#3 Why calorie in calorie out ALONE isnt enough.

Note1: if you think im a troll bc of some other post please, save yourself the aggravation and simply skip over this post.

If you disagree with my post's content, please SPECIFY a FACTUAL disagreement you have with what ive said (im hardly perfect and will be wrong im sure as I was in phrasing my criticism of strict calorie in/out thinking and mislabeling insulin resistance) and stop littering the forum with nonsense apart from specific points of contention.

Note 2: A lot of what I am writing is sort of being put in non-clinical/academic terms....I admitted that from the outset, but in no way does that mean the underlying concepts are wrong. Please, I am not trying to construct an article for a peer review journal here, so consider that before posting...

Note 3: FOR THE LAST TIME; people who consume less calories than they expend will lose weight. My criticism has to so with CENTERING your weight loss/maintenance JUST on tracking calories in/out bc I DO NOT BELIEVE it to be a very feasible form of weight maintenance in the long term just as someone kindly pointed out already in the previous thread.

Why if I can simply track my calories in and out do you say centering my weight loss/maintenance on solely CI/CO would be problematic?

Well, there are 2 real parts to my answer...1, it is hard to be precise in knowing what your calories out are in a given day/week or month because that number isnt static and those numbers are different for different people. The std deviation (ill try to find the linky) between a simple calculator-derived bmr and a precisely measured one from a lab is usually +- 150-175 Kcals.... a day.

That works out to 1225/1050 Kcals a week or about 17lbs a yr if you average the range.....that isnt negligible at all. That actually is quite huge in terms of weight management. Also, people underestimate the role of activity levels and intense workouts in resting BMR all the times....im sure youve heard the modest claims about how little adding muscle actually burns passively....but have you considered that there is an added activity workload to just maintain those lean pounds and in performing them you have innately raised you caloric expenditures...???

My points is broader than all this; CI/CO is just way too simplistic of a way of looking at our body in the long run....changes happen, activity levels matter and ultimately as we will discuss next, it isnt easy keeping to a calorie limitation for the next 30/40 or 50 yrs without helping yourself by treating the problem....which is....

Most people who have the capacity to become significantly overweight become ravenously hungry at times based on what they are eating and the gaps between feeding times.

NO, IM NOT TALKING TO ALL PEOPLE HERE....Just the people like me who could sit down and eat a box of crispix/rice krispies from a salad bowl bc they simply do achieve satiety through eating simple - often processsed carbs- 2-3 times daily.

For those who do not have this issue, god bless you...you probably can deal with an emotional or medical issue and lose weight fairly easily generally. Use the MFP tools, and enjoy your slim life.

For those who know they have issues with the things ive been talking about the next part is aimed at you/.

So what is it you actually mean regarding CI/CO...can you give me an example?

Yes,

Imagine genetically identical twins both dieting....or attempting to intiate a weight maintenance program:

Twin A- likes waking up and having some simple carbs maybe some milk....then eating half a subway sub for lunch and a bag of baked lays and then a small serving of lasagna and some mashed potatoes for dinner. He has 2 "snacks" consisting of 100Kcal snack bags by a leading snack company that are almost entirely made up of processed carbs.

It is hard, but with support and tonnes of will power he keeps to under X Kcals a day...every day for 6 months and with some added walking he loses 25 lbs.

GREAT!

Twin B- likes to wake up and have some steel cut oatmeal, small bunch of berries, skim milk and some natural PB for breakfast. He then packs himself 2 meals and a snack of light reduced sugar choc milk and a handful of almonds/ skim cheese stick. He splits his meals evenly calorically pretty much but shades simple carb ingestion towards earlier in the day and post workout. He eats a mixture of veggies, whole grains, lean proteins and lean dairy sources with some fruit occasionally but limited to breakfast/post workout.

Twin B engages in CI/CO pretty regularly, but learns to intuitively portion properly and actually finds his hunger to be regular and usually within 1 hour of a meal so manageable. He works out a bit more than Twin A and integrates resistance training 2-3 times a week for 50 mins each session....

Twin B loses 20lb over 6 months...Great!


My question is quite simple:

WHO HAS BEEN MORE SUCCESSFUL?....was it the person who lost the most weight, or the person who has come to understand how to best MANAGE their health, appetite, eating best?

I suppose that is a matter of opinion, but my point should be quite clear; CI/CO is a tool, just a tool. It is not a program to help people learn how to live a healthy lifestyle, maintain their weight loss/ a healthy weight or even relate properly with food IF THEY ARE FACED WITH THE VERY COMMON issues I described above.



Ok, BUT you just conceded that CI/CO will help me lose weight...so what is your beef with it?


Calorie in/Calorie out is PROBLEMATIC because it treats the symptoms of the problem (overeating/under- moving) not the problem itself which is that too many Americans eat low quality foods in the incorrect macronutrtional ratios not often enough during the day. When coupled with inactivity and energy issues (which are also rooted somewhat in the fundamental problem), they gain more and more weight, have less and less energy and often turn towards emotional eating based on guilt/distress over weight gain.

AGAIN, im speaking to a group of people with a distinct problem regarding eating and processed/simple carbs...but I believe this group to make up the bulk of the chronically overweight community. The response we have to certain amounts of simple carbs and certain eating patterns is not necessarily a maladaptation.....but it has become so bc of the very unnatural diet we eat in the west and the very inefficient feeding times we maintain in general.

If there is a desire for parts #4 and #5 ....i'll consider writing them.

so what do you want to discuss?

you told us what you think, i have to ask

and?

do you want testimonials or questions?

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

I couldn't get through your really long post, but Harvard would disagree with you.

Nobody ever said calories in vs. calories out alone is the key to a healthy lifestyle, only the key to WEIGHT LOSS.

What good is a temporary weight loss to anyone if they simply are going to gain back most if not more of the weight in the long run?

Maybe we've gotten to the root of the difference between a lot of you guys and me...who knows.

Most people can lose weight in a limited span of time...so what?

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-prevention-source/obesity-causes/diet-and-weight/

I couldn't get through your really long post, but Harvard would disagree with you.

TLDR either