Soldier beheaded in streets of london....
Replies
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I couldn't look at the front of the newspapers in my local shop today, my heart sank when I heard the news and my eyes filled up with tears when I saw the video of the animal holding a bloody cleaver saying that he was sorry that women and children had to witness this but in "his land" the woman and children have to see it everyday. Sorry but if it is your land then why aren't you there? :noway:
"Michael Adeboloja, 28, born in Lambeth, London. He studied sociology at Greenwich University."
This is his land. He's British, hence the Cockney accent he's shouting about Allah in. He didn't do anything because of being black, Muslim, or because of anything anyone did anywhere in any land ever, he did it because he's a complete mentalist.
That's what I didn't understand, he was saying in his land but had a strong London accent :huh:0 -
Unlike the US, where murder barely hits the news unless its a high school/college darling or sports star
Do you even live in the US? At least in my area, most murders make it to the news. There is a big problem with stabbings and such around this area, and every time there is one it gets on the news. It's hardly just college darlings and sports star, but that's a lovely blanket you have there.0 -
I couldn't look at the front of the newspapers in my local shop today, my heart sank when I heard the news and my eyes filled up with tears when I saw the video of the animal holding a bloody cleaver saying that he was sorry that women and children had to witness this but in "his land" the woman and children have to see it everyday. Sorry but if it is your land then why aren't you there? :noway:
"Michael Adeboloja, 28, born in Lambeth, London. He studied sociology at Greenwich University."
This is his land. He's British, hence the Cockney accent he's shouting about Allah in. He didn't do anything because of being black, Muslim, or because of anything anyone did anywhere in any land ever, he did it because he's a complete mentalist.
QFT0 -
Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics
I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!
These arguments are then most times followed from the pro-gun side by another set of endless statistics that completely counter the arguments just made by the anti-gun crowd. Unfortunately, these pro-gun statistics will never convince the anti-gunners no matter how obvious the numbers.
Nobody ever seems to believe the other guys’ statistics and there is a sound reason for that—statistics are a liar’s best friend and liars know that better than anyone.
I studied statistics in college and found that I could easily develop a long list of impressive numbers to support any argument on either side of an issue, creating virtually any impression I fancied. Politicians and the media do it all the time.
“So what good are all these statistics Colonel if we can’t use them to prove gun control just doesn’t work?”
Although statistics are good facts to have in your pocket, you really don’t need numbers to prove this point. The founders didn’t have any statistics so all you need is what they had in abundance—common sense. “What do you mean Colonel?”
Here are just 4 common sense points that illustrate why gun control is a myth, not a pathway to crime control—and not one point uses statistics.
Common Sense Point #1: Thugs ignore gun laws. To think that thugs who ignore laws against murder, robbery, rape and assault will, by some stretch of lunacy, obey gun control laws is the purest form of lunacy. Does anyone think that a gang planning a bank robbery will trash those plans because they would first be required to register their guns before the job went down?
Let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy planning…The Big Heist
“Well, Bugsy, there it is. Our plans for robbing the Last National Bank are absolutely fool-proof and dat cool million is just waitin’ on us. It’s just a cryin’ shame we can’t pull it off though.”
“Why Mugsy? What do you mean?” asks Bugsy incredulously.
“Because da law says we can’t carry unregistered guns or we could get into real trouble” says Mugsy as he resigns himself to the life of a law abiding citizen.
“You’re right.” admits Bugsy with a tear in his eye. We’ll just have to forget about dat million smackers. I certainly wouldn’t want to break any gun laws.”
And who really thinks that requiring a solid citizen to register his gun will prevent crime? He isn’t planning The Big Heist—never has, never will. So the point is?
Common Sense Point #2: Thugs prefer unarmed victims and avoid potentially armed citizens. Amazing bit of deductive reasoning isn’t it? Anti-gunners hope you never discover that truth on your own. Think about it though from the shoes of Mugsy and Bugsy. Who would you rather confront, an armed citizen or an unarmed one? Where would you rather focus your life of crime? In areas where guns are outlawed or where guns are prevalent? Who would you rather prey on, the defenseless or the armed? And where is violent crime more prevalent? Washington D.C. where gun laws are strictest or Florida where gun laws are more relaxed? I’ll give you one guess but let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy again.
“OK Bugsy, the bank job was a flop I admit dat, but we can always pull a stick-up like in da ol’ days.”
