Soldier beheaded in streets of london....
Replies
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thats not terrorism, thats a guy with a machete.
BAGHDAD — A wave of car bombings and shootings hit cities in Iraq late Sunday and on Monday, killing at least 76 people and wounding more than 250, medical and security officials said. Some news agency reports put the overall toll even higher, at 86 or more dead.
source: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/21/world/middleeast/baghdad-basra-iraq-bombings.html
no threads about that tho eh.
Terrorism
noun
1. the use of violence or threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political or religious purposes
2. systematic use of violence or intimidation to achieve some goal or make a point
.....I'm fairly certain what they did is thee literal definition of terrorism-literally. Don't even bring up a silly point like that. However unfortunate it is, collateral damage is a part of war and conflict. It's unavoidable.
In the Middle East, extremists and insurgents intentionally choreograph their attacks and whatnot in areas full of innocents so that when the US/British/etc military go to respond they end up killing civilians. Fact. This is done intentionally to make citizens in the area where the conflict is occurring resentful of said countries/militaries so the citizens will become insurgent/terrorist sympathizers.
Collateral damage in war-torn areas is unavoidable...but a barbaric attack on a citizen whose country is sitting pretty in peace? Inexcusable.
I am deeply offended and disgusted by your post.
wait, what? hmmm.... not sure if dis is serious, or troll lvl: master.
back away slowly people. no sudden moves. dont make eye contact.
"Dat" was so funny!
Great rebuttal. Good job defending and explaining your post.
If we made a thread for every time someone was killed in Iraq, I'm pretty sure the site would overload. There's a thread about an innocent man getting hacked to death by a religious fanatic in Britain because there was an innocent man hacked to death by a religious fanatic in Britain.
Please attempt to contribute something relevant.
I would try, but I think I'd find it hard to break through your extreme brainwashing. my bad for being a bit off topic. fair call. i find it funny that you think insurgents need to try to goad troops into making the locals hate them, like an invading force wouldn't be enough. there wouldn't be collateral damage if there was no war. your a citizen of a country that invades other countries, even contravening the UN. so yeh, to you massive casualties are ok, because they were "collateral damage".
life a is a life no?
Uhh, where I said collateral damage is OK I can't seem to find, but ok!
Living in a country that invades other countries doesn't make ME an invader. And god knows the UK likes to follow right behind us and invade these countries.
Have you read anything about civilians sentiments toward America? While we're fighting their true enemy and giving the citizens food, schools, medical care, toiletries, laptops, etc etc. While their sons are being literally stolen away and reprogrammed to care only about what they want them to care about and put their families and own lives third and fourth to what the terrorists want them to make priority?
The US has definitely made bad decisions throughout history. But how many tyrannies have we helped get rid of? How much assistance have we given to peoples and nations in need?
I didn't say collateral damage is OK, don't put words in my mouth. I said it's UNAVOIDABLE. You're talking at me like I'm pro-war or something. Quite silly.
"Collateral damage in war-torn areas is unavoidable...but a barbaric attack on a citizen whose country is sitting pretty in peace? Inexcusable."
it would seem you are stating above that it is inexcusable in the latter, but excusable in the former because massive casualties can be expected.
to be honest I don't really care. clearly this means a lot to you, which is ok, its just a shame that you need to be so sharp and abrasive to people, at least from what I've seen in this thread. good luck with the crusade.
you should look up the documentary "life and debt", could be worth a watch.0 -
Seems the the response from most of our UK neighbors is you need to go to the source and get rid of these extremist preachers. How would that work though without encroaching on someone's religion?
I'd say that the UK should do what the French do....essentially ignore any bits of EU legislation they don't happen to fancy and do what suits them. The French banned the wearing of the Burka and good on them - there's absolutely no reason why such a symbol of female repression should be freely tolerated.
As it is, we spent millions of public money going through endless court cases fighting European courts every time we want to deport known extremists....like Abu Hamza who wasted years of court time and public money fighting extradition to the US...whilst spewing hate and encouraging violence in the UK.
oh, abu hamsa, now theres a recruitment advertisement for extremism if ever I saw one. An ugly blind guy with hooks for hands?
