Suicide Warning
Replies
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Okay... but doctors build relationships with the sales reps over the course of years. Most drugs that are presented by the sales rep have already been thoroughly vetted to prove their merits. Sure, the doc is going to take feedback from his patients, but if all things are equal, then the doc is going to prescribe the drugs of the sales rep he likes best first. Then, if his patients don't like it, he will offer them the other guy's drug.
Bias is usually not a concious decision. You know that, right?
You're assuming a strong connection in the mind of the physician between the drug rep and the drug itself. I will agree that the drug rep visits influence the physician to some degree, but it's not because physicians are so dumb and biased that they hand out pills because they like the drug rep. It's more of an issue with familiarity and knowledge. Physicians by and large don't spend an awful lot of time reading literature about new drugs. They learn about new drugs from drug reps who come and tell them all about it and answer questions. The function of the drug reps is to raise awareness of and make the physician feel comfortable with the drug, and that's largely why they prescribe those particular drugs.
Physician comfort with a medication comes from knowledge, awareness, and acceptance in the medical community. Visits from drug reps increase the physician's knowledge and awareness and give the impression of community acceptance. It's not that they just like the reps.
And it's certainly not because they get kickbacks.0 -
What did they prescribe? In the past I have taken Trazadone as a sleep aid. It was initially developed as a psych drug but its very effective as a sleep aid. It caused far fewer side effects and is far less addictive than medications like ambien that were designed and tested for sleep disorders.
I am also prescribed Trazadone for sleep....only side effect I have had is dry sinuses sometimes. I just take it on those days when I feel like I won't be able to settle my mind.0 -
ORRRRRR.... you could start doing MMA style fighting and have someone knock you out every night... Sounds like the effects are similar...0
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I drink this tea by Celestial Seasonings. Puts me right to sleep when I have trouble sleeping. It's called sleepytime tea by Celestial Seasonings. Great stuff!! Try that0
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If you have thyroid issues, I would insist on a thyroid check before you take any other meds. I had a thyroidectomy about 8 years ago and when my thyroid hormone dose is off, my sleep is terrible. If your doctor won't do a thyroid check, get another doctor.0
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Okay... but doctors build relationships with the sales reps over the course of years. Most drugs that are presented by the sales rep have already been thoroughly vetted to prove their merits. Sure, the doc is going to take feedback from his patients, but if all things are equal, then the doc is going to prescribe the drugs of the sales rep he likes best first. Then, if his patients don't like it, he will offer them the other guy's drug.
Bias is usually not a concious decision. You know that, right?
You're assuming a strong connection in the mind of the physician between the drug rep and the drug itself. I will agree that the drug rep visits influence the physician to some degree, but it's not because physicians are so dumb and biased that they hand out pills because they like the drug rep. It's more of an issue with familiarity and knowledge. Physicians by and large don't spend an awful lot of time reading literature about new drugs. They learn about new drugs from drug reps who come and tell them all about it and answer questions. The function of the drug reps is to raise awareness of and make the physician feel comfortable with the drug, and that's largely why they prescribe those particular drugs.
Physician comfort with a medication comes from knowledge, awareness, and acceptance in the medical community. Visits from drug reps increase the physician's knowledge and awareness and give the impression of community acceptance. It's not that they just like the reps.
And it's certainly not because they get kickbacks.
Agreed. But you have to admit that its a very fine line. The drug that is most commonly prescribed is not necessarily the most helpful one on the market. It's the one that has been best promoted by the manufacturer.0 -
I had a doc do that to me once too. Only I wasn't having trouble sleeping I was feeling tired and lethargic and so she prescribed an anti-depressant to give me more energy. Since when do anti-depressants give people energy??
I think most docs are too prescription pushy. I think they get some incentives from the drug companies to push them onto people. It drives me nuts!!
Great catch on your script!0 -
What did they prescribe? In the past I have taken Trazadone as a sleep aid. It was initially developed as a psych drug but its very effective as a sleep aid. It caused far fewer side effects and is far less addictive than medications like ambien that were designed and tested for sleep disorders.
