Running. An avoidance behavior?
Replies
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A marathon was started because some French aristocrat wanted to celebrate a Greek messenger named Pheidippides. So basically, rather than celebrating the actual soldiers for fighting in The Battle of Marathon they celebrate some messenger who runs 28 miles away from the battle only to collapse and die a failure and a coward.
dude, learn your history... he ran a hell of a lot more than that, and wasn't "running away from the battle" and was NOT labelled a failure and a coward.
http://www.lakepowell.net/marathon.html
The Role of Phidippides
The Athens, vastly outnumbered, desperately needed the help of Sparta's military base to help fend off the attack. Time was short, so the Athenian generals send Phidippides (or Philippides) a professional runner to Sparta to ask for help. The 140 mile course was very mountainous and rugged. Phidippides ran the course in about 36 hours. Sparta agreed to help but said they would not take the field until the moon was full due to religious laws. This would leave the Athenians alone to fight the Persian Army. Phidippides ran back to Athens (another 140 miles!) with the disappointing news. Immediately, the small Athenian Army (including Phidippedes) marched to the plains of Marathon to prepare for battle.
The Battle of Marathon
The Athenian Army was outnumbered 4 to 1 but they launched a surprise offensive thrust which at the time appeared suicidal. But by day's end, 6400 Persian bodies lay dead on the field while only 192 Athenians had been killed. The surviving Persians fled to sea and headed south to Athens where they hoped to attack the city before the Greek Army could re-assemble there.
Phidippides was again called upon to run to Athens (26 miles away) to carry the news of the victory and the warning about the approaching Persian ships. Despite his fatigue after his recent run to Sparta and back and having fought all morning in heavy armor, Phidippides rose to the challenge. Pushing himself past normal limits of human endurance, the reached Athens in perhaps 3 hours, delivered his message and then died shortly thereafter from exhaustion.
Ok. Perhaps he wasn't a failure but he still had to be the one to run and find 'real men' to be able to fight his battles.
so, real men don't run in your opinion?????? oh, and it was his "assignment", not like he chose to do it
I think 'real men' do plenty of things. But I would say that running certainly takes away someone's manlihood bit by bit.
Furthermore, I'm sure they gave Phidippides that assignment for a reason.
And it wasn't his superior fighting skills.0 -
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression-and-exercise/MH00043
summary: exercise can help with depression...the form of exercise is less important than just the fact that you moved...so lift, run, garden
http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-a-z/E/exercise-mental-health/
essentially says that exercise is important and that the type of exercise you do is best determine by what works for you, your goals, your family, what your enjoy and what you will keep doing....for some
3. Exercise Regularly
Thirty minutes of brisk aerobic exercising--such as running, swimming or bicycling--has been known to relieve most mild forms of depression. In the most immediate sense, it provides an outlet for negative emotions, allowing you to "burn off" feelings of anger or frustration in a positive way. On a more general level, it increases your energy and helps you to feel better about yourself. Studies have shown that regular exercise not only relieves mild symptoms of depression, but makes it less likely that they will come back. Regular exercise is less effective for relieving more serious forms of depression, but can still be helpful in conjunction with formal types of therapy.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13224-relieve-depression/#ixzz2Tqt0IZQu
The point is, some people can relieve stress, depression etc by running. The fact that you feel that you are avoiding your problems is personal to you. I feel no extra personal strength from lifting. I feel more in touch with my spiritual side after a long run, and I have thought through my problems when I run. I find I cannot escapte from my life when I run but rather that I have to face it in my only peaceful time in my life. I do sometimes tune out. I do sometimes choose to focus on the silly songs on my playlist etc but if things are tough in my daily life running is when I sort it out. I do not have that same sense of focus when I lift or strength train, I am too busy counting reps, making sure my form is correct etc...focusing on differnt things so I do not face my issues in the same way.