“Yeah, dats right Mugsy. We can always get a little fast bread dat way.” says Bugsy, his excitement for the old days of street crime growing. “But where do we target da mark Mugsy?”
Well Bugsy, we sure can’t pull stick ups in Florida, too many guns there. We might could get shot by one of dem ol’ southern boys. You know how they are. A lot of ‘em is packin’ these days since Florida OK’d concealed carry—ya just never know down there anymore—a real shame ain’t it?”
“You’re right Mugsy. That could be way too dangerous for us.” “I got it!” says Bugsy, “We’ll hit every schmuck in Washington D.C. None of dem bums got guns…it’s against the law…we’ll be the only ones there what got heaters!”
“Great idea!” says Mugsy, “Let’s load up and git goin’. Easy pickins, here we come!”
Common Sense Point #3: Crime is deviant behavior. A gun is an inanimate tool not deviant behavior and crime is deviant behavior not an inanimate tool. You can’t prevent deviant behavior by regulating tools because tools are incapable of behavior and the number of tools available to the world’s deviants is endless.
Even if you could legislate guns out of existence, deviants could, would and have used other things that gave them a power advantage over their victims—knives, clubs, rocks or even sharp sticks—all of which are very legal and very accessible.
Commons Sense Point #4: The Trump Card. The strongest point of all consists of a mere 27 words and is absolute in its nature. It trumps all statistics ever concocted by man and all arguments ever made—and not one of the 27 words is a number… “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” #4, my friends, is absolute, unambiguous and supersedes all arguments and all statistics.
Now go forth soldier, well armed with common sense, the absolute truth of the II Amendment and ready to fight the good fight.
One last note: If you ever find any staunchly committed anti-gunner actually and honestly willing to listen to common sense or interpret the II Amendment simply as written by our founders, please let me know. I’m still looking for one.
Just the view from my saddle…
Extremely well said!
Actually, I found it quite rambling and rather condescending ,so I skimmed over most of it once we got to the kitschy bank robbers. Guess that's just the view from MY saddle.
One last note: If you ever find any staunchly committed anti-gunner actually and honestly willing to listen to common sense or interpret the II Amendment simply as written by our founders, please let me know. I’m still looking for one.
POINT PROVEN!0 -
Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics
I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!
These arguments are then most times followed from the pro-gun side by another set of endless statistics that completely counter the arguments just made by the anti-gun crowd. Unfortunately, these pro-gun statistics will never convince the anti-gunners no matter how obvious the numbers.
Nobody ever seems to believe the other guys’ statistics and there is a sound reason for that—statistics are a liar’s best friend and liars know that better than anyone.
I studied statistics in college and found that I could easily develop a long list of impressive numbers to support any argument on either side of an issue, creating virtually any impression I fancied. Politicians and the media do it all the time.
“So what good are all these statistics Colonel if we can’t use them to prove gun control just doesn’t work?”
Although statistics are good facts to have in your pocket, you really don’t need numbers to prove this point. The founders didn’t have any statistics so all you need is what they had in abundance—common sense. “What do you mean Colonel?”
Here are just 4 common sense points that illustrate why gun control is a myth, not a pathway to crime control—and not one point uses statistics.
Common Sense Point #1: Thugs ignore gun laws. To think that thugs who ignore laws against murder, robbery, rape and assault will, by some stretch of lunacy, obey gun control laws is the purest form of lunacy. Does anyone think that a gang planning a bank robbery will trash those plans because they would first be required to register their guns before the job went down?
Let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy planning…The Big Heist
“Well, Bugsy, there it is. Our plans for robbing the Last National Bank are absolutely fool-proof and dat cool million is just waitin’ on us. It’s just a cryin’ shame we can’t pull it off though.”
“Why Mugsy? What do you mean?” asks Bugsy incredulously.
“Because da law says we can’t carry unregistered guns or we could get into real trouble” says Mugsy as he resigns himself to the life of a law abiding citizen.
“You’re right.” admits Bugsy with a tear in his eye. We’ll just have to forget about dat million smackers. I certainly wouldn’t want to break any gun laws.”
And who really thinks that requiring a solid citizen to register his gun will prevent crime? He isn’t planning The Big Heist—never has, never will. So the point is?