This. Trazodone is one of the least bad sleep aids out there. They even give it to super old people because it's less dangerous than ambien, etc. Also fewer side effects.0 -
Check out http://www.sellingsickness.com and http://www.woodymatters.com. I know the woman who is the owner of those sites. Her husband was prescribed Zoloft for a sleep aid, and killed himself 6 weeks later. She found him hanging in their garage. Now she is an activist for stronger drug laws, and anti-pharma.
It's up to the people to make sure to do the research because unless you have a really good dr., he's not going to tell you. It's all about the $$$.0 -
My doctor has me use seroquel to help me sleep. It is the ONLY thing that has EVER helped me get a full night's sleep. It is actually a med to treat bi-polar disorder, which I'm totally not! I am so glad that she had me try it because I'm finally able to function during the day without falling asleep!0
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I had a doc do that to me once too. Only I wasn't having trouble sleeping I was feeling tired and lethargic and so she prescribed an anti-depressant to give me more energy. Since when do anti-depressants give people energy??
I think most docs are too prescription pushy. I think they get some incentives from the drug companies to push them onto people. It drives me nuts!!
Great catch on your script!
This is pretty much the worst post in the world. The first paragraph is total bunk, the second paragraph is a lie, and the final sentence is an ironic and ridiculous ending considering that the OP's "catch" was completely meaningless.0 -
I think the fighting on this thread is a good cure for insomnia...I mean seriously if you look at the reply's it is going around in circles.
Why count sheep when you can count quotes.0 -
I had been having trouble sleeping for a year and avoided the doctor until about a month ago. My doctor also prescribed me a medication that was originally and typically used for mood disorders. I did some research on the drug and found out that it was pretty common for doctors to use this medication for people who can't sleep, while it was intended for use in a very different way, it also benefitted people who couldn't sleep. I take the medication every night and I've been sleeping like a baby with no side effects other than cotton mouth when I get up in the morning. I have had no adverse effects or feelings of depression. It's possible that the drug you were prescribed may work in the same fashion and could possibly even be the same drug. I'm not depresssed and I've never taken medication for moods or what have you. I've had the same doctor since I was an infant and my whole family sees him. It might be weird but your doc may be onto something
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I think it is pretty normal for doctors to prescribe that type of medicine for sleeping problems especially if your insomnia is caused by your mind racing. I had a bout a few years ago and my doctor gave me Xanax for it. I was petrified of getting addicted so I only took half of a dose when I absolutely needed it (after being in bed for a couple of hours and not falling asleep) and after a few months whatever was causing my insomnia stopped and I didn't need them anymore.0
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Not that I'm aware of.
I've been having trouble sleeping lately and called inquiring about whether the dosage for my thyroid could be off, causing me to wake after a few hours of sleep. I spoke with the nurse, who in turn spoke with the doctor, and she thought a sleep aid might help. So I figured I'd try it or at least have it for weeks where I just can't sleep. I'm definitely not taking it now.
have you tried any of the over the counter sleep aids (tylinol pm, zzzquil?) or perhaps a more natural route such as melitonin? those might be gentler than and anti depresant....it's worth a shot 0 -
I know people are recomending Melatonin, and have had great success with it, but be forewarned even this has side effects.
I for one have been advised not to take it as it can interfere with with my condition/medication.
"Melatonin can influence immune function and it's not known how it affects people with autoimmune conditions such as multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, Crohn's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and type 1 diabetes.
Melatonin supplements may worsen the symptoms in people with depression, so people with depression should only use melatonin under the supervision of a health care provider. Melatonin is broken down by the liver, so people with liver disease should avoid melatonin.
