Eating breakfast is making me hungrier

SideSteel

I do agree in some cases that if you skip a meal that it may help you with weight loss yes, however ONLY IF you are staying within your calorie range;

This and the rest of your post are entirely different than your original claim that frequent eating increases thermogenesis.

carchie94

If I eat breakfast, I end up eating more throughout the day. And I feel like I wasted calories, forcing myself to eat. Besides, if I eat before I work out, I end up getting nauseous. So, I don't do it. The earliest meal I eat is brunch. Sometimes. But I usually don't eat until around 2-3 in the afternoon.

When I was doing military workouts at 6 in the morning, there was no way in hell you could eat anything more than a banana before the workout. That was the only time I ate breakfast, because I was up early. But then, I didn't really eat dinner.

I find that not eating breakfast is better for me. During the semester I would swim at 11, run at 12, and eat at 1-2. Worked for me. Now I do Insanity at 12. I don't eat until 1-2.

But what works for me doesn't work for everyone. I refuse to force myself to eat. If I'm not hungry, I won't. Simple as that. When I was staying with my grandparents, I actually had to tell my grandmother to stop making me huge breakfasts (two eggs, four bacon, two toast slathered with butter, orange juice) because I could not force myself to eat that much at 9 in the morning.

Doodlewhopper

yeah........ahhhh just take a quick glance at the pic of the "Dietician:)" Runnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Cheap shot buddy.

DietitianAprilDawn

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies (calories in calories out); however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal and essentially easier to lose weight. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

AbsoluteNG

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies; however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

Thank you for saying something intelligent. I agree that the medical field is always ongoing, with new research in progress, and the ability to recognize this is the difference between a good or bad RD.

On another note at a different comment, I feel it was a cheap shot to point out physical attributes of said Dietitian but I guess it can't be helped since that is the nature of the field. However, it doesn't dictate someone's knowledge. Take NFL coaches as an example. They are so out of shape that I doubt they could run a route if their superbowl career depended on it, but their knowledge of the game is vast and key to winning.


Edit: for grammar and spelling. I blame my mobile device.

pcastagner

I do agree in some cases that if you skip a meal that it may help you with weight loss yes, however ONLY IF you are staying within your calorie range; but a lot of people end up eatting a lot more and potentially out of their calorie range if they do because they end up hungrier. This weight loss technique may not be good with some people with certain health conditions or prone to certain health conditions, such as Type 2 diabetes. When someone is diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes and I see them the first time, about 90 - 95% of the time they are skipping meals. The longer one with Type2 Diabetes waits to eat, the more the body will start putting off more sugar from the liver. Since people with Type 2 diabetes insulin generally isn't working properly and insulin is what brings down the blood sugar, this can send their blood sugar at dangerous levels. Also, people with hypoglycemia shouldn't be skipping meals neither as they should eat more frequently to make sure the blood sugar stays within range. Some studies show that Generally speaking YES it can help with weight loss AND YES from some of the studies i have seen calories in calories out is the balance no matter when it is eatten througout the day and can cause weight loss, but it can have some serious health consequences if not ALL aspects of this lifestyle is foreseen before saying its okay for someone to continue this behavior.
Please look at the below studies:

http://imr.sagepub.com/content/36/4/613.full.pdf+html
http://jn.nutrition.org/content/141/1/144.full
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0091743511003367
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/81/2/388.short
http://www.nature.com/ijo/journal/v31/n4/full/0803456a.html (This study they eliminated anyone on medically related diets )

Fasting 16-18 hours a day HELPS me with adherence. Imagine that. Why? I think about food 6-8 hours a day. The rest of the time, I live life like I've never lived it before. I am in the best shape of my life, mentally and physically.

The things you said earlier in this thread state I am somehow hurting myself, when in fact I have found a way to get fit and stay that way, with less stress on my willpower reserves.

pcastagner

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies (calories in calories out); however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal and essentially easier to lose weight. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

What does "skipping meals" mean, other than not conforming to a cultural norm?