"join now and you can be just like me" - what? your an idiot who blew his hands off like some kind of scooby doo villain.
why would anyone be inspired to join the cause by that guy?
I ll tell you why..
Because their religeon teaches them they go to a better life so they dont give a monkies about death and welcome it and thats what your government didnt understand when they stired this mess up.
im not from merika dude.0 -
Seems the the response from most of our UK neighbors is you need to go to the source and get rid of these extremist preachers. How would that work though without encroaching on someone's religion?
I'd say that the UK should do what the French do....essentially ignore any bits of EU legislation they don't happen to fancy and do what suits them. The French banned the wearing of the Burka and good on them - there's absolutely no reason why such a symbol of female repression should be freely tolerated.
As it is, we spent millions of public money going through endless court cases fighting European courts every time we want to deport known extremists....like Abu Hamza who wasted years of court time and public money fighting extradition to the US...whilst spewing hate and encouraging violence in the UK.
oh, abu hamsa, now theres a recruitment advertisement for extremism if ever I saw one. An ugly blind guy with hooks for hands?
"join now and you can be just like me" - what? your an idiot who blew his hands off like some kind of scooby doo villain.
why would anyone be inspired to join the cause by that guy?
I ll tell you why..
Because their religeon teaches them they go to a better life so they dont give a monkies about death and welcome it and thats what your government didnt understand when they stired this mess up.
im not from merika dude.
ok ..
less of an excuse for being ignorant !!!!
( cant help it they bite so easy !)0 -
Take a class on critical thinking then when someone comes at you with an argument that you dont agree with you can learn to debate it without personal attacks.
I never stated I had a theory all I stated was how scary it was that I could be walking down the street and have someone start cutting off my head and not know when I would get help. We did have a similar attack in America not long ago this man started to eat the face of a homeless man! There was no political agenda.
Fair enough, if you say you are not using this awful case to advance a your own political view point, then I can accept that. Perhaps it was the way your worded your post. Made you sound like an *kitten*. So I called you an *kitten*. If that's not what you meant, then I retract the *kitten* portion of my reply.
I hope one day to learn some of the "critical thinking" stuff you mention. Seems like it could come in useful!0 -
Why was the soldier alone? In my military experience, we were often in pairs or larger groups. What took the police so long? I am so sad for the soldiers family.
One of the attackers had a revolver, the police had to wait for the armed response unit. In the US it wouldn't take long as their gun laws are different, in the UK the old bill have to wait, just as well they did too, one of the attackers ran at the police with the gun, hence they shot them both.
What the attackers were armed?!?! This doesnt cause anyone for concern?
Yes of course they were armed with a machette and a revolver, well one of them was anyway with the gun.
Look for crying out loud, have 95% of the people on this thread done ANY research on this story at all or is everybody just reacting to the "have gun/have no gun" debate?
No why use hard facts when you can just spout anything you like? *head desk*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html
The two black men in their 20s, waited calmly for armed police to arrive before charging at officers brandishing a rusty revolver, knives and meat cleavers.
When the old pistol was shot towards police it backfired and blew the thumb off one of the men.
Moments later they were cut down in a hail of bullets believed to be fired by a woman marksman. Last night both men were being treated in hospital for their wounds and will face questioning. Mother-of-two Ingrid Loyau-Kennett bravely remonstrated with one of the killers in the aftermath of the terror attack.
After pleading with them to hand her the weapons, one told her: 'We want to start a war in London tonight'.
She replied: 'Right now it is only you versus many people, you are going to lose'.
Ms Loyau-Kennett said she was not trained in any way to deal with the situation - she used to be a teacher.
Good job on all the ladies in this event. I knew the women of Britain were resolute and strong. The pictures are disgusting. I dont see how anyone could watch the video.0 -
Seems the the response from most of our UK neighbors is you need to go to the source and get rid of these extremist preachers. How would that work though without encroaching on someone's religion?