Common Sense Point #2: Thugs prefer unarmed victims and avoid potentially armed citizens. Amazing bit of deductive reasoning isn’t it? Anti-gunners hope you never discover that truth on your own. Think about it though from the shoes of Mugsy and Bugsy. Who would you rather confront, an armed citizen or an unarmed one? Where would you rather focus your life of crime? In areas where guns are outlawed or where guns are prevalent? Who would you rather prey on, the defenseless or the armed? And where is violent crime more prevalent? Washington D.C. where gun laws are strictest or Florida where gun laws are more relaxed? I’ll give you one guess but let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy again.
“OK Bugsy, the bank job was a flop I admit dat, but we can always pull a stick-up like in da ol’ days.”
“Yeah, dats right Mugsy. We can always get a little fast bread dat way.” says Bugsy, his excitement for the old days of street crime growing. “But where do we target da mark Mugsy?”
Well Bugsy, we sure can’t pull stick ups in Florida, too many guns there. We might could get shot by one of dem ol’ southern boys. You know how they are. A lot of ‘em is packin’ these days since Florida OK’d concealed carry—ya just never know down there anymore—a real shame ain’t it?”
“You’re right Mugsy. That could be way too dangerous for us.” “I got it!” says Bugsy, “We’ll hit every schmuck in Washington D.C. None of dem bums got guns…it’s against the law…we’ll be the only ones there what got heaters!”
“Great idea!” says Mugsy, “Let’s load up and git goin’. Easy pickins, here we come!”
Common Sense Point #3: Crime is deviant behavior. A gun is an inanimate tool not deviant behavior and crime is deviant behavior not an inanimate tool. You can’t prevent deviant behavior by regulating tools because tools are incapable of behavior and the number of tools available to the world’s deviants is endless.
Even if you could legislate guns out of existence, deviants could, would and have used other things that gave them a power advantage over their victims—knives, clubs, rocks or even sharp sticks—all of which are very legal and very accessible.
Commons Sense Point #4: The Trump Card. The strongest point of all consists of a mere 27 words and is absolute in its nature. It trumps all statistics ever concocted by man and all arguments ever made—and not one of the 27 words is a number… “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” #4, my friends, is absolute, unambiguous and supersedes all arguments and all statistics.
Now go forth soldier, well armed with common sense, the absolute truth of the II Amendment and ready to fight the good fight.
One last note: If you ever find any staunchly committed anti-gunner actually and honestly willing to listen to common sense or interpret the II Amendment simply as written by our founders, please let me know. I’m still looking for one.
Just the view from my saddle…
Extremely well said!
Actually, I found it quite rambling and rather condescending ,so I skimmed over most of it once we got to the kitschy bank robbers. Guess that's just the view from MY saddle.
I think the poster was attempting to illustrate the logical points by the comical vignettes. But apparently, the points were lost on you anyway.0 -
I couldn't look at the front of the newspapers in my local shop today, my heart sank when I heard the news and my eyes filled up with tears when I saw the video of the animal holding a bloody cleaver saying that he was sorry that women and children had to witness this but in "his land" the woman and children have to see it everyday. Sorry but if it is your land then why aren't you there? :noway:
"Michael Adeboloja, 28, born in Lambeth, London. He studied sociology at Greenwich University."
This is his land. He's British, hence the Cockney accent he's shouting about Allah in. He didn't do anything because of being black, Muslim, or because of anything anyone did anywhere in any land ever, he did it because he's a complete mentalist.
That's what I didn't understand, he was saying in his land but had a strong London accent :huh:
im putting my money on him being a lunatic. not a "terrorist".0 -
According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.0
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We don't want guns here thank you..
The actions of a few do not represent the masses.
What's funny is that what you just said there at the bottom is actually an argument used by a lot of your counterparts, and kind of hypocritical, if I were to play devil's advocate here for a minute.
I get your point, that people spout whatever they're brought up with.
My leaning is not based on upbringing, government lines or anything else. It is based purely on hard numbers. That in 2012 there were 4.8 homicides per 100,000 people in the US and 1.2 per 100,000 in the UK. That more people per capita were killed in mass shootings in 2012 alone (Newtown, Accent Signage, Wisconsin Sikh Temple, Aurora, Seattle, Oikos and Su Jung = 72 people in 7 incidents in one calendar year) than have happened in the UK between 2005 and 2013. That every single available statistic very, very strongly suggests that arming the public leads to a higher chance of being murdered.