What is normal? Is it 3 meals a day? 6? At what point am I "skipping" a meal? What about midnight snack?

Your info seems old, have you considered some "continuing education"?

ninerbuff

I do agree in some cases that if you skip a meal that it may help you with weight loss yes, however ONLY IF you are staying within your calorie range;

This and the rest of your post are entirely different than your original claim that frequent eating increases thermogenesis.

Well when faced with actual evidence that refutes original claim, then one needs to retract to save face. I've been wrong on the forums before (running a mile vs walking a mile debate) and gracefully admitted I was.

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

ninerbuff

Take NFL coaches as an example. They are so out of shape that I doubt they could run a route if their superbowl career depended on it, but their knowledge of the game is vast and key to winning.

Harbaugh could. He could probably still even throw it. That's why we're winning it all this year!:happy:

A.C.E. Certified Personal and Group Fitness Trainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 28+ years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

DietitianAprilDawn

My main focus in my career as a dietitian,has been on dialysis nutrition AND diabetes education, so I really keep up to date with new information on those topics more than anything. It is good to learn new thing in areas that I haven't focused on in a while. So thanks for fueling me to look at those more up to date things in areas I haven't focused on in a while....

DietitianAprilDawn

Skipping a meal...to me that would be anytime you are awake and you wait over 4 -5 hours to eat AND unless you have a medical condition that would effect you skipping meals (like diabetes) than do whatever ...my main focus as a dietitian is diabetes and dialysis nutrition so my main CEUs are focused on that and I'm way beyond what I need for the past 5 years for CEUs. As you can see as I have posted before that I don't mind learning updated research.

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies (calories in calories out); however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal and essentially easier to lose weight. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

What does "skipping meals" mean, other than not conforming to a cultural norm?

What is normal? Is it 3 meals a day? 6? At what point am I "skipping" a meal? What about midnight snack?

Your info seems old, have you considered some "continuing education"?

pcastagner

Skipping a meal...to me that would be anytime you are awake and you wait over 4 -5 hours to eat AND unless you have a medical condition that would effect you skipping meals (like diabetes) than do whatever ...my main focus as a dietitian is diabetes and dialysis nutrition so my main CEUs are focused on that and I'm way beyond what I need for the past 5 years for CEUs. As you can see as I have posted before that I don't mind learning updated research.

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies (calories in calories out); however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal and essentially easier to lose weight. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

What does "skipping meals" mean, other than not conforming to a cultural norm?

What is normal? Is it 3 meals a day? 6? At what point am I "skipping" a meal? What about midnight snack?

Your info seems old, have you considered some "continuing education"?

Again, the idea of "how often one should eat" is the one in question. So simply stating that not eating every 4-5 hours is "skipping a meal" is assuming the answer whilst exploring the question. You are starting with a conclusion, or rather, a cultural habit, and working from there.





In the future, when commenting on aspects of diet not directly concerning stuff you actually know about, it might be a good idea not to rely on the "appeal to authority" fallacy.

From wiki (not an authority, i know):

Argument from authority (argumentum ad auctoritatem), also authoritative argument and appeal to authority, is an inductive reasoning argument that often takes the form of a statistical syllogism.[1] Although certain classes of argument from authority can constitute strong inductive arguments, the appeal to authority is often applied fallaciously.
Fallacious examples of using the appeal include:
cases where the authority is not a subject-matter expert
cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter
any appeal to authority used in the context of deductive reasoning.
[1][2][3]
In the context of deductive arguments, the appeal to authority is an logical fallacy, though it can be properly used in the context of inductive reasoning. It is deductively fallacious because, while sound deductive arguments are necessarily true, authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise. Though reliable authorities are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons, they can still come to the wrong judgments through error, bias or dishonesty. Thus, the appeal to authority is at best a probabilistic rather absolute argument for establishing facts.

