Soldier beheaded in streets of london....

mrdexter1

I don't why people are trying to advocate guns for the UK in this thread but the only reason round here someone would have a gun other than sports is to kill someone.

Same people who voted in the idiot that stired this mess up in the first place and then voted in someone to perpetuate it ???

teshiburu

According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.

Not sure how that's relevant though. Whatever he said, he wasn't doing it in the name of Islam, he was doing it in the name of psychopathy. I could teabag a nun whilst shouting prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wouldn't warrant a war on Pastafarianism, just suggest that I needed sectioning.

This

Fozzi43

Awful
RIP

And hang the *kitten* who did it.

MrsBobaFett

According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.

Not sure how that's relevant though. Whatever he said, he wasn't doing it in the name of Islam, he was doing it in the name of psychopathy. I could teabag a nun whilst shouting prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wouldn't warrant a war on Pastafarianism, just suggest that I needed sectioning.

Fair enough, but the media have no excuse for it other than it being a terrorist attack as he was chanting about Allah and what has been done to the Muslim people. As far as they are concerned, an attack provoked by religion is an act of terror.

Zomoniac

Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics


I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!

I know what you mean. When people prove things it makes me furious. When someone turns up with a few numbers to completely rule out everything I've been clinging onto since the early days of my brainwashed youth it makes my blood boil. They can take their proof and facts and go away somewhere. I don't need facts when common sense will prevail over conclusive evidence.

__Di__

thats not terrorism, thats a guy with a machete.

BAGHDAD — A wave of car bombings and shootings hit cities in Iraq late Sunday and on Monday, killing at least 76 people and wounding more than 250, medical and security officials said. Some news agency reports put the overall toll even higher, at 86 or more dead.

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/world/middleeast/baghdad-basra-iraq-bombings.html

no threads about that tho eh.

Well go start one up then if you feel like that about it. This thread however, is about two lunatics trying to behead and disembowel (yes that bit's been left out) somebody that had just left their barracks.

emergencytennis

"Yes, clearly that follows because I said it's interesting to know who questions and who doesn't. Please, don't talk to me like you know a damn thing about me, because you really, obviously don't. Not that I owe you an explanation, but I am not a conspiracy theorist. There is a reason I said "Question within reason." I am a supporter of our government, I just don't blindly agree with every law they pass without researching it myself. Apparently unlike you, I actually take sides on laws being passed, I don't just nod my head and say, OK, I agree! I'm still confused what a free press has to do with anything, but we obviously do have one. It's not really up for argument, it's a ****ing fact.

Now, you can be on your merry way and go look for someone else to accuse of being a conspiracy theorist so you can have your little argument you were looking for"

I assumed you did not believe the US to have a free press because you were railing against people who believe whatever their government tells them. In a free society the government cannot tell the people anything without analysis by the media. In countries where the media are free to report on whatever they want the government is subjected to blistering critique and cannot get away with bombast or obfuscation in any way. I consider the freedom of the press to be the criterion by which democratic societies are judged - Italy under Berlusconi failed this test miserably.

Oh, and ****

for street cred.

Edit, too many *

MsPudding

They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.

He wasn't a hero, he was a 20yr old guy on his way back from working at the army recruitment office an unfortunately became the tragic victim of two fundamentalist nutjobs. Merely joining the military doesn't automatically make one a hero....nor, indeed, does carrying out one's duties in a theatre of war. Going above and beyond the call of duty to help others, with no regard for one's personal welfare makes one a hero.

The word 'hero' is so over-used these days it's pretty much meaningless.

Now on the gun question. It is not our culture to have open and near-unrestricted gun ownership. It's not even our culture to arm all police. That isn't going to change anytime soon as the majority of the British public, me included, don't want greater freedom to own guns. We can already own rifles if we pass police checks, obtain a licence and comply with the restrictions on usage.

Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.

boothekm

Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics


I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!



These arguments are then most times followed from the pro-gun side by another set of endless statistics that completely counter the arguments just made by the anti-gun crowd. Unfortunately, these pro-gun statistics will never convince the anti-gunners no matter how obvious the numbers.



Nobody ever seems to believe the other guys’ statistics and there is a sound reason for that—statistics are a liar’s best friend and liars know that better than anyone.