Anyway, we have somewhat deviated from the topic at hand.0 -
If nothing else, this thread has opened my eyes to which people just nod and do and believe whatever their government tells them and which ones question within reason. It's like watching a group of turkeys in a rainstorm. Entertaining, to say the least.
Could you explain what you mean? From your reply I assume you are in a country without a free press. Here in the West we do our best to protect the independent media.
Nope, in America. I don't want a debate at the moment on this particular issue, so I purposely didn't add any details so I don't let on which side I agree with. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to know more of what I mean
Therefore, you don't believe America has a free press. I don't get into private messages with conspiracy theorists, but I would love to hear your arguments in the open forum.
:huh: Yes, clearly that follows because I said it's interesting to know who questions and who doesn't. Please, don't talk to me like you know a damn thing about me, because you really, obviously don't. Not that I owe you an explanation, but I am not a conspiracy theorist. There is a reason I said "Question within reason." I am a supporter of our government, I just don't blindly agree with every law they pass without researching it myself. Apparently unlike you, I actually take sides on laws being passed, I don't just nod my head and say, OK, I agree! I'm still confused what a free press has to do with anything, but we obviously do have one. It's not really up for argument, it's a ****ing fact.
Now, you can be on your merry way and go look for someone else to accuse of being a conspiracy theorist so you can have your little argument you were looking for. :flowerforyou:0 -
I don't why people are trying to advocate guns for the UK in this thread but the only reason round here someone would have a gun other than sports is to kill someone.0
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Anyway, we have somewhat deviated from the topic at hand.
Did we? Hadn't noticed :flowerforyou:0 -
Armed or not it should be a wake up call for people to realize that when stuff goes down the police are not going to be there to help you. Your self-preservation is in your own hands.Why was the soldier alone? In my military experience, we were often in pairs or larger groups. What took the police so long? I am so sad for the soldiers family.
It took the police long because they weren't armed, they had to wait twenty minutes for a trained armed response team. Such a tragedy.
This is a different country. Watching and listening to the news for more than 6 hours yesterday, I'm pretty supportive of how the police handled it under the circumstances.
These kind of events are very rare in this country so I think it's a bit off to include it in blanket statements. I think the reason we don't have higher instances of such acts is because we do have very strict controls on obtaining and carrying offensive weapons. There will always be instances (this one included a meat cleaver), but I'm thankful we don't have more.
btw, the whole situation went down inside of about 25 minutes. The car hitting the guy, the attack beginning, the ambulance being called because people thought it was a car accident, the police being called, the area being secured, the armed response unit being called and the men being shot. For a rare situation, I applaud the police for what they did.
As for the guy being alone, he was off duty and walking down the street, on his way back to barracks.
25 minutes if a very long time enough for a man who served his country to die. so you can get your head and neck hacked at in the streets of london before the police have the ability to respond? Bless this poor man and his family. Arent soldiers allowed to be armed or was he too far from the base for guards to help him? I dont know if I was a citizen I might be pretty upset at this, so who is there to protect you?0 -
We don't want guns here thank you..
The actions of a few do not represent the masses.
What's funny is that what you just said there at the bottom is actually an argument used by a lot of your counterparts, and kind of hypocritical, if I were to play devil's advocate here for a minute.
I get your point, that people spout whatever they're brought up with.
My leaning is not based on upbringing, government lines or anything else. It is based purely on hard numbers. That in 2012 there were 4.8 homicides per 100,000 people in the US and 1.2 per 100,000 in the UK. That more people per capita were killed in mass shootings in 2012 alone (Newtown, Accent Signage, Wisconsin Sikh Temple, Aurora, Seattle, Oikos and Su Jung = 72 people in 7 incidents in one calendar year) than have happened in the UK between 2005 and 2013. That every single available statistic very, very strongly suggests that arming the public leads to a higher chance of being murdered.
Anyway, we have somewhat deviated from the topic at hand.
No hard facts allowed here! what are you doing??
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Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics
I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!
These arguments are then most times followed from the pro-gun side by another set of endless statistics that completely counter the arguments just made by the anti-gun crowd. Unfortunately, these pro-gun statistics will never convince the anti-gunners no matter how obvious the numbers.
Nobody ever seems to believe the other guys’ statistics and there is a sound reason for that—statistics are a liar’s best friend and liars know that better than anyone.
I studied statistics in college and found that I could easily develop a long list of impressive numbers to support any argument on either side of an issue, creating virtually any impression I fancied. Politicians and the media do it all the time.
