1200, and why it won't work

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

2. most doctors are contact of last resort. you don't see a doctor while you are gaining weight, you see them when you've gained too much weight that it threatens your health. most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention....that is unless they keep up with peer reviewed studies. If they do...it's in the area of disease correction, instead of prevention. Although all doctors have fundamental knowledge of how to prevent disease, not all of them update their knowledge profiles bi monthly.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Actually, as you pointed out, you are eight years of school away from being a doctor. A lot of stuff happens in eight years of education; I've learned that working on my own doctorate.

Doctor's don't and shouldn't have to be a last resort. I don't even get where you're saying that people don't see doctors while they are gaining weight. If people aren't getting regular physicals there are a lot of health problems they could be overlooking aside from obesity. Encouraging them to use you as a substitute isn't helping anyone. I'm also not sure your critical thinking skills are up to par. I clearly already outlined that people should see specialists in nutrition and internal medicine. I said myself that most doctors undergo only hours of nutritional training--but still they are more licensed and trained than you. That's a fact. Certainly a nutritionist would put you to shame.

And finally, you did not seriously just champion yourself for your knowledge of "beach ready" bodies? Yeah, I don't think a lot of doctors are marketing that...you know...because a beach ready body isn't the main indicator of health.

If you can't see the informative nature of my original response, where I even gave you the courtesy of saying you had good intentions, you're really off. This is a forum; it's a place of discussion. You have no need to be threatened. You seriously don't want obese and morbidly obese people to have a reminder to seek medical help, to find out if they have any underlying medical problems before jumping in to a diet? That's just negligence.

First of all a "nutritionist" is just a glorified personal trainer. They, at best retain the knowledge of their textbooks, with some or little further following of the continued science in the field. And admittedly that's enough to address 99% of the issues we are facing in this overweight culture.

So, no. A nutritionist will never put me to shame. They can only tell me what substrate metabolism aught to do. They will never be able to cater it to specific cases. They cannot cater profiles according to nutrient partitioning. They will not grant ideas on acetyle-COA pathways given substrate quality. Any undergrad bio major destroys all nutritionists by a mile. Once you cut into the cadavers in M2? Well you get the idea.

The original post was to alert people to the danger of eating 1200 calories a day. You recommend to consult a doctor based on my more MODEST, and SAFE recommendation of finding a better baseline? Absurd. Most doctors will tell you that eating 1200 calories a day is insane.

So...was it just a ploy to undermine my understanding of the subject, or did I really strike a personal chord? If so, I apologize, and let that be that.

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

2. most doctors are contact of last resort. you don't see a doctor while you are gaining weight, you see them when you've gained too much weight that it threatens your health. most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention....that is unless they keep up with peer reviewed studies. If they do...it's in the area of disease correction, instead of prevention. Although all doctors have fundamental knowledge of how to prevent disease, not all of them update their knowledge profiles bi monthly.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Actually, as you pointed out, you are eight years of school away from being a doctor. A lot of stuff happens in eight years of education; I've learned that working on my own doctorate.

Doctor's don't and shouldn't have to be a last resort. I don't even get where you're saying that people don't see doctors while they are gaining weight. If people aren't getting regular physicals there are a lot of health problems they could be overlooking aside from obesity. Encouraging them to use you as a substitute isn't helping anyone. I'm also not sure your critical thinking skills are up to par. I clearly already outlined that people should see specialists in nutrition and internal medicine. I said myself that most doctors undergo only hours of nutritional training--but still they are more licensed and trained than you. That's a fact. Certainly a nutritionist would put you to shame.

And finally, you did not seriously just champion yourself for your knowledge of "beach ready" bodies? Yeah, I don't think a lot of doctors are marketing that...you know...because a beach ready body isn't the main indicator of health.

If you can't see the informative nature of my original response, where I even gave you the courtesy of saying you had good intentions, you're really off. This is a forum; it's a place of discussion. You have no need to be threatened. You seriously don't want obese and morbidly obese people to have a reminder to seek medical help, to find out if they have any underlying medical problems before jumping in to a diet? That's just negligence.

First of all a "nutritionist" is just a glorified personal trainer. They, at best retain the knowledge of their textbooks, with some or little further following of the continued science in the field. And admittedly that's enough to address 99% of the issues we are facing in this overweight culture.

So, no. A nutritionist will never put me to shame. They can only tell me what substrate metabolism aught to do. They will never be able to cater it to specific cases. They cannot cater profiles according to nutrient partitioning. They will not grant ideas on acetyle-COA pathways given substrate quality. Any undergrad bio major destroys all nutritionists by a mile. Once you cut into the cadavers in M2? Well you get the idea.

The original post was to alert people to the danger of eating 1200 calories a day. You recommend to consult a doctor based on my more MODEST, and SAFE recommendation of finding a better baseline? Absurd. Most doctors will tell you that eating 1200 calories a day is insane.

So...was it just a ploy to undermine my understanding of the subject, or did I really strike a personal chord? If so, I apologize, and let that be that.

you can hold the title of nutritionist without having a degree in anything! That's so wrong..but it's so true.

Chiming in...

The OP's advice is sound. While is is long drawn out and does have a somewhat sense of flattering his self and his knowledge, it is still correct.

People arguing against him have honestly fielded the most absurd arguments I have heard here.