To each thier own...it is ok if running is not the end all be all for you...and it is equally ok that I feel differently...exercise is the key.0 -
Homo erectus ran the equivalent of marathons to catch food. http://cavepeopleandstuff.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/running-is-bad-for-you-because-what/ the history (and pre-history) of long distance running goes back a couple of million years further than the event mentioned in the OP
a) we evolved to be long distance runners before we evolved the ability to use fire or haft stone blades onto sticks to make spears. Its in our genes. I don't see how long distance running can be bad for humans. This is not the only form of exercise human ancestors engaged in, but I don't see how it can be bad for us.
b) it's not running away from problems, it's running towards a solution, i.e. catching an animal so you can have something to eat. You get it in response to all kinds of strenuous exercise, and I'd rather be an exercise junkie than a couch potato.
c) the endorphin response is a good thing, it evolved to enable our bodies to cope with stressful physical activity, including but not limited to running long distances.0 -
When I started running I was stressed out all the time, on High cholestoral medication, high blood pressure meds, and anti-depressent drugs. Since Ive been an avid runner I am on no drugs other than caffeine. Sure when I run my problems go away but when Im done there still there and I have the mental energy to deal with them and I do not feel too overwhelmed like I want to run and hide. Now everything you said could be said the same of people of fitness and or profession in any aspect, runners, weight lifters professional athletes, the list is endless.0
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When a woman can walk briskly for half an hour+, she has achieved cardio fitness?Calling lungs courageous is poetic, but dumb.
I still have yet to see anything but pretty words from people who disagree with this post. No studies yet. Funny, that...
Fine if I have to be the guy that puts up for all the runner's out there, there is one peer reviewed and Journal-published piece of work[1]. They SPECIFICALLY mention jogging about five times in the four page paper.
[1]: http://www.lhj.com/health/fitness/whats-so-great-about-cardio/
huh.
IT WAS PUBLISHED IN A JOURNAL.0 -
I"m still giggling at the mental image of rats being forced to do dead lifts with tiny barbells. LOL.0
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:huh:0
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I'm trying to start running. I actually just ran yesterday for the first time in 15 years. I lift. I also box.
But, I prefer to walk most days...
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I had a really, really good run yesterday.
From the cops.0 -
When a woman can walk briskly for half an hour+, she has achieved cardio fitness?Calling lungs courageous is poetic, but dumb.
I still have yet to see anything but pretty words from people who disagree with this post. No studies yet. Funny, that...
Fine if I have to be the guy that puts up for all the runner's out there, there is one peer reviewed and Journal-published piece of work[1]. They SPECIFICALLY mention jogging about five times in the four page paper.
[1]: http://www.lhj.com/health/fitness/whats-so-great-about-cardio/
huh.
IT WAS PUBLISHED IN A JOURNAL.
I have a journal.0 -
Homo erectus ran the equivalent of marathons to catch food. http://cavepeopleandstuff.wordpress.com/2013/05/16/running-is-bad-for-you-because-what/ the history (and pre-history) of long distance running goes back a couple of million years further than the event mentioned in the OP
a) we evolved to be long distance runners before we evolved the ability to use fire or haft stone blades onto sticks to make spears. Its in our genes. I don't see how long distance running can be bad for humans. This is not the only form of exercise human ancestors engaged in, but I don't see how it can be bad for us.
b) it's not running away from problems, it's running towards a solution, i.e. catching an animal so you can have something to eat. You get it in response to all kinds of strenuous exercise, and I'd rather be an exercise junkie than a couch potato.
c) the endorphin response is a good thing, it evolved to enable our bodies to cope with stressful physical activity, including but not limited to running long distances.
You had me at "Homo" and "erectus"
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I'm sorry but this sounds stupid. IDK about other people... or mice... but withdrawal from running is not something I deal with. I don't run to get away from my problems. I don't lift to get away from my problems. Because no matter what I'm doing at the gym, when I come back, my problem will still be there. I have always been a no nonsense kidn of person. I was like that when I was fat and I'm still like that now that I am fitter. If I have a problem, I figure it out. Exercise is not going to make it all sunshine and rainbows. I'm not more assertive because I lift. I'm stronger because I lift but thats about it. I take care of the **** I need to take care of and then I go work out. I have one goal and one goal only when I'm running and lifting: to look hot. Everyone and everything else can kick rocks until I'm done taking care of my workout for the day.