“So what good are all these statistics Colonel if we can’t use them to prove gun control just doesn’t work?”
Although statistics are good facts to have in your pocket, you really don’t need numbers to prove this point. The founders didn’t have any statistics so all you need is what they had in abundance—common sense. “What do you mean Colonel?”
Here are just 4 common sense points that illustrate why gun control is a myth, not a pathway to crime control—and not one point uses statistics.
Common Sense Point #1: Thugs ignore gun laws. To think that thugs who ignore laws against murder, robbery, rape and assault will, by some stretch of lunacy, obey gun control laws is the purest form of lunacy. Does anyone think that a gang planning a bank robbery will trash those plans because they would first be required to register their guns before the job went down?
Let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy planning…The Big Heist
“Well, Bugsy, there it is. Our plans for robbing the Last National Bank are absolutely fool-proof and dat cool million is just waitin’ on us. It’s just a cryin’ shame we can’t pull it off though.”
“Why Mugsy? What do you mean?” asks Bugsy incredulously.
“Because da law says we can’t carry unregistered guns or we could get into real trouble” says Mugsy as he resigns himself to the life of a law abiding citizen.
“You’re right.” admits Bugsy with a tear in his eye. We’ll just have to forget about dat million smackers. I certainly wouldn’t want to break any gun laws.”
And who really thinks that requiring a solid citizen to register his gun will prevent crime? He isn’t planning The Big Heist—never has, never will. So the point is?
Common Sense Point #2: Thugs prefer unarmed victims and avoid potentially armed citizens. Amazing bit of deductive reasoning isn’t it? Anti-gunners hope you never discover that truth on your own. Think about it though from the shoes of Mugsy and Bugsy. Who would you rather confront, an armed citizen or an unarmed one? Where would you rather focus your life of crime? In areas where guns are outlawed or where guns are prevalent? Who would you rather prey on, the defenseless or the armed? And where is violent crime more prevalent? Washington D.C. where gun laws are strictest or Florida where gun laws are more relaxed? I’ll give you one guess but let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy again.
“OK Bugsy, the bank job was a flop I admit dat, but we can always pull a stick-up like in da ol’ days.”
“Yeah, dats right Mugsy. We can always get a little fast bread dat way.” says Bugsy, his excitement for the old days of street crime growing. “But where do we target da mark Mugsy?”
Well Bugsy, we sure can’t pull stick ups in Florida, too many guns there. We might could get shot by one of dem ol’ southern boys. You know how they are. A lot of ‘em is packin’ these days since Florida OK’d concealed carry—ya just never know down there anymore—a real shame ain’t it?”
“You’re right Mugsy. That could be way too dangerous for us.” “I got it!” says Bugsy, “We’ll hit every schmuck in Washington D.C. None of dem bums got guns…it’s against the law…we’ll be the only ones there what got heaters!”
“Great idea!” says Mugsy, “Let’s load up and git goin’. Easy pickins, here we come!”
Common Sense Point #3: Crime is deviant behavior. A gun is an inanimate tool not deviant behavior and crime is deviant behavior not an inanimate tool. You can’t prevent deviant behavior by regulating tools because tools are incapable of behavior and the number of tools available to the world’s deviants is endless.
Even if you could legislate guns out of existence, deviants could, would and have used other things that gave them a power advantage over their victims—knives, clubs, rocks or even sharp sticks—all of which are very legal and very accessible.
Commons Sense Point #4: The Trump Card. The strongest point of all consists of a mere 27 words and is absolute in its nature. It trumps all statistics ever concocted by man and all arguments ever made—and not one of the 27 words is a number… “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” #4, my friends, is absolute, unambiguous and supersedes all arguments and all statistics.
Now go forth soldier, well armed with common sense, the absolute truth of the II Amendment and ready to fight the good fight.
One last note: If you ever find any staunchly committed anti-gunner actually and honestly willing to listen to common sense or interpret the II Amendment simply as written by our founders, please let me know. I’m still looking for one.
Just the view from my saddle…
Uhhh....ooookay.
Saying we "anti-gunners" don't have common sense doesn't seem very nice now does it. I never called you or your NRA buddies stupid. I've merely made jokes about their closet autoerotic-asphyxiation techniques with their firearms...and a couple harmless jokes about how they use their guns to get off by sticking the barrel of their guns up their-ya know, never mind my jokes. Just saying I've never accused you of lacking common sense. Tsk tsk.