Possible Drug Interactions
Melatonin may interact with the following drugs:
•High blood pressure medication
•Drugs that suppress the immune system, such as cyclosporine
•Antidepressant medication
•Corticosteroids (used for inflammatory conditions such as arthritis)
•Benzodiazepines, such as diazepam (Valium), and other drugs that cause sedation
•Herbs that cause sleepiness or drowsiness, such as kava kava and valerian
•The herb St. John's wort "
I did take trazadone (half the starter dose when needed) no ill side effects back then,
I will mention that I now take benadryl (or generic equivalent), as per recomended by my dr...I don't think she gets a kickback
edit to add: talk to your dr, ask questions and decide from there what will work best for you.0 -
Trazadone is actually one of the most common medications used for insomnia. What your doctor is probably concerned about is the fact that insomnia can cause many health problems. It can actually lead to depression. So that being said just because it is given for depression to does not mean you are depressed or will become depressed.
Of course whenever you can avoid taking medication for something, without ultimately harming your body, is good.
Sometimes taking a medication and modifying your sleep behavior before bed can allow your body time to get back in sync.
Good luck with whatever you decide!0 -
I had been trying to quit smoking many years ago and my doctor (whom I refer to as a drug dealer) prescribed me Zyban. Turns out that it was originally developed as an antidepressant and they discovered one of the side effects was that it appeared to reduce the urge for nicotine. I tried it for a while but after sitting at work like a zombie for a month I stopped taking it. In hindsight, it's as if the drug manufacturer said "Hey. How can we sell more of this stuff? Seems to help smokers? Great! Let's give a kickback to all the doctors who can sell it as a smoking cessation tool".
In the end, I discovered the best way to get off an addictive drug (nicotine) was *not* by using other drugs. (Quitting "cold turkey" has the highest success rate despite what the drug companies lead you to believe). The drug companies have a history of "buying" their way into doctor's offices, research programs and even government just to sell their products.
My point (yes I have one ) is that it's good to check out all options before hopping onto the drug du jour. 0 -
Okay... but doctors build relationships with the sales reps over the course of years. Most drugs that are presented by the sales rep have already been thoroughly vetted to prove their merits. Sure, the doc is going to take feedback from his patients, but if all things are equal, then the doc is going to prescribe the drugs of the sales rep he likes best first. Then, if his patients don't like it, he will offer them the other guy's drug.
Bias is usually not a concious decision. You know that, right?
You're assuming a strong connection in the mind of the physician between the drug rep and the drug itself. I will agree that the drug rep visits influence the physician to some degree, but it's not because physicians are so dumb and biased that they hand out pills because they like the drug rep. It's more of an issue with familiarity and knowledge. Physicians by and large don't spend an awful lot of time reading literature about new drugs. They learn about new drugs from drug reps who come and tell them all about it and answer questions. The function of the drug reps is to raise awareness of and make the physician feel comfortable with the drug, and that's largely why they prescribe those particular drugs.
Physician comfort with a medication comes from knowledge, awareness, and acceptance in the medical community. Visits from drug reps increase the physician's knowledge and awareness and give the impression of community acceptance. It's not that they just like the reps.
And it's certainly not because they get kickbacks.
^^ Truth in this. Drug reps do provide doctors with lunches - true, but they discuss the ins and outs of the drug and answer the doctors questions. The doctors I worked for would even request the reps to come in to discuss different things about the drugs to see if it was a common problem/solution and such. The doctors I worked for prescribed the best drug for the patients condition. If there are two similar drugs, they would probably more than not prescribe the one that they knew more about and felt comfortable prescribing. The doctors do not want to be in a medical lawsuit for giving the wrong drugs out.0 -
Check out http://www.sellingsickness.com and http://www.woodymatters.com. I know the woman who is the owner of those sites. Her husband was prescribed Zoloft for a sleep aid, and killed himself 6 weeks later. She found him hanging in their garage. Now she is an activist for stronger drug laws, and anti-pharma.
It's up to the people to make sure to do the research because unless you have a really good dr., he's not going to tell you. It's all about the $$$.