I'd say that the UK should do what the French do....essentially ignore any bits of EU legislation they don't happen to fancy and do what suits them. The French banned the wearing of the Burka and good on them - there's absolutely no reason why such a symbol of female repression should be freely tolerated.
As it is, we spent millions of public money going through endless court cases fighting European courts every time we want to deport known extremists....like Abu Hamza who wasted years of court time and public money fighting extradition to the US...whilst spewing hate and encouraging violence in the UK.
oh, abu hamsa, now theres a recruitment advertisement for extremism if ever I saw one. An ugly blind guy with hooks for hands?
"join now and you can be just like me" - what? your an idiot who blew his hands off like some kind of scooby doo villain.
why would anyone be inspired to join the cause by that guy?
I ll tell you why..
Because their religeon teaches them they go to a better life so they dont give a monkies about death and welcome it and thats what your government didnt understand when they stired this mess up.
im not from merika dude.
ok ..
less of an excuse for being ignorant !!!!
( cant help it they bite so easy !)
im not ignorant, I was kind of taking the piss, but yes, I do struggle to see how a man who managed to simultaneously blow his hands off whilst blinding himself is particularly inspirational.
i think that those who wanted to get into it, knew what they were getting into. oil mostly. why is this thread still here?0 -
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html
The two black men in their 20s, waited calmly for armed police to arrive before charging at officers brandishing a rusty revolver, knives and meat cleavers.
When the old pistol was shot towards police it backfired and blew the thumb off one of the men.
Moments later they were cut down in a hail of bullets believed to be fired by a woman marksman. Last night both men were being treated in hospital for their wounds and will face questioning. Mother-of-two Ingrid Loyau-Kennett bravely remonstrated with one of the killers in the aftermath of the terror attack.
After pleading with them to hand her the weapons, one told her: 'We want to start a war in London tonight'.
She replied: 'Right now it is only you versus many people, you are going to lose'.
Ms Loyau-Kennett said she was not trained in any way to deal with the situation - she used to be a teacher.
Good job on all the ladies in this event. I knew the women of Britain were resolute and strong. The pictures are disgusting. I dont see how anyone could watch the video.
Ugh...The Daily Fail0 -
No why use hard facts when you can just spout anything you like? *head desk*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html
I know you're not from the UK so can't be expected to know this, but the Daily Mail don't do facts, they do sensationalism and never let reality get in the way of a good story. They make Fox News look like the guardians of tolerance.0 -
What's wearing a shirt going to accomplish?0
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No why use hard facts when you can just spout anything you like? *head desk*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html
I know you're not from the UK so can't be expected to know this, but the Daily Mail don't do facts, they do sensationalism and never let reality get in the way of a good story. They make Fox News look like the guardians of tolerance.
:laugh: so true...0 -
No why use hard facts when you can just spout anything you like? *head desk*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html
I know you're not from the UK so can't be expected to know this, but the Daily Mail don't do facts, they do sensationalism and never let reality get in the way of a good story. They make Fox News look like the guardians of tolerance.
I just grabbed the first source that popped up because I thought the woman who confronted them was so brave. CNN brought up the time thing too, and FOX just quoted Associated Press which I guess was taking from the Daily Telegraph? BBC of course had the most coverage it seemed online.0 -
What's wearing a shirt going to accomplish?
The same thing that people uniforms, ribbons, wrist bands, arm bands accomplishes.
A community unified against a common enemy
Solidarity and refusal to buckle in the face of threats
Remembrance of a person by doing what he did
A peaceful means of demonstrating support
... or simply, a donation to Help the Heroes.0 -
I am a member of other groups and forums, and find it really interesting that this is the only place where use of guns has been brought up.
It just shows teh different mind-set of the Brits and the Americans.
I for one am glad we don't have guns freely available. In this instance, it wouldn't have saved the young cadet, but would have probably resulted in more deaths.
As for why the police here don't shoot to kill - they want to capture the attackers alive, to question them, find out if anyone else is involved, and the information they get will hopefully lead to more arrests, and prevent further incidents.