Bottom line is, people need guns because other people have guns. There wouldn't be any gun laws for thugs to ignore if there were no guns
Even in self-defense incidents, murder seems silly. Incapacitating is just as effective. Get a taser, some mace.
2nd Amendment crap is irrelevant these days. They had no idea what their muskets were gonna turn into. It's especially frightening now that a plastic gun has been created that gets by all metal-detectors.
Don't really know why I'm giving the view from my 'saddle' since I'm stupid and lack common sense.
Oh well.
None of it matters, really. When the zombies come hatchets and baseball bats will be our best bets, anyways.0 -
The other guy with him, the homeless man, WAS a lunatic. He often spent his days in the town square (Beresford Square, Woolwich) wandering around ranting about Allah etc, muttering to himself etc.I couldn't look at the front of the newspapers in my local shop today, my heart sank when I heard the news and my eyes filled up with tears when I saw the video of the animal holding a bloody cleaver saying that he was sorry that women and children had to witness this but in "his land" the woman and children have to see it everyday. Sorry but if it is your land then why aren't you there? :noway:
"Michael Adeboloja, 28, born in Lambeth, London. He studied sociology at Greenwich University."
This is his land. He's British, hence the Cockney accent he's shouting about Allah in. He didn't do anything because of being black, Muslim, or because of anything anyone did anywhere in any land ever, he did it because he's a complete mentalist.
That's what I didn't understand, he was saying in his land but had a strong London accent :huh:
im putting my money on him being a lunatic. not a "terrorist".0 -
Wow this escalated quickly into a gun control debate, should this be about the family of the victim in all this. Only thing I'll add to the gun debate is imagine if the group of idiots from the EDL had easy legal access to guns, last night would have got very out of hand very fast...... a little like this thread.0
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According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.
Not sure how that's relevant though. Whatever he said, he wasn't doing it in the name of Islam, he was doing it in the name of psychopathy. I could teabag a nun whilst shouting prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wouldn't warrant a war on Pastafarianism, just suggest that I needed sectioning.0 -
Don't know if you have heard of this yet, but me and some friends are trying to get as many people possible on the 22nd june to wear help for heroes t-shirts...
https://www.facebook.com/events/553297091380819/?notif_t=plan_user_joined
Go on this link join the page and share it with your friends! We want this to go viral!
Alin I dont know if you know, but there is also a massive sponsored bike ride in blackheath park on the 2nd of June, this was organised before this atrocity but it may be worth while popping along?0 -
Nazi Germany disarmed the people, the Soviet Union disarmed the people, Communist China disarmed the people.
Democratic Great Britain disarmed the people.......
I hope you're not comparing us to Nazi Germany?0 -
I hope these men get the justice deserved. If the tables were reversed and this had been an extremist in an Islamic country hacking at the necks of their soldiers you can guarantee their heads would be on a stake in the middle of the city right now.0
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I don't why people are trying to advocate guns for the UK in this thread but the only reason round here someone would have a gun other than sports is to kill someone.
Same people who voted in the idiot that stired this mess up in the first place and then voted in someone to perpetuate it ???0 -
According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.
Not sure how that's relevant though. Whatever he said, he wasn't doing it in the name of Islam, he was doing it in the name of psychopathy. I could teabag a nun whilst shouting prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wouldn't warrant a war on Pastafarianism, just suggest that I needed sectioning.
This0 -
Awful
RIP
And hang the *kitten* who did it.0 -
According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.
Not sure how that's relevant though. Whatever he said, he wasn't doing it in the name of Islam, he was doing it in the name of psychopathy. I could teabag a nun whilst shouting prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wouldn't warrant a war on Pastafarianism, just suggest that I needed sectioning.
Fair enough, but the media have no excuse for it other than it being a terrorist attack as he was chanting about Allah and what has been done to the Muslim people. As far as they are concerned, an attack provoked by religion is an act of terror.0 -
Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics
I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!
I know what you mean. When people prove things it makes me furious. When someone turns up with a few numbers to completely rule out everything I've been clinging onto since the early days of my brainwashed youth it makes my blood boil. They can take their proof and facts and go away somewhere. I don't need facts when common sense will prevail over conclusive evidence.0 -
thats not terrorism, thats a guy with a machete.