Really really stupid post.
ETA: I don't need studies to back up my point because I am talking about my experience and my experience only. TBH the OP's post of journal articles means absolutely nothing to me becase I can't relate.0 -
This pug is running on a treadmill. Your argument is invalid. :flowerforyou:0 -
I have a journal.
Hm. Show me?0 -
What utter tosh.
Just goes to show that there are no limits to man's desperate need to splinter into groups and argue that their group is better.0 -
I do both. Lifting makes me feel like I'm 'smashing' stuff and that's good if I'm stressed.
Running lets me think and let go of stuff, solve problems and enjoy the peace of nature, away from people and smelly gyms.
It's all good!0 -
Come on, Burt! Use the interwebz wording: Pics or it didn't happen. :laugh:I have a journal.
Hm. Show me?0 -
A marathon was started because some French aristocrat wanted to celebrate a Greek messenger named Pheidippides. So basically, rather than celebrating the actual soldiers for fighting in The Battle of Marathon they celebrate some messenger who runs 28 miles away from the battle only to collapse and die a failure and a coward.
dude, learn your history... he ran a hell of a lot more than that, and wasn't "running away from the battle" and was NOT labelled a failure and a coward.
http://www.lakepowell.net/marathon.html
The Role of Phidippides
The Athens, vastly outnumbered, desperately needed the help of Sparta's military base to help fend off the attack. Time was short, so the Athenian generals send Phidippides (or Philippides) a professional runner to Sparta to ask for help. The 140 mile course was very mountainous and rugged. Phidippides ran the course in about 36 hours. Sparta agreed to help but said they would not take the field until the moon was full due to religious laws. This would leave the Athenians alone to fight the Persian Army. Phidippides ran back to Athens (another 140 miles!) with the disappointing news. Immediately, the small Athenian Army (including Phidippedes) marched to the plains of Marathon to prepare for battle.
The Battle of Marathon
The Athenian Army was outnumbered 4 to 1 but they launched a surprise offensive thrust which at the time appeared suicidal. But by day's end, 6400 Persian bodies lay dead on the field while only 192 Athenians had been killed. The surviving Persians fled to sea and headed south to Athens where they hoped to attack the city before the Greek Army could re-assemble there.
Phidippides was again called upon to run to Athens (26 miles away) to carry the news of the victory and the warning about the approaching Persian ships. Despite his fatigue after his recent run to Sparta and back and having fought all morning in heavy armor, Phidippides rose to the challenge. Pushing himself past normal limits of human endurance, the reached Athens in perhaps 3 hours, delivered his message and then died shortly thereafter from exhaustion.
Ok. Perhaps he wasn't a failure but he still had to be the one to run and find 'real men' to be able to fight his battles.
Maybe he could have fought and was man enough but was sent to find "MORE men" not "real men" cause sometimes in battle it is indeed a numbers game.0 -
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression-and-exercise/MH00043
summary: exercise can help with depression...the form of exercise is less important than just the fact that you moved...so lift, run, garden
http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-a-z/E/exercise-mental-health/
essentially says that exercise is important and that the type of exercise you do is best determine by what works for you, your goals, your family, what your enjoy and what you will keep doing....for some
3. Exercise Regularly
Thirty minutes of brisk aerobic exercising--such as running, swimming or bicycling--has been known to relieve most mild forms of depression. In the most immediate sense, it provides an outlet for negative emotions, allowing you to "burn off" feelings of anger or frustration in a positive way. On a more general level, it increases your energy and helps you to feel better about yourself. Studies have shown that regular exercise not only relieves mild symptoms of depression, but makes it less likely that they will come back. Regular exercise is less effective for relieving more serious forms of depression, but can still be helpful in conjunction with formal types of therapy.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13224-relieve-depression/#ixzz2Tqt0IZQu
The point is, some people can relieve stress, depression etc by running. The fact that you feel that you are avoiding your problems is personal to you. I feel no extra personal strength from lifting. I feel more in touch with my spiritual side after a long run, and I have thought through my problems when I run. I find I cannot escapte from my life when I run but rather that I have to face it in my only peaceful time in my life. I do sometimes tune out. I do sometimes choose to focus on the silly songs on my playlist etc but if things are tough in my daily life running is when I sort it out. I do not have that same sense of focus when I lift or strength train, I am too busy counting reps, making sure my form is correct etc...focusing on differnt things so I do not face my issues in the same way.