I studied statistics in college and found that I could easily develop a long list of impressive numbers to support any argument on either side of an issue, creating virtually any impression I fancied. Politicians and the media do it all the time.



“So what good are all these statistics Colonel if we can’t use them to prove gun control just doesn’t work?”



Although statistics are good facts to have in your pocket, you really don’t need numbers to prove this point. The founders didn’t have any statistics so all you need is what they had in abundance—common sense. “What do you mean Colonel?”



Here are just 4 common sense points that illustrate why gun control is a myth, not a pathway to crime control—and not one point uses statistics.



Common Sense Point #1: Thugs ignore gun laws. To think that thugs who ignore laws against murder, robbery, rape and assault will, by some stretch of lunacy, obey gun control laws is the purest form of lunacy. Does anyone think that a gang planning a bank robbery will trash those plans because they would first be required to register their guns before the job went down?



Let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy planning…The Big Heist



“Well, Bugsy, there it is. Our plans for robbing the Last National Bank are absolutely fool-proof and dat cool million is just waitin’ on us. It’s just a cryin’ shame we can’t pull it off though.”



“Why Mugsy? What do you mean?” asks Bugsy incredulously.



“Because da law says we can’t carry unregistered guns or we could get into real trouble” says Mugsy as he resigns himself to the life of a law abiding citizen.



“You’re right.” admits Bugsy with a tear in his eye. We’ll just have to forget about dat million smackers. I certainly wouldn’t want to break any gun laws.”



And who really thinks that requiring a solid citizen to register his gun will prevent crime? He isn’t planning The Big Heist—never has, never will. So the point is?



Common Sense Point #2: Thugs prefer unarmed victims and avoid potentially armed citizens. Amazing bit of deductive reasoning isn’t it? Anti-gunners hope you never discover that truth on your own. Think about it though from the shoes of Mugsy and Bugsy. Who would you rather confront, an armed citizen or an unarmed one? Where would you rather focus your life of crime? In areas where guns are outlawed or where guns are prevalent? Who would you rather prey on, the defenseless or the armed? And where is violent crime more prevalent? Washington D.C. where gun laws are strictest or Florida where gun laws are more relaxed? I’ll give you one guess but let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy again.



“OK Bugsy, the bank job was a flop I admit dat, but we can always pull a stick-up like in da ol’ days.”



“Yeah, dats right Mugsy. We can always get a little fast bread dat way.” says Bugsy, his excitement for the old days of street crime growing. “But where do we target da mark Mugsy?”



Well Bugsy, we sure can’t pull stick ups in Florida, too many guns there. We might could get shot by one of dem ol’ southern boys. You know how they are. A lot of ‘em is packin’ these days since Florida OK’d concealed carry—ya just never know down there anymore—a real shame ain’t it?”



“You’re right Mugsy. That could be way too dangerous for us.” “I got it!” says Bugsy, “We’ll hit every schmuck in Washington D.C. None of dem bums got guns…it’s against the law…we’ll be the only ones there what got heaters!”



“Great idea!” says Mugsy, “Let’s load up and git goin’. Easy pickins, here we come!”



Common Sense Point #3: Crime is deviant behavior. A gun is an inanimate tool not deviant behavior and crime is deviant behavior not an inanimate tool. You can’t prevent deviant behavior by regulating tools because tools are incapable of behavior and the number of tools available to the world’s deviants is endless.



Even if you could legislate guns out of existence, deviants could, would and have used other things that gave them a power advantage over their victims—knives, clubs, rocks or even sharp sticks—all of which are very legal and very accessible.



Commons Sense Point #4: The Trump Card. The strongest point of all consists of a mere 27 words and is absolute in its nature. It trumps all statistics ever concocted by man and all arguments ever made—and not one of the 27 words is a number… “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” #4, my friends, is absolute, unambiguous and supersedes all arguments and all statistics.



Now go forth soldier, well armed with common sense, the absolute truth of the II Amendment and ready to fight the good fight.



One last note: If you ever find any staunchly committed anti-gunner actually and honestly willing to listen to common sense or interpret the II Amendment simply as written by our founders, please let me know. I’m still looking for one.



Just the view from my saddle…

Uhhh....ooookay.