BAGHDAD — A wave of car bombings and shootings hit cities in Iraq late Sunday and on Monday, killing at least 76 people and wounding more than 250, medical and security officials said. Some news agency reports put the overall toll even higher, at 86 or more dead.
source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/world/middleeast/baghdad-basra-iraq-bombings.html
no threads about that tho eh.
Well go start one up then if you feel like that about it. This thread however, is about two lunatics trying to behead and disembowel (yes that bit's been left out) somebody that had just left their barracks.0 -
"Yes, clearly that follows because I said it's interesting to know who questions and who doesn't. Please, don't talk to me like you know a damn thing about me, because you really, obviously don't. Not that I owe you an explanation, but I am not a conspiracy theorist. There is a reason I said "Question within reason." I am a supporter of our government, I just don't blindly agree with every law they pass without researching it myself. Apparently unlike you, I actually take sides on laws being passed, I don't just nod my head and say, OK, I agree! I'm still confused what a free press has to do with anything, but we obviously do have one. It's not really up for argument, it's a ****ing fact.
Now, you can be on your merry way and go look for someone else to accuse of being a conspiracy theorist so you can have your little argument you were looking for"
I assumed you did not believe the US to have a free press because you were railing against people who believe whatever their government tells them. In a free society the government cannot tell the people anything without analysis by the media. In countries where the media are free to report on whatever they want the government is subjected to blistering critique and cannot get away with bombast or obfuscation in any way. I consider the freedom of the press to be the criterion by which democratic societies are judged - Italy under Berlusconi failed this test miserably.
Oh, and ****
for street cred.
Edit, too many *0 -
They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.
He wasn't a hero, he was a 20yr old guy on his way back from working at the army recruitment office an unfortunately became the tragic victim of two fundamentalist nutjobs. Merely joining the military doesn't automatically make one a hero....nor, indeed, does carrying out one's duties in a theatre of war. Going above and beyond the call of duty to help others, with no regard for one's personal welfare makes one a hero.
The word 'hero' is so over-used these days it's pretty much meaningless.
Now on the gun question. It is not our culture to have open and near-unrestricted gun ownership. It's not even our culture to arm all police. That isn't going to change anytime soon as the majority of the British public, me included, don't want greater freedom to own guns. We can already own rifles if we pass police checks, obtain a licence and comply with the restrictions on usage.
Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.0 -
Common Sense Doesn’t Require Statistics
I start out amused, then get frustrated, then angry, and finally absolutely resolute when I see these anti-gunners spout statistics here, there and everywhere about the dangers of guns, crime rates and the effectiveness of gun control. Bullchips!
These arguments are then most times followed from the pro-gun side by another set of endless statistics that completely counter the arguments just made by the anti-gun crowd. Unfortunately, these pro-gun statistics will never convince the anti-gunners no matter how obvious the numbers.
Nobody ever seems to believe the other guys’ statistics and there is a sound reason for that—statistics are a liar’s best friend and liars know that better than anyone.
I studied statistics in college and found that I could easily develop a long list of impressive numbers to support any argument on either side of an issue, creating virtually any impression I fancied. Politicians and the media do it all the time.
“So what good are all these statistics Colonel if we can’t use them to prove gun control just doesn’t work?”
Although statistics are good facts to have in your pocket, you really don’t need numbers to prove this point. The founders didn’t have any statistics so all you need is what they had in abundance—common sense. “What do you mean Colonel?”
Here are just 4 common sense points that illustrate why gun control is a myth, not a pathway to crime control—and not one point uses statistics.
Common Sense Point #1: Thugs ignore gun laws. To think that thugs who ignore laws against murder, robbery, rape and assault will, by some stretch of lunacy, obey gun control laws is the purest form of lunacy. Does anyone think that a gang planning a bank robbery will trash those plans because they would first be required to register their guns before the job went down?
Let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy planning…The Big Heist
“Well, Bugsy, there it is. Our plans for robbing the Last National Bank are absolutely fool-proof and dat cool million is just waitin’ on us. It’s just a cryin’ shame we can’t pull it off though.”
“Why Mugsy? What do you mean?” asks Bugsy incredulously.
“Because da law says we can’t carry unregistered guns or we could get into real trouble” says Mugsy as he resigns himself to the life of a law abiding citizen.
“You’re right.” admits Bugsy with a tear in his eye. We’ll just have to forget about dat million smackers. I certainly wouldn’t want to break any gun laws.”