To each thier own...it is ok if running is not the end all be all for you...and it is equally ok that I feel differently...exercise is the key.
Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather someone run than sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. I just think that society today has a very unhealthy addiction to it. Look at the Nike running ads! Look at running shoes! You don't see Nike commercials of people lifting up rocks or pushing cars or moving barrels of hay.
And just for the record if you think running is aiding your weight loss you're wrong!
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/conditioning_is_a_sham
'Running 5 miles would be an example of a great way to avoid addressing the issue. '0 -
I'm sorry but this sounds stupid. IDK about other people... or mice... but withdrawal from running is not something I deal with. I don't run to get away from my problems. I don't lift to get away from my problems. Because no matter what I'm doing at the gym, when I come back, my problem will still be there. I have always been a no nonsense kidn of person. I was like that when I was fat and I'm still like that now that I am fitter. If I have a problem, I figure it out. Exercise is not going to make it all sunshine and rainbows. I'm not more assertive because I lift. I'm stronger because I lift but thats about it. I take care of the **** I need to take care of and then I go work out. I have one goal and one goal only when I'm running and lifting: to look hot. Everyone and everything else can kick rocks until I'm done taking care of my workout for the day.
Really really stupid post.
ETA: I don't need studies to back up my point because I am talking about my experience and my experience only. TBH the OP's post of journal articles means absolutely nothing to me becase I can't relate.
I agree. This post is stupid.0 -
Don't get me wrong. I love running. I used to run all the time. I was that guy that used to spend an hour on the treadmill everyday hoping to see results. But as I started lifting a realization occurred to me. Weightlifting puts you up close and gives the feeling of having personal close combat with your problems. Running on the other hand seems to be more about running away from your problems rather than facing them head on.
I mean look at marathon training for example. A marathon was started because some French aristocrat wanted to celebrate a Greek messenger named Pheidippides. So basically, rather than celebrating the actual soldiers for fighting in The Battle of Marathon they celebrate some messenger who runs 28 miles away from the battle only to collapse and die a failure and a coward.
The fact of the matter is that since I have started lifting I've been more focused and more determined to tackle my problems head on. I'm more assertive, more confident, and happier. In the past when I was really stressed out I would go for a run just to eliminate the stress but my problems were still there when I returned. Running was just a temporary escape from the problems of reality. Almost like how some would describe their drug use.
In fact did you know that studies have actually shown that running (particularly stationary running) causes withdrawal symptoms in mice?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19634951
'There was a direct relationship between the intensity of running and the severity of withdrawal symptoms.'
'These findings support the hypothesis that exercise-induced increases in endogenous opioid peptides act in a manner similar to chronic administration of opiate drugs.'
They didn't do a study involving mice with weight lifting but I'm sure they would've seen different results.
Bottom line is that I would encourage each and every one of you to take a good long think about the person you want to become. Do you want to be the person that runs away from his/her problems or would you rather be the type of person that stands their ground and deals with their problems? I just can't support running on the hamster wheel and running outside is just a larger rat race because we always end up right back where we started and all our problems are still there waiting for us. We can be a hero like Hercules who faced his foes head on or we can be like Pheidippides and run away from our problems till it kills us.
The choice is yours . . .
Ankle biter. Dimming another's candle doesnt make yours any brighter.0 -
If you break it down to the basics weight loss is about calories in vs. calories out. Running burns calories. As long as it's being done properly (with a proper and controlled diet), you can then burn more calories than you are taking in. Your argument is flawed.And just for the record if you think running is aiding your weight loss you're wrong!0 -
I run three times a week and train brazilian jiujitsu three times a week. Two of the worst exercises I could possibly have chosen for myself if the goal is to "run away" from something, as they both involve sustained periods of significant physical discomfort and a LOT of self-directed goal-setting (something I am averse to as a procrastinator - would never "run away" to something requiring planning). I also find that they both have a lot of practical use in life. I have much better balance and am much better using my legs and feet. Plus I am no longer out of breath running after the bus to commute home. Even if I don't catch the bus, I would have no problem just continuing the run all the way home now. When one of my sneaky cats nestles herself up between my wife and I in bed, I find myself quite comfortable contorting my body in strange ways. I also am able to picture the various ways I could render people who annoy me unconscious if it came down to it.