^^^^^^THIS^^^^ Yep--like I said, we all need learn about these powerful chemicals that are being prescribed like candy. We need to learn enough to protect ourselves and our families. http://www.cchrint.org/0 -
Okay... but doctors build relationships with the sales reps over the course of years. Most drugs that are presented by the sales rep have already been thoroughly vetted to prove their merits. Sure, the doc is going to take feedback from his patients, but if all things are equal, then the doc is going to prescribe the drugs of the sales rep he likes best first. Then, if his patients don't like it, he will offer them the other guy's drug.
Bias is usually not a concious decision. You know that, right?
You're assuming a strong connection in the mind of the physician between the drug rep and the drug itself. I will agree that the drug rep visits influence the physician to some degree, but it's not because physicians are so dumb and biased that they hand out pills because they like the drug rep. It's more of an issue with familiarity and knowledge. Physicians by and large don't spend an awful lot of time reading literature about new drugs. They learn about new drugs from drug reps who come and tell them all about it and answer questions. The function of the drug reps is to raise awareness of and make the physician feel comfortable with the drug, and that's largely why they prescribe those particular drugs.
Physician comfort with a medication comes from knowledge, awareness, and acceptance in the medical community. Visits from drug reps increase the physician's knowledge and awareness and give the impression of community acceptance. It's not that they just like the reps.
And it's certainly not because they get kickbacks.
^^ Truth in this. Drug reps do provide doctors with lunches - true, but they discuss the ins and outs of the drug and answer the doctors questions. The doctors I worked for would even request the reps to come in to discuss different things about the drugs to see if it was a common problem/solution and such. The doctors I worked for prescribed the best drug for the patients condition. If there are two similar drugs, they would probably more than not prescribe the one that they knew more about and felt comfortable prescribing. The doctors do not want to be in a medical lawsuit for giving the wrong drugs out.
Not all Doctors are going to be the same. You will have some with morals, some without. I have met both types, and been prescribed worthless crap many times...mind you, this was usually when dealing with medical professionals via Army hospitals.
- I had one Doctor prescribe an anti depressant and tranquilizer to my 3 YEAR OLD SON, because he had a tantrum in her office over something stupid. 3 year old toddlers tend to do that, lady.0 -
What did they prescribe? In the past I have taken Trazadone as a sleep aid. It was initially developed as a psych drug but its very effective as a sleep aid. It caused far fewer side effects and is far less addictive than medications like ambien that were designed and tested for sleep disorders.
I took Trazadone in combination with another medication, to help with my chronic migraines at one point. And yes, it's a VERY effective sleep aid. When I first started it, I had to take it 3 times a day. During the day I could barely keep my eyes open. They eventually told me to just take it at night. Best sleep of my life! Now that I'm no longer on it, I sleep just fine, just not as well as I did while I was on it. Dr's stopped using it as a drug for depression because they realized it made people too sleepy.
It's just that different drugs can be used for different ailments even if they were originally created to treat something else. I've taken medications with a suicide warning, but I'm still here and haven't made any attempts at changing that!0 -
they do get benefits from drug companies for this type of thing.
Oh yeah? You sure about that?
The amount of ignorance and BS in this thread is horrifying. People seem to pretty much believe anything they want to believe.
I'm absolutely with you. I thought my feelings lastnight were from being overtired. I am sorry I came back to this thread. It's no wonder treatment plans don't work, if there is no compliance with the plan.
For those who believe the provider is taking kickbacks for prescribing trazadone, even if kickbacks were still occurring in this day and age, which of the many companies that produce trazadone would be paying? It doesn't make good business sense. If 7 companies make the drug in a generic form, why would any one of them pay a physician to prescribe a really cheap drug when it would not be known which brand of trazadone would be dispensed from the pharmacy.
That's where if anywhere someone should suspect kickbacks could still possibly enter this equation (and I am not saying it is). If I were an exec trying to make sur emy product was being utilized more than any other in a flooded market, I would work with all of the local pharmacies to make sure that I was their contract manufacturer for that pill.