And who really thinks that requiring a solid citizen to register his gun will prevent crime? He isn’t planning The Big Heist—never has, never will. So the point is?
Common Sense Point #2: Thugs prefer unarmed victims and avoid potentially armed citizens. Amazing bit of deductive reasoning isn’t it? Anti-gunners hope you never discover that truth on your own. Think about it though from the shoes of Mugsy and Bugsy. Who would you rather confront, an armed citizen or an unarmed one? Where would you rather focus your life of crime? In areas where guns are outlawed or where guns are prevalent? Who would you rather prey on, the defenseless or the armed? And where is violent crime more prevalent? Washington D.C. where gun laws are strictest or Florida where gun laws are more relaxed? I’ll give you one guess but let’s listen in on Mugsy and Bugsy again.
“OK Bugsy, the bank job was a flop I admit dat, but we can always pull a stick-up like in da ol’ days.”
“Yeah, dats right Mugsy. We can always get a little fast bread dat way.” says Bugsy, his excitement for the old days of street crime growing. “But where do we target da mark Mugsy?”
Well Bugsy, we sure can’t pull stick ups in Florida, too many guns there. We might could get shot by one of dem ol’ southern boys. You know how they are. A lot of ‘em is packin’ these days since Florida OK’d concealed carry—ya just never know down there anymore—a real shame ain’t it?”
“You’re right Mugsy. That could be way too dangerous for us.” “I got it!” says Bugsy, “We’ll hit every schmuck in Washington D.C. None of dem bums got guns…it’s against the law…we’ll be the only ones there what got heaters!”
“Great idea!” says Mugsy, “Let’s load up and git goin’. Easy pickins, here we come!”
Common Sense Point #3: Crime is deviant behavior. A gun is an inanimate tool not deviant behavior and crime is deviant behavior not an inanimate tool. You can’t prevent deviant behavior by regulating tools because tools are incapable of behavior and the number of tools available to the world’s deviants is endless.
Even if you could legislate guns out of existence, deviants could, would and have used other things that gave them a power advantage over their victims—knives, clubs, rocks or even sharp sticks—all of which are very legal and very accessible.
Commons Sense Point #4: The Trump Card. The strongest point of all consists of a mere 27 words and is absolute in its nature. It trumps all statistics ever concocted by man and all arguments ever made—and not one of the 27 words is a number… “A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.” #4, my friends, is absolute, unambiguous and supersedes all arguments and all statistics.
Now go forth soldier, well armed with common sense, the absolute truth of the II Amendment and ready to fight the good fight.
One last note: If you ever find any staunchly committed anti-gunner actually and honestly willing to listen to common sense or interpret the II Amendment simply as written by our founders, please let me know. I’m still looking for one.
Just the view from my saddle…
Uhhh....ooookay.
Saying we "anti-gunners" don't have common sense doesn't seem very nice now does it. I never called you or your NRA buddies stupid. I've merely made jokes about their closet autoerotic-asphyxiation techniques with their firearms...and a couple harmless jokes about how they use their guns to get off by sticking the barrel of their guns up their-ya know, never mind my jokes. Just saying I've never accused you of lacking common sense. Tsk tsk.
Bottom line is, people need guns because other people have guns. There wouldn't be any gun laws for thugs to ignore if there were no guns Even in self-defense incidents, murder seems silly. Incapacitating is just as effective. Get a taser, some mace.
2nd Amendment crap is irrelevant these days. They had no idea what their muskets were gonna turn into. It's especially frightening now that a plastic gun has been created that gets by all metal-detectors.
Don't really know why I'm giving the view from my 'saddle' since I'm stupid and lack common sense.
Oh well.
None of it matters, really. When the zombies come hatchets and baseball bats will be our best bets, anyways.
Please be a peach and point out where exactly this article states that anti-gunners do not have common sense. I can't seem to find it. However, if that's the perception you get, maybe it hit the nail on the head.
To each his own....and by own I mean my 270 rifle that I will confidently put in an intruder's face when he/she breaks into my house. (I live alone.)0 -
in the end its just sad. a guy died, heinously for no reason, at the hands of what appears to be a lunatic who does not represent what I believe to be true islam in any sense.
the truth is people die in horrible ways, all the time in darker corners of the world and its not reported.
it seems that the life of one is not equal to the life of another in the eyes of the media.
which makes it all sadder still.0
This discussion has been closed.
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