Suggesting that EVERYONE that EVER wants to lose ANY weight should be medically checked out first is absolutely ridiculous. It is the silliest piece of nonsense I have ever heard on MFP.

Arguing that since he lacks a specific degree in a related field does nothing. One does not need to be given a degree in order for one to know what they are talking about. Most people on MFP do not have mathematics degrees but still can claim to know how to add simple integers.

The TL;DR version of the OP's message:

Do not immediately go for the lowest possible calories you can. Ease your way into a sustainable caloric level that still achieves your weight loss goals.

I seriously cannot figure out how or why anyone would argue against this fine idea.

It was very clear that I was addressing obese and morbidly obese individuals. And they should indeed seek medical consult.

It was very clear that I was addressing obese and morbidly obese individuals. And they should indeed seek medical consult.

Wasn't clear at all.

MFP should make people read this when they sign up! Nice Job!

It was very clear that I was addressing obese and morbidly obese individuals. And they should indeed seek medical consult.

Wasn't clear at all.

Seriously, did you not read the following line: "If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop..." Does that not highlight the target audience enough for you? It is absolutely astounding that you are both so unsupportive of obese and morbidly obese folks seeking medical consult...and resistent to seeing how it might be even slightly more informed than an internet forum.

To the other poster who inquired if I'm against obese people eating less--sheesh--clearly not the objective of my statement. However, if you are looking to lose 100, 150, 200, or more pounds--yes, you're going to want blood work done regularly and additional testing to check for underlying problems. It's just the smart thing. I'm done here. There was nothing remotely threatening in my advice.

every single one of those 1200 calorie (or less) per day people need to read this...

I'm sure the original poster posted this with good intention, but it is medical advice and people should be seeing actual nutritionists and doctors. I don't understand why, when people post other medical questions in MFP, members are quick to urge them to get to a doctor. However, when calculating your daily nutritional needs, people are gobbling up the info of someone who, "obtained [a] NASM personal training certification, which was a breeze." What? That's as dull as merely following MFP's recommendations without question. This fellow took a thirty minute exam after a few months of studying. Most medical doctors only have mere hours of nutritional training and that's still significant compared to what he has. The mythical "Monica" could have had a thyroid disorder or, like I have, PCOS. These things alter your metabolisms so significantly that you need someone truly skilled in helping you find the right balance. You might even, as I have had to do, have to see internists as well.

If you're obese and looking for answers here, please stop. No, don't start at 1200. Don't start at 3000. Don't start without tests for diabetes, PCOS, Insulin Resistance, etc. "Monica" was rather lucky in this scenario, but it's hardly a case study; if you are obese or morbidly obese, there is a chance underlying conditions are helping you stay that way. You're going to feel better having medical clearance anyway when you want to begin exercise. For example, he had a six week period of Monica not loosing. Eventually she did again. We don't know how her diet's composition change. Did she alter carbs/fats/etc? Did she begin drinking more water? Taking supplements? How many people think 1200 isn't working and push on for six weeks without result? Not many. Yes, Monica seems to have had a decent amount of will power and a load of blind faith, but she could have very well had the same stall and restart at 1200, 1400, 1600, or 2000 calories. There are just too many factors to consider. She could have had more plateaus than he could have accounted for; what then?

Two things I find wrong about this kind of hostility:

1. I am a bio major. went through 2 years of med school, took all the orgo, chem, biochem, and associated classes, before deciding that 8 more years of school would put me into too much debt. for all educational purposes, I'm a doctor.

2. most doctors are contact of last resort. you don't see a doctor while you are gaining weight, you see them when you've gained too much weight that it threatens your health. most doctors will tell you to eat less. they have NO idea about the current studies and literature pertaining to human weight loss, performance nutrition, and optimal disease prevention....that is unless they keep up with peer reviewed studies. If they do...it's in the area of disease correction, instead of prevention. Although all doctors have fundamental knowledge of how to prevent disease, not all of them update their knowledge profiles bi monthly.

3. I exist in some grey space, outside of personal trainers who charge money, and oustide of doctors who know nothing about being "beach-ready". I exist to help. If you have a problem with that, I suggest you take it elsewhere.

Actually, as you pointed out, you are eight years of school away from being a doctor. A lot of stuff happens in eight years of education; I've learned that working on my own doctorate.

Doctor's don't and shouldn't have to be a last resort. I don't even get where you're saying that people don't see doctors while they are gaining weight. If people aren't getting regular physicals there are a lot of health problems they could be overlooking aside from obesity. Encouraging them to use you as a substitute isn't helping anyone. I'm also not sure your critical thinking skills are up to par. I clearly already outlined that people should see specialists in nutrition and internal medicine. I said myself that most doctors undergo only hours of nutritional training--but still they are more licensed and trained than you. That's a fact. Certainly a nutritionist would put you to shame.

And finally, you did not seriously just champion yourself for your knowledge of "beach ready" bodies? Yeah, I don't think a lot of doctors are marketing that...you know...because a beach ready body isn't the main indicator of health.

If you can't see the informative nature of my original response, where I even gave you the courtesy of saying you had good intentions, you're really off. This is a forum; it's a place of discussion. You have no need to be threatened. You seriously don't want obese and morbidly obese people to have a reminder to seek medical help, to find out if they have any underlying medical problems before jumping in to a diet? That's just negligence.