Women on the front lines??

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  • k8blujay2
    k8blujay2 Posts: 4,941 Member
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    Women have led and fought on the battlefields for centuries... People like Lady Anne Farquharson-MacKintosh and Catherine of Aragon (Henry VIII's first wife) come to mind... Hell, even in Greek Mythology goddesses are depicted as warriors.
  • rob1976
    rob1976 Posts: 1,328 Member
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    If they want it, let them have it. They don't know what they're in for***.

    Just like Shannon Faulkner: "Let me in! Let me in! Wait, let me out! Let me out!"

    ***I am a 2-time combat Veteran.
  • usmcmp
    usmcmp Posts: 21,220 Member
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    If they think women aren't already out there sending rounds down range they are ignorant. I've had multiple friends who were shot and blown up. All my female friends left the wire and engaged in combat. It doesn't mean that's the job they signed up to do. There are plenty of women I served with that I would never want beside me when **** hit the fan (and some men too). Some people in general can't stand up to that kind of stress and some function very well under that kind of stress.

    Ditto...as a former Marine, I most definitely concur.

    One thing I always worried about when this subject would come up was that in my prime, I was 175Lbs of pretty much LBM...If I went down, would she be able to get me out? That was really my only concern; other than that, I knew some pretty awesome WMs.

    Once a Marine always a Marine! :P I could haul you out no problem. That's part of the combat fit test we go through annually now. I would have no problem hauling you and 40 pounds of gear. :drinker:
  • Lisa1971
    Lisa1971 Posts: 3,069 Member
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    But there are just certain things that we (women) are not and will not ever be able to be equal with men at on a regular basis.

    Yeah, I can't quite piss out a campfire the same way my dh does. :laugh: :tongue:
  • darkguardian419
    darkguardian419 Posts: 1,302 Member
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    It takes a special kind of woman to do certain things.
    Being a submariner myself, it takes a special kind of person in general... other nations have had success with female submariners, and our field tests for the us navy have been going "ok"... with that said, not everyone is ready for every job in the military. I'm good at my job (submarine communications), but I'd be a horrible combat engineer and vice versa.

    Any program like that, where women are being authorized where they previously weren't is going to be under intense scrutiny and pressure. There are going to be people against the change (I don't agree with female submariners)... but, other countries pull it off just fine.

    The attitude surrounding the whole idea has to change before it will be fully successful. I'm willing to deal with the change, but people need to acknowledge that there WILL be problems, there WILL be issues and growing pains before it becomes second-nature to everyone. Maybe in 10 years it won't be "weird" to see these changes, but for now it will not be easy.

    ETA: I'm all for the change, it just has to be approached logically.
  • LethainIowa
    LethainIowa Posts