This whole thread makes me shake my head and wonder at how humanity could have come as far as it has. Seriously, if you are not a licensed provider, don't dispense medical advice. No two people are exactly alike. What works for you may be dangerous for someone else. You don't know history and underlying conditions.
Furthermore, just because something is all natural doesn't mean it is necessarily good for you either. Same principle as above applies. There could be interactions with other meds that the OP is on. There could be side effects. The OP may have renal or haptic issues that would affect the clearance of the drugs you are recommending that may result in adverse outcomes if these things are taken.0 -
OBVIOUSLY OFF TOPIC BUT:
Most of us in healthcare are here because we legitimately want to help people be well--obviously there are sleazy Drs, but they are the minority, and they end up being the "don't practice like that guy" example for the rest of us who don't suck.
Yes, sometimes reps buy us lunch, and I go to every drug rep dinner I can make it to, but I can honestly say it hasn't affected my prescribing one bit. The only meds with the budget for dinners are new ones, and they are the most expensive. Hence, insurance coverage is slim to none, and if your insurance won't cover it, I'm not going to waste my time prescribing it. At those dinners, however, I learn a lot, plus it's a great chance for me to network with other providers in town, thus allowing me to make better referrals for the patients I serve.
It's pretty annoying that I bust my *kitten* 60 hrs a wk trying to take care of people, not to mention the $100 grand in student loans I racked up to get here, only to be vilified by ignorant generalizations.0 -
I know people are recomending Melatonin, and have had great success with it, but be forewarned even this has side effects.
I for one have been advised not to take it as it can interfere with with my condition/medication.
"Melatonin can influence immune function and it's not known how it affects people with autoimmune conditions such as multiple sclerosis, psoriasis, Crohn's disease, rheumatoid arthritis, lupus, and type 1 diabetes.
Melatonin supplements may worsen the symptoms in people with depression, so people with depression should only use melatonin under the supervision of a health care provider. Melatonin is broken down by the liver, so people with liver disease should avoid melatonin.
Possible Drug Interactions
Melatonin may interact with the following drugs:
•High blood pressure medication
•Drugs that suppress the immune system, such as cyclosporine
•Antidepressant medication
•Corticosteroids (used for inflammatory conditions such as arthritis)
•Benzodiazepines, such as diazepam (Valium), and other drugs that cause sedation
•Herbs that cause sleepiness or drowsiness, such as kava kava and valerian
•The herb St. John's wort "
I did take trazadone (half the starter dose when needed) no ill side effects back then,
I will mention that I now take benadryl (or generic equivalent), as per recomended by my dr...I don't think she gets a kickback
edit to add: talk to your dr, ask questions and decide from there what will work best for you.
This is really interesting to me because I have autoimmune issues. Where did the info come from?0 -
they do get benefits from drug companies for this type of thing.
Oh yeah? You sure about that?
The amount of ignorance and BS in this thread is horrifying. People seem to pretty much believe anything they want to believe.
Unfortunately many people seek out information that bolsters whatever fear they've decided to have, while avoiding information that would show that the fear is either completely invalid or disproportionate to the situation. Sigh.
Drug reps leave gifts, buy meals for Dr offices, and all kinds of things just so the doctor will prescribe their brand of pharmaceuticals. That's for all their products, not just the latest and greatest. Even if the product has gone generic, the company that created the formula gets a portion of the sales for all generics for up to 7 years after the generic has been authorized. This is a pretty common practice with the medical community and Big Pharma.
OK. I am sheltered from this as we have strict rules about out contracting and receiving of gifts, etc. So, don't generalize.
It's a matter of doing business, anywhere in many fields. Many of these company reps work on commission, and if they are hungry, they will do what they can to get their foot in the door. I still get people who want to sell me bath wipes, toothbrushes, chairs, etc come in and offer to bring a lunch in. I have to decline. I know it happens in other fields than medicine as well. The companies can write the lunches and give-aways off on thei taxes. It's not isolated to pharmacy.0 -
OBVIOUSLY OFF TOPIC BUT:
Most of us in healthcare are here because we legitimately want to help people be well--obviously there are sleazy Drs, but they are the minority, and they end up being the "don't practice like that guy" example for the rest of us who don't suck.