DietitianAprilDawn

1st of all I was responding to a post to someone to help someone out with a question they had out of being nice, cause I love helping people that is why I chose my career 2. I am perfectly able to help people with weight loss as it is a big part of what I do (just not my main focus) and plenty of my patients have been successful at their weight loss plans that were individualized to their specific lifestyle / needs 3. I am always up to learning updated information / research so to the person that pointed it out thanks for prodding me to do more research in that area that I haven't researched in a while, as I normally focus on diabetes and dialysis the past 5 years 4. I am human just like you and everyone else AND we all are not perfect.

Skipping a meal...to me that would be anytime you are awake and you wait over 4 -5 hours to eat AND unless you have a medical condition that would effect you skipping meals (like diabetes) than do whatever ...my main focus as a dietitian is diabetes and dialysis nutrition so my main CEUs are focused on that and I'm way beyond what I need for the past 5 years for CEUs. As you can see as I have posted before that I don't mind learning updated research.

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies (calories in calories out); however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal and essentially easier to lose weight. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

What does "skipping meals" mean, other than not conforming to a cultural norm?

What is normal? Is it 3 meals a day? 6? At what point am I "skipping" a meal? What about midnight snack?

Your info seems old, have you considered some "continuing education"?

Again, the idea of "how often one should eat" is the one in question. So simply stating that not eating every 4-5 hours is "skipping a meal" is assuming the answer whilst exploring the question. You are starting with a conclusion, or rather, a cultural habit, and working from there.





In the future, when commenting on aspects of diet not directly concerning stuff you actually know about, it might be a good idea not to rely on the "appeal to authority" fallacy.

From wiki (not an authority, i know):

Argument from authority (argumentum ad auctoritatem), also authoritative argument and appeal to authority, is an inductive reasoning argument that often takes the form of a statistical syllogism.[1] Although certain classes of argument from authority can constitute strong inductive arguments, the appeal to authority is often applied fallaciously.
Fallacious examples of using the appeal include:
cases where the authority is not a subject-matter expert
cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter
any appeal to authority used in the context of deductive reasoning.
[1][2][3]
In the context of deductive arguments, the appeal to authority is an logical fallacy, though it can be properly used in the context of inductive reasoning. It is deductively fallacious because, while sound deductive arguments are necessarily true, authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise. Though reliable authorities are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons, they can still come to the wrong judgments through error, bias or dishonesty. Thus, the appeal to authority is at best a probabilistic rather absolute argument for establishing facts.

lc52820

Wow, who would've thought the topic of breakfast would create such a stir

Personally, I'm starving in the morning. Breakfast helps me wake up, gives me energy, & puts me in a better mood (which is better for all of my co-workers LOL). If I get hungry between meals, I snack on something healthy (fruit, veggies, yogurt).

When I have small snacks in the morning or afternoon, I'm less ravenous when its lunch or dinner time and I'm less likely to overeat. Snacking an hour before a workout also gives me more energy, especially if I'm running. The important thing for me is keeping track of everything I eat on MFP so that I know where I am with my calories for the day and I don't completely blow it.

pcastagner

1st of all I was responding to a post to someone to help someone out with a question they had out of being nice, cause I love helping people that is why I chose my career 2. I am perfectly able to help people with weight loss as it is a big part of what I do (just not my main focus) and plenty of my patients have been successful at their weight loss plans that were individualized to their specific lifestyle / needs 3. I am always up to learning updated information / research so to the person that pointed it out thanks for prodding me to do more research in that area that I haven't researched in a while, as I normally focus on diabetes and dialysis the past 5 years 4. I am human just like you and everyone else AND we all are not perfect.

Skipping a meal...to me that would be anytime you are awake and you wait over 4 -5 hours to eat AND unless you have a medical condition that would effect you skipping meals (like diabetes) than do whatever ...my main focus as a dietitian is diabetes and dialysis nutrition so my main CEUs are focused on that and I'm way beyond what I need for the past 5 years for CEUs. As you can see as I have posted before that I don't mind learning updated research.

I was orginally taught that eatting more frequently does help you to lose weight and help with burning energy, however I did some more research and found what you were talking about as far as for weight loss in itself to be true in some of the studies (calories in calories out); however eatting frequently does help with satiety for "some" people, which makes it a little easier for "some" people to stay within their calorie goal and essentially easier to lose weight. However, like I mentioned before skipping breakfast AND /OR meals are not necessarily the most healthy for some people with medical conditions and in a lot of those cases I wouldn't recommend skipping meals. Any dietitian will tell you that being a registered dietitian is an ongoing learning process especially since research is constantly changing. Thanks :happy:

What does "skipping meals" mean, other than not conforming to a cultural norm?

What is normal? Is it 3 meals a day? 6? At what point am I "skipping" a meal? What about midnight snack?

Your info seems old, have you considered some "continuing education"?

Again, the idea of "how often one should eat" is the one in question. So simply stating that not eating every 4-5 hours is "skipping a meal" is assuming the answer whilst exploring the question. You are starting with a conclusion, or rather, a cultural habit, and working from there.





In the future, when commenting on aspects of diet not directly concerning stuff you actually know about, it might be a good idea not to rely on the "appeal to authority" fallacy.

From wiki (not an authority, i know):

Argument from authority (argumentum ad auctoritatem), also authoritative argument and appeal to authority, is an inductive reasoning argument that often takes the form of a statistical syllogism.[1] Although certain classes of argument from authority can constitute strong inductive arguments, the appeal to authority is often applied fallaciously.
Fallacious examples of using the appeal include:
cases where the authority is not a subject-matter expert
cases where there is no consensus among experts in the subject matter
any appeal to authority used in the context of deductive reasoning.
[1][2][3]
In the context of deductive arguments, the appeal to authority is an logical fallacy, though it can be properly used in the context of inductive reasoning. It is deductively fallacious because, while sound deductive arguments are necessarily true, authorities are not necessarily correct about judgments related to their field of expertise. Though reliable authorities are correct in judgments related to their area of expertise more often than laypersons, they can still come to the wrong judgments through error, bias or dishonesty. Thus, the appeal to authority is at best a probabilistic rather absolute argument for establishing facts.

Your motives haven't been attacked, merely your logic. Now you seem to have moved on to the "straw man" approach with a side of ad hominem, by implying your motives have been questioned and defending yourself, when in fact you haven't been attacked base on your motives. Is that your intent? Because that would also be illogical. I wouldn't do the same to you, so you can be free to clarify that nobody has questioned your motives, merely your competence, and that was only because you used a classic appeal to authority featuring you as the authority. We realize you are trying to help, but results matter.


Let's be clear for the record. Thermogenesis was NEVER shown or implied to be greater from higher frequency eating, given the same caloric intake. No study, ever, implied or proved that. Yes, many "experts", having misread some studies, concluded erroneously that since eating more increases energy required to process food, eating more OFTEN must result in less efficient processing, therefore could help lose more weight with the same intake. However, there was never any basis for that conclusion, and when it was tested in a countrolled setting on mice, it proved to be a dead end. Since repeating a falsehood can give it an aura of truth, this silliness became "fact" in the minds of some "experts" who relied on other "experts" instead of the source material.


So even ten years ago, there was no basis for this idea that eating many small meals burns more calories than one big one. Actually, I can do a simple, imprecise test by wearing a heart rate monitor and eating 2500 calories in one sitting. It jumps up and stays up for quite some time!

That said, because I am gaining more than I am spending when I eat, thermogenesis really doesn't matter. The whole concept reminds me of a reverse version of the line from catch-22 about losing money on every transaction but making up for it in volume.


This is why I tend to scoff at your whole profession. Clearly a bunch of amateurs on the Internet have done a better job on the theoretical and practical side here.

donald149

If I skip breakfast, my portions are huge at lunch and I'm more likely to eat junk. Whereas if I eat breakfast and simply graze through the day, my portions are smaller and i'm less likely to eat the first thing in front of me.

pcastagner

If I skip breakfast, my portions are huge at lunch and I'm more likely to eat junk. Whereas if I eat breakfast and simply graze through the day, my portions are smaller and i'm less likely to eat the first thing in front of me.

Then you should keep doing that. I do better on leangains style IF, so I should keep doing that.