Saying we "anti-gunners" don't have common sense doesn't seem very nice now does it. I never called you or your NRA buddies stupid. I've merely made jokes about their closet autoerotic-asphyxiation techniques with their firearms...and a couple harmless jokes about how they use their guns to get off by sticking the barrel of their guns up their-ya know, never mind my jokes. Just saying I've never accused you of lacking common sense. Tsk tsk.

Bottom line is, people need guns because other people have guns. There wouldn't be any gun laws for thugs to ignore if there were no guns Even in self-defense incidents, murder seems silly. Incapacitating is just as effective. Get a taser, some mace.

2nd Amendment crap is irrelevant these days. They had no idea what their muskets were gonna turn into. It's especially frightening now that a plastic gun has been created that gets by all metal-detectors.

Don't really know why I'm giving the view from my 'saddle' since I'm stupid and lack common sense.

Oh well.

None of it matters, really. When the zombies come hatchets and baseball bats will be our best bets, anyways.

Please be a peach and point out where exactly this article states that anti-gunners do not have common sense. I can't seem to find it. However, if that's the perception you get, maybe it hit the nail on the head.

To each his own....and by own I mean my 270 rifle that I will confidently put in an intruder's face when he/she breaks into my house. (I live alone.)

nikilis

in the end its just sad. a guy died, heinously for no reason, at the hands of what appears to be a lunatic who does not represent what I believe to be true islam in any sense.

the truth is people die in horrible ways, all the time in darker corners of the world and its not reported.

it seems that the life of one is not equal to the life of another in the eyes of the media.

which makes it all sadder still.

__Di__

Why was the soldier alone? In my military experience, we were often in pairs or larger groups. What took the police so long? I am so sad for the soldiers family.

One of the attackers had a revolver, the police had to wait for the armed response unit. In the US it wouldn't take long as their gun laws are different, in the UK the old bill have to wait, just as well they did too, one of the attackers ran at the police with the gun, hence they shot them both.

chanel1twenty

thats not terrorism, thats a guy with a machete.

BAGHDAD — A wave of car bombings and shootings hit cities in Iraq late Sunday and on Monday, killing at least 76 people and wounding more than 250, medical and security officials said. Some news agency reports put the overall toll even higher, at 86 or more dead.

source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/world/middleeast/baghdad-basra-iraq-bombings.html

no threads about that tho eh.

Terrorism
noun
1. the use of violence or threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political or religious purposes

2. systematic use of violence or intimidation to achieve some goal or make a point


.....I'm fairly certain what they did is thee literal definition of terrorism-literally. Don't even bring up a silly point like that. However unfortunate it is, collateral damage is a part of war and conflict. It's unavoidable.
In the Middle East, extremists and insurgents intentionally choreograph their attacks and whatnot in areas full of innocents so that when the US/British/etc military go to respond they end up killing civilians. Fact. This is done intentionally to make citizens in the area where the conflict is occurring resentful of said countries/militaries so the citizens will become insurgent/terrorist sympathizers.

Collateral damage in war-torn areas is unavoidable...but a barbaric attack on a citizen whose country is sitting pretty in peace? Inexcusable.

I am deeply offended and disgusted by your post.

wait, what? hmmm.... not sure if dis is serious, or troll lvl: master.

back away slowly people. no sudden moves. dont make eye contact.

"Dat" was so funny!
Great rebuttal. Good job defending and explaining your post.

If we made a thread for every time someone was killed in Iraq, I'm pretty sure the site would overload. There's a thread about an innocent man getting hacked to death by a religious fanatic in Britain because there was an innocent man hacked to death by a religious fanatic in Britain.
Please attempt to contribute something relevant.

ldrosophila

They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.

He wasn't a hero, he was a 20yr old guy on his way back from working at the army recruitment office an unfortunately became the tragic victim of two fundamentalist nutjobs. Merely joining the military doesn't automatically make one a hero....nor, indeed, does carrying out one's duties in a theatre of war. Going above and beyond the call of duty to help others, with no regard for one's personal welfare makes one a hero.

The word 'hero' is so over-used these days it's pretty much meaningless.

Now on the gun question. It is not our culture to have open and near-unrestricted gun ownership. It's not even our culture to arm all police. That isn't going to change anytime soon as the majority of the British public, me included, don't want greater freedom to own guns. We can already own rifles if we pass police checks, obtain a licence and comply with the restrictions on usage.

Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.

Fascinates me how much our country's philosophy differ. My first response as an American was "holy h#ll" how did this poor man almost lose his head in an urban street where was the protection? I wonder how this would have played out in the streets of America? I'm sure those men would be dead the police would have killed them. Seems the the response from most of our UK neighbors is you need to go to the source and get rid of these extremist preachers. How would that work though without encroaching on someone's religion? I hope another tragedy like this happens again.

*oops DOES NOT HAPPEN AGAIN!

__Di__

Why was the soldier alone? In my military experience, we were often in pairs or larger groups. What took the police so long? I am so sad for the soldiers family.

It took the police long because they weren't armed, they had to wait twenty minutes for a trained armed response team. Such a tragedy.

It's an eye opener to read anti-gun replies from some Brits. You have become good citizens of the regime, bravo!Do you have a lot of faith and trust in your government? A responsible, armed citizen could have stopped this attack. The terrorists know the streets of London are a target-rich environment. They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.

Well I guess the alternative Wild West solution is not ideal either and believe me that is what this would have occurred if everybody had been equipped that day.

It was not 20 minutes either.

ldrosophila

Why was the soldier alone? In my military experience, we were often in pairs or larger groups. What took the police so long? I am so sad for the soldiers family.

One of the attackers had a revolver, the police had to wait for the armed response unit. In the US it wouldn't take long as their gun laws are different, in the UK the old bill have to wait, just as well they did too, one of the attackers ran at the police with the gun, hence they shot them both.

What the attackers were armed?!?! This doesnt cause anyone for concern?

Zomoniac

I hope another tragedy like this happens again.

Care to volunteer yourself? Sounds like it would be beneficial for humanity.

ldrosophila

I hope another tragedy like this happens again.

Care to volunteer yourself? Sounds like it would be beneficial for humanity.

I forgot NOT jeesh! what do you think...that was a pretty uncalled for comment too! I think I am owed a hardy apology

MrsBobaFett

Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.

To kick religious extremists out of this country full stop. One of the attackers was a British born, Islam convert.

jimmmer

They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.

He wasn't a hero, he was a 20yr old guy on his way back from working at the army recruitment office an unfortunately became the tragic victim of two fundamentalist nutjobs. Merely joining the military doesn't automatically make one a hero....nor, indeed, does carrying out one's duties in a theatre of war. Going above and beyond the call of duty to help others, with no regard for one's personal welfare makes one a hero.

The word 'hero' is so over-used these days it's pretty much meaningless.

Now on the gun question. It is not our culture to have open and near-unrestricted gun ownership. It's not even our culture to arm all police. That isn't going to change anytime soon as the majority of the British public, me included, don't want greater freedom to own guns. We can already own rifles if we pass police checks, obtain a licence and comply with the restrictions on usage.

Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.

Fascinates me how much our country's philosophy differ. My first response as an American was "holy h#ll" how did this poor man almost lose his head in an urban street where was the protection? I wonder how this would have played out in the streets of America? I'm sure those men would be dead the police would have killed them. Seems the the response from most of our UK neighbors is you need to go to the source and get rid of these extremist preachers. How would that work though without encroaching on someone's religion? I hope another tragedy like this happens again.

People get killed in America all the time before the police have a chance to respond. Since police officiers are not telepathic/time travellers/clairvoyants, then a large part of the job is actually responding to things that have already happened. You don't see the irony in the high murder rate in the US and the fact that obviously the police never turned up before all those murders happened to stop them. Guess you made a bunch of stupid posts about all of those incidents, too? Jesus, you're an *kitten*.

A man has lost his life - that's a tragedy whatever way you slice it. Self righteous bollocks like this is neither helpful or constructive. We live in a system in the UK where the majority of us believe in the rule of law. People should be arrested and tried for their crimes. That's an aspect of the society I live in that makes me proud.

Zomoniac

I hope another tragedy like this happens again.

Care to volunteer yourself? Sounds like it would be beneficial for humanity.

I forgot NOT jeesh! what do you think...that was a pretty uncalled for comment too! I think I am owed a hardy apology

I don't. I'm quite happy to retract my comment, but I'm not going to grovel for writing a response to what you actually wrote, which given what the post originally said seemed perfectly called for. Anyway, I withdraw my previous comment.