Yes, sometimes reps buy us lunch, and I go to every drug rep dinner I can make it to, but I can honestly say it hasn't affected my prescribing one bit. The only meds with the budget for dinners are new ones, and they are the most expensive. Hence, insurance coverage is slim to none, and if your insurance won't cover it, I'm not going to waste my time prescribing it. At those dinners, however, I learn a lot, plus it's a great chance for me to network with other providers in town, thus allowing me to make better referrals for the patients I serve.
It's pretty annoying that I bust my *kitten* 60 hrs a wk trying to take care of people, not to mention the $100 grand in student loans I racked up to get here, only to be vilified by ignorant generalizations.
Look towards your sleazy counterparts, not us. I am speaking from my personal experience with health care my entire life. Maybe I am unlucky, but I have met too many "Here is a prescription, just shut up" type of Doctors. I have only been able to trust one, and that was in Germany, not the States.0 -
Drug reps leave gifts, buy meals for Dr offices, and all kinds of things just so the doctor will prescribe their brand of pharmaceuticals. That's for all their products, not just the latest and greatest. Even if the product has gone generic, the company that created the formula gets a portion of the sales for all generics for up to 7 years after the generic has been authorized. This is a pretty common practice with the medical community and Big Pharma.
Thank you for illustrating my point. Free meal = doctors in thrall to a drug company. Yup. That's completely reasonable. :laugh:
Well if someone selling anything bought you lunch, wouldn't you be more inclined to recommend their product to your friends, family members, and co-workers. Same difference.
Not really. Do you think you can buy my integrity for a $10 lunch? Not to mention that their competition will be in the next week with a similar lunch. The lunch is a nicety brought in to get people in to hear the pitch.
The product needs to sell itself, or the rep has to be a smooth talker and do a great job selling their product in order for me to be convinced that it's something I have a need for, and that they meet all of my needs at the lowest price in order for me to consider purchasing the good sor services.0 -
Drug reps leave gifts, buy meals for Dr offices, and all kinds of things just so the doctor will prescribe their brand of pharmaceuticals. That's for all their products, not just the latest and greatest. Even if the product has gone generic, the company that created the formula gets a portion of the sales for all generics for up to 7 years after the generic has been authorized. This is a pretty common practice with the medical community and Big Pharma.
Thank you for illustrating my point. Free meal = doctors in thrall to a drug company. Yup. That's completely reasonable. :laugh:
Well if someone selling anything bought you lunch, wouldn't you be more inclined to recommend their product to your friends, family members, and co-workers. Same difference.
Not really. Do you think you can buy my integrity for a $10 lunch? Not to mention that their competition will be in the next week with a similar lunch. The lunch is a nicety brought in to get people in to hear the pitch.
The product needs to sell itself, or the rep has to be a smooth talker and do a great job selling their product in order for me to be convinced that it's something I have a need for, and that they meet all of my needs at the lowest price in order for me to consider purchasing the good sor services.
This is your moral standard, but many people WILL shell out integrity for cash...Are you blind? Have you seen this country?0 -
They gave my husband trazadone to try to help him sleep and he became horrible! He was a zombie within like 10 15 minutes of taking it and would be horrible towards me! I was pregnant at the time and cried all the time because of the things he was saying to me that he NEVER would have other wise. I've had a female friend recently have a bad experience with it as well, and our neighbor started sleep walking once he started the medication. I would use trazadone as a last ditch option for helping with sleep. It can change your mood and actions dramatically
Different meds are different for different people. I had no trouble taking Trazadone. About 10-15 min after taking them I just went to sleep. I didn't sleep walk, didn't treat anyone horribly, or anything. Not every medicine is for everyone, but not everyone has a bad experience either.0
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