Lifting is surely a good thing to do and I do it when I can, but I find it of dubious value to be able to lift a heavy rod to my waist and/or to be able to swing a glorified panini press over my head repeatedly. Those things don't really come up often in real life. Unless there is some sort of device about which I am unaware, there's no way for me to lift a rod a bunch of times and then suddenly arrive somewhere 5 miles away. Nor is there any obvious way to use my panini-press-snatching skill to defend myself. I am not sure when it would be of practical value to crouch low while stationary. I mean, sure, I guess 12 month old babies find great use in that skill, but as an adult I don't often need to be in a crouched position for long periods of time.0 -
Don't get me wrong. I love running. I used to run all the time. I was that guy that used to spend an hour on the treadmill everyday hoping to see results. But as I started lifting a realization occurred to me. Weightlifting puts you up close and gives the feeling of having personal close combat with your problems. Running on the other hand seems to be more about running away from your problems rather than facing them head on.
I mean look at marathon training for example. A marathon was started because some French aristocrat wanted to celebrate a Greek messenger named Pheidippides. So basically, rather than celebrating the actual soldiers for fighting in The Battle of Marathon they celebrate some messenger who runs 28 miles away from the battle only to collapse and die a failure and a coward.
The fact of the matter is that since I have started lifting I've been more focused and more determined to tackle my problems head on. I'm more assertive, more confident, and happier. In the past when I was really stressed out I would go for a run just to eliminate the stress but my problems were still there when I returned. Running was just a temporary escape from the problems of reality. Almost like how some would describe their drug use.
In fact did you know that studies have actually shown that running (particularly stationary running) causes withdrawal symptoms in mice?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19634951
'There was a direct relationship between the intensity of running and the severity of withdrawal symptoms.'
'These findings support the hypothesis that exercise-induced increases in endogenous opioid peptides act in a manner similar to chronic administration of opiate drugs.'
They didn't do a study involving mice with weight lifting but I'm sure they would've seen different results.
Bottom line is that I would encourage each and every one of you to take a good long think about the person you want to become. Do you want to be the person that runs away from his/her problems or would you rather be the type of person that stands their ground and deals with their problems? I just can't support running on the hamster wheel and running outside is just a larger rat race because we always end up right back where we started and all our problems are still there waiting for us. We can be a hero like Hercules who faced his foes head on or we can be like Pheidippides and run away from our problems till it kills us.
The choice is yours . . .
^^^^ Dumbest thing I've ever heard.... That is all.0 -
Uhhh. Running or weight lifting, my problems are still there either way. Running makes me feel better and makes me feel like I can handle the stress better, not just take my mind off it.0
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http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression-and-exercise/MH00043
summary: exercise can help with depression...the form of exercise is less important than just the fact that you moved...so lift, run, garden
http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-a-z/E/exercise-mental-health/
essentially says that exercise is important and that the type of exercise you do is best determine by what works for you, your goals, your family, what your enjoy and what you will keep doing....for some
3. Exercise Regularly
Thirty minutes of brisk aerobic exercising--such as running, swimming or bicycling--has been known to relieve most mild forms of depression. In the most immediate sense, it provides an outlet for negative emotions, allowing you to "burn off" feelings of anger or frustration in a positive way. On a more general level, it increases your energy and helps you to feel better about yourself. Studies have shown that regular exercise not only relieves mild symptoms of depression, but makes it less likely that they will come back. Regular exercise is less effective for relieving more serious forms of depression, but can still be helpful in conjunction with formal types of therapy.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13224-relieve-depression/#ixzz2Tqt0IZQu
The point is, some people can relieve stress, depression etc by running. The fact that you feel that you are avoiding your problems is personal to you. I feel no extra personal strength from lifting. I feel more in touch with my spiritual side after a long run, and I have thought through my problems when I run. I find I cannot escapte from my life when I run but rather that I have to face it in my only peaceful time in my life. I do sometimes tune out. I do sometimes choose to focus on the silly songs on my playlist etc but if things are tough in my daily life running is when I sort it out. I do not have that same sense of focus when I lift or strength train, I am too busy counting reps, making sure my form is correct etc...focusing on differnt things so I do not face my issues in the same way.
