one coupons or not. I could cut my costs drastically if i bought conventional meat and canned tomatoes too, but even with my organic shopping and pricey meat, i spend only about $80/week on groceries for 2 adults, 2 preteen boys and a baby

CoachReddy

yes they would. absolutely they would.

So how do you propose I make my chicken wrap? From scratch? Slaughter the chickens, process the grains for my tortilla. Make the cheese? Would that make it "healthier"?

I think he'd want you to buy the ingredients from Trader Joe's so they don't have scary things like "xantham gum" in them. Oh, wait, a lot of the "all natural" stuff has that. Well, maybe he wants you to avoid dextrose. Or maybe he thinks that yeast extract is deadly.

Seriously, there are no scary ingredients in the McWrap you won't find in Mission tortillas or Kraft shredded cheese.

I agree completely. questionable chemical additives, partially hydrogenated oils and trans fats are bad no matter where you get them from.

jonnythan

yes they would. absolutely they would.

So how do you propose I make my chicken wrap? From scratch? Slaughter the chickens, process the grains for my tortilla. Make the cheese? Would that make it "healthier"?

haha please see the ingredient list i posted. is there NO way to make that list smaller? no brands of tortillas with fewer ingredients? no chicken that doesn't come with partially hydrogenated soybean oil? no cheese that doesn't come with potato starch in it?

come on.

Jonnythan was the one who pointed out the ingredients that one could use to make their own chicken wrap. Last time I checked the chicken I buy at the store and the shredded cheese I would use, not to mention the tortilla doesn't have crap in it.

Pick out the specific ingredients in the cheese and tortilla McDonald's uses that aren't in the tortillas and cheese you buy at the store, and are dangerous in some way.

2FatToRun

Ridiculous. Stop putting crap in peoples heads. You could probably eat 1 McWrap once a week for the rest of your life and nothing would happen. You ppl act like they are using some alien ingredients that are going to kill you by eating one flipping McWrap lol.

Go home make a home made tortilla, get your cheese, lettuce, tomato, get some chicken and brine it, season it and grill it. Make a wrap and your sauce to it then sit down while you are eating it and write down every single ingredient you used from the the ones it took to make the tortilla to the seasoning you put on the chicken, etc.

Moderation ppl. I get you may be all organic, or 100% clean but if thats the case there is no rhyme or reason to bash other foods that you dont choose to use in your lifestyle. So just stop you look stupid.

I for one am too lazy to raise my own chickens, grow my own veggies, or grains to make tortillas, and def not buying a cow to make cheese. A little more realism and a little less hypothesis goes a long way.