Dead people can't talk.0 -
No why use hard facts when you can just spout anything you like? *head desk*
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2329089/Woolwich-attack-Two-men-hack-soldier-wearing-Help-Heroes-T-shirt-death-machetes-suspected-terror-attack.html
I know you're not from the UK so can't be expected to know this, but the Daily Mail don't do facts, they do sensationalism and never let reality get in the way of a good story. They make Fox News look like the guardians of tolerance.
I just grabbed the first source that popped up because I thought the woman who confronted them was so brave. CNN brought up the time thing too, and FOX just quoted Associated Press which I guess was taking from the Daily Telegraph? BBC of course had the most coverage it seemed online.
I don't think there's a journalistic environment that can be considered wholly reliable. e.g. "hail of bullets". There were 4. 4 bullets. Not even the 6 reported. 4. 2 per person. She was a good shot and fired after they ran towards her waving their weapons around.0 -
They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.
He wasn't a hero, he was a 20yr old guy on his way back from working at the army recruitment office an unfortunately became the tragic victim of two fundamentalist nutjobs. Merely joining the military doesn't automatically make one a hero....nor, indeed, does carrying out one's duties in a theatre of war. Going above and beyond the call of duty to help others, with no regard for one's personal welfare makes one a hero.
The word 'hero' is so over-used these days it's pretty much meaningless.
Now on the gun question. It is not our culture to have open and near-unrestricted gun ownership. It's not even our culture to arm all police. That isn't going to change anytime soon as the majority of the British public, me included, don't want greater freedom to own guns. We can already own rifles if we pass police checks, obtain a licence and comply with the restrictions on usage.
Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.
He has recently been to Afghanistan, dunno where you got your info from. He was 25 years old, not 20 and a father of atwo and half year old boy.0 -
Disgusting! I have to say that I am not a supporter of the Irag or Afghanistan wars but I 100% wholeheartedly support our soldiers! If I can scrape together the money my partner, our daughter and I will all be doing this!0
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According to BBC sources, Mr Adebolajo, a Briton of Nigerian descent, comes from a devout Christian family but took up Islam after leaving college in 2001.
Not sure how that's relevant though. Whatever he said, he wasn't doing it in the name of Islam, he was doing it in the name of psychopathy. I could teabag a nun whilst shouting prayers to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, wouldn't warrant a war on Pastafarianism, just suggest that I needed sectioning.
Now that is funny!0 -
We don't want guns here thank you..
The actions of a few do not represent the masses.
What's funny is that what you just said there at the bottom is actually an argument used by a lot of your counterparts, and kind of hypocritical, if I were to play devil's advocate here for a minute.
The original quote is from me.
What exactly do you mean by "my counterparts"?
And please explain what is hypocritical about stating that a few peoples crazy actions do not represent an entire sector of any society.
I am quite offended by this.0 -
They can hack to death an unarmed HERO and there will be no help forthcoming for at least 20 minutes because even the police are unarmed? Astonishing.
He wasn't a hero, he was a 20yr old guy on his way back from working at the army recruitment office an unfortunately became the tragic victim of two fundamentalist nutjobs. Merely joining the military doesn't automatically make one a hero....nor, indeed, does carrying out one's duties in a theatre of war. Going above and beyond the call of duty to help others, with no regard for one's personal welfare makes one a hero.
The word 'hero' is so over-used these days it's pretty much meaningless.
Now on the gun question. It is not our culture to have open and near-unrestricted gun ownership. It's not even our culture to arm all police. That isn't going to change anytime soon as the majority of the British public, me included, don't want greater freedom to own guns. We can already own rifles if we pass police checks, obtain a licence and comply with the restrictions on usage.
Personally what I'd like is more ability to kick religious extremists out of the country if they weren't born here, to shut-down radical clerics/preachers and to haul people in for questioning a bit quicker if, like these 2 guys, they were already known to security services.
He has recently been to Afghanistan, dunno where you got your info from. He was 25 years old, not 20 and a father of atwo and half year old boy.
Also you can only work in the Army recruitment office if you are in the armed forces.0
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