To each thier own...it is ok if running is not the end all be all for you...and it is equally ok that I feel differently...exercise is the key.
Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather someone run than sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. I just think that society today has a very unhealthy addiction to it. Look at the Nike running ads! Look at running shoes! You don't see Nike commercials of people lifting up rocks or pushing cars or moving barrels of hay.
And just for the record if you think running is aiding your weight loss you're wrong!
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/conditioning_is_a_sham
'Running 5 miles would be an example of a great way to avoid addressing the issue. '
Running aided my weight loss when I first started trying to lose weight 4 years ago, mostly because it helped me burn calories...at my goal weight my diet is important to me to keep me healthy, fuel my running, etc. I do all things now to be healthy, including lift weights...not to be skinnier.0 -
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Damn. Now I need a new avatar.
And nickname.0 -
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/depression-and-exercise/MH00043
summary: exercise can help with depression...the form of exercise is less important than just the fact that you moved...so lift, run, garden
http://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/help-information/mental-health-a-z/E/exercise-mental-health/
essentially says that exercise is important and that the type of exercise you do is best determine by what works for you, your goals, your family, what your enjoy and what you will keep doing....for some
3. Exercise Regularly
Thirty minutes of brisk aerobic exercising--such as running, swimming or bicycling--has been known to relieve most mild forms of depression. In the most immediate sense, it provides an outlet for negative emotions, allowing you to "burn off" feelings of anger or frustration in a positive way. On a more general level, it increases your energy and helps you to feel better about yourself. Studies have shown that regular exercise not only relieves mild symptoms of depression, but makes it less likely that they will come back. Regular exercise is less effective for relieving more serious forms of depression, but can still be helpful in conjunction with formal types of therapy.
Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/13224-relieve-depression/#ixzz2Tqt0IZQu
The point is, some people can relieve stress, depression etc by running. The fact that you feel that you are avoiding your problems is personal to you. I feel no extra personal strength from lifting. I feel more in touch with my spiritual side after a long run, and I have thought through my problems when I run. I find I cannot escapte from my life when I run but rather that I have to face it in my only peaceful time in my life. I do sometimes tune out. I do sometimes choose to focus on the silly songs on my playlist etc but if things are tough in my daily life running is when I sort it out. I do not have that same sense of focus when I lift or strength train, I am too busy counting reps, making sure my form is correct etc...focusing on differnt things so I do not face my issues in the same way.
To each thier own...it is ok if running is not the end all be all for you...and it is equally ok that I feel differently...exercise is the key.
Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather someone run than sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. I just think that society today has a very unhealthy addiction to it. Look at the Nike running ads! Look at running shoes! You don't see Nike commercials of people lifting up rocks or pushing cars or moving barrels of hay.
And just for the record if you think running is aiding your weight loss you're wrong!
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/most_recent/conditioning_is_a_sham
'Running 5 miles would be an example of a great way to avoid addressing the issue. '
So.....you're hurt Nike doesn't have commercials for weightlifters?0 -
Don't get me wrong. I'd much rather someone run than sit on the couch and eat Cheetos. I just think that society today has a very unhealthy addiction to it. Look at the Nike running ads! Look at running shoes! You don't see Nike commercials of people lifting up rocks or pushing cars or moving barrels of hay.
I disagree. I think modern people have a very unhealthy addiction to technology that enables us to get around without walking and running, and technology that eliminates the need to do other physically demanding tasks, and technology that causes us to just sit for hours staring at a screen.
we evolved to run. we evolved to lift and carry heavy things.0
This discussion has been closed.
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