"You can't build muscle on a calorie deficit"

runfreddyrun

yes, i should edit to say LBM. since it is just the bod pod and not a dexa scan, there is no way to know what comprised that LBM gain.

KarenJanine

Look at it this way, supposing you did make some newby gains and built muscle while eating 1200 cals, this will not last long.

Eating so little your body will soon start looking for energy sources to top up the large deficit needed to keep your vital organs running. Your body will protect your heart, brain and lungs above anything else. Therefore as your BF decreases your body will have to start breaking down your muscle sooner or later to keep you alive. Therefore by continuing to eat at a large deficit you will eventually lose any muscle that you may have built and more. If you are not going to fuel your body correctly then whether or not you gained muscle initially is a moot point in the long term.

Joehenny

It's possible, but only under certain conditions, very rare and definitely not optimal. Also going on a diet and not lifting is the perfect way to atrophy the little muscle you do have.

pinkraynedropjacki

You can build on a deficit. It really is true, don't let anyone say you can't unless you eat more than you should. It's not the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

Joehenny

Why is everyone on this forum on Scooby's nuts?

pinkraynedropjacki

Why is everyone on this forum on Scooby's nuts?

Kinda cause he knows what he's talking about more than other numbnuts on here... just sayin

jimmmer

You can build on a deficit. It really is true, don't let anyone say you can't unless you eat more than you should. It's not the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

He said "fight like the ****ens" - worth watching for that alone!

JeninBelgium

You actually and physically can't build appreciable muscle on a deficit, just like you can't build fat on a deficit. You have to have materials build IYSWIM.

But that doesn't mean you shouldn't lift weights while in a deficit. Why lift?

1. Weight lifting is exercise, and while people fight and argue about how much it burns (answer-no one knows), it will contribute to your calorie deficit in some manner.
2. While you can't build muscle on a deficit, you can build strength and coordination-two good things to have.
3. While you can't build muscle, you can preserve what you already have, what this means is you have to lose less weight to get to a lower body fat percentage-end result is many people are happier with their bodies.

Have you been measuring your arms? Just because the muscle is more defined doesn't mean it is actually bigger. More likely is that as you have lost weight, you have lost fat which makes it more visible. (ie#3) Either that or you took the picture directly after lifting so it is pumped.

I need to find the link of the article on just read on this (from a scientific peer reviewed journal like obesity or sports medicine or similar and it will drive me nuts if I cannot find it so watch this space) which actually studied this it turns out that those who are overweight can build muscle while on a deficit and here is why- while the person is eating less than they need to maintain their weight and thus those calories are not building fat, muscle etc- they also carry with them large stores of calories in the form of fat- those stores of fat can be used as fuel to build muscle if the body needs it to be- but this is very difficult- essentially the person needs to be either strenuously active (ie working in construction, manual labor etc or lifting a lot every day so that the body had a requirement for the muscle (and it turns out that for lifting the amount of weight was also not important- lifting heavy led to better/faster results but those in the study that lifted relatively light but did tons of reps also could build muscle)

the article went on to say that metabolism is not just a build or break-down process ) it is both anabolic and catabolic and thus throughout our day we are all doing a combination of both but on average those losing weight also lose not gain muscle unless they really train/ work hard and that gaining muscle during weight loss is exceptional (ie not often done)

now, I would think that even if you are eating at a deficit and not building muscle strength training will still help to strengthen the muscle you have so that when the fat comes off there is something nice and toned underneath- but I didn't read about that in the article

Joehenny

You can build on a deficit. It really is true, don't let anyone say you can't unless you eat more than you should. It's not the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

A video from 2011 with information that has been dis-proven with peer-reviewed research mult times. Also daily cardio while trying to build muscle and in a caloric deficit LOL gtfoh

jimmmer

You can build on a deficit. It really is true, don't let anyone say you can't unless you eat more than you should. It's not the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

He said "fight like the ****ens" - worth watching for that alone!

Oh really MFP? The name of one of the English Language's most love authors is a swear word now?

jimmmer

You can build on a deficit. It really is true, don't let anyone say you can't unless you eat more than you should. It's not the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

He said "fight like the ****ens" - worth watching for that alone!

Oh really MFP? The name of one of the English Language's most love authors is a swear word now?

And before anyone says it - I know the phrase was around before Charles.....

Joehenny

Why is everyone on this forum on Scooby's nuts?

Kinda cause he knows what he's talking about more than other numbnuts on here... just sayin

Do you even lift brah?

pinkraynedropjacki

You can build on a deficit. It really is true, don't let anyone say you can't unless you eat more than you should. It's not the truth.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oi-jnsG0Z7Y

A video from 2011 with information that has been dis-proven with peer-reviewed research mult times. Also daily cardio while trying to build muscle and in a caloric deficit LOL gtfoh

I've managed to do it quite nicely thanks. Easily & without trying :bigsmile:

krhn

I've wasted many months of my life listening to people on these forums and getting no results because of it. I now trust MFP recommendations for the most part.
I've always wondered about this particular thing though. So when you get muscles while in a calorie deficit, are you revealing the ones you already had by burning the fat around them or building some muscle while burning fat?
In my experience I could see more muscle definition, but I had not lost any weight AT ALL while eating in a calorie deficit, so I wondered "Is it possible that I burned fat and built muscle simultaneously"?

Burning fat and building muscle is only possible at the beginning of someone's weight lifting routine since you have never hit those muscles before but say after 6 months of training, this will not be the case ... Burn fat during deficit, build muscle during surplus

patentguru

I've wasted many months of my life listening to people on these forums and getting no results because of it. I now trust MFP recommendations for the most part.
I've always wondered about this particular thing though. So when you get muscles while in a calorie deficit, are you revealing the ones you already had by burning the fat around them or building some muscle while burning fat?
In my experience I could see more muscle definition, but I had not lost any weight AT ALL while eating in a calorie deficit, so I wondered "Is it possible that I burned fat and built muscle simultaneously"?

Burning fat and building muscle is only possible at the beginning of someone's weight lifting routine since you have never hit those muscles before but say after 6 months of training, this will not be the case ... Burn fat during deficit, build muscle during surplus

Not true. You have at least 10 pounds of stored body fat (35,000 calories) worth of energy for your body to use as fuel during eating a calorie deficit. Thus, the stored fat can be used to fuel your body. The protein eaten during a calorie deficit can be used to make muscle. I agree that this is extremely difficult to achieve, but definitely not impossible. Very disciplined people can do this.

likitisplit

You can also get muscle gains if you were once in shape but then lost it.

I lost 14 pounds of fat and gained 2 pounds of muscle on a 12-week deficit, measured by a hydrostatic weigh-in. It's really rare to be able to do that - you cannot do it losing quickly - and I'm eating at maintenance + to build some additional muscle before losing the last of my fat because I know building muscle on a deficit is not sustainable.

And this is exactly why I posted the differences between LBM, and muscle mass, which is one part of LBM.

Hydrostatic bodyfat measurements do NOT measure muscle mass.

They estimate Fat Mass - end of story.

Weight minus Fat Mass = Lean Body Mass

LBM is muscle, mainly water weight, blood, bone, organs, brain, ect, ect.

You have no idea what you gained. May likely have been some muscle, but how much was blood volume, or stored glucose?

Unless you DEXA scanned it, you have no possible way of knowing.

According to the operator, the water weight cancels out because it's the same density as the water in the tub. If I'm at a deficit, there's probably not going to be all that much more stored glucose after 12 weeks.. If you want to say I gained two pounds of blood solids, bone, heart muscle and brains in 12 weeks, more power to you.

TheDirtyBulker

I've wasted many months of my life listening to people on these forums and getting no results because of it. I now trust MFP recommendations for the most part.
I've always wondered about this particular thing though. So when you get muscles while in a calorie deficit, are you revealing the ones you already had by burning the fat around them or building some muscle while burning fat?
In my experience I could see more muscle definition, but I had not lost any weight AT ALL while eating in a calorie deficit, so I wondered "Is it possible that I burned fat and built muscle simultaneously"?

Burning fat and building muscle is only possible at the beginning of someone's weight lifting routine since you have never hit those muscles before but say after 6 months of training, this will not be the case ... Burn fat during deficit, build muscle during surplus

This does not make any sense. As long as you are continually pushing the muscle and ripping the fibers, it will grow back bigger and stronger. This nonsense of only beginners gaining muscle on a deficit is just that, nonsense.

So according to this lifting while on a deficit, if I lift heavy and tear down my muscles, then I will not have the fuel to rebuild them on a deficit??? So what you are telling me is that while lifting on a deficit, it will actually make my muscles smaller since they tear down and will not rebuild? GTFOH with that crap.

Hexahedra

I'm (slowly) gaining muscle while eating at a deficit, but I've only been lifting weights for 4 months, so I can't tell whether this is the newbie effect or something common.

keithf1138

I have read the whole thread so maybe someone has already said this. I saw someone post that when on a deficit you wont have materials to build muscle because all the material is going to keeping you alive. Now is that really the case if you are doing something like BMR-TDEE method.

Isnt BMR just what you need to keep you alive. That is basically the number of calories you body burns in a sedentary state. TDEE is the amount of calories you really burn per day at your current activity level.

So if I eat more than BMR and less than TDEE. Pick your percentage 5%, 10%, 20% less. Now there is a surplus over the BMR level. Say BMR is 1800 and your eating 2500 and TDEE is 3000.

Now isnt what we want is the 2500 to go towards the activity (working out, building muscle) and when we run out of the fuel we consume the fat is then converted into more energy for basic life maintaining needs.

TheDirtyBulker

I have read the whole thread so maybe someone has already said this. I saw someone post that when on a deficit you wont have materials to build muscle because all the material is going to keeping you alive. Now is that really the case if you are doing something like BMR-TDEE method.

Isnt BMR just what you need to keep you alive. That is basically the number of calories you body burns in a sedentary state. TDEE is the amount of calories you really burn per day at your current activity level.

So if I eat more than BMR and less than TDEE. Pick your percentage 5%, 10%, 20% less. Now there is a surplus over the BMR level. Say BMR is 1800 and your eating 2500 and TDEE is 3000.

Now isnt what we want is the 2500 to go towards the activity (working out, building muscle) and when we run out of the fuel we consume the fat is then converted into more energy for basic life maintaining needs.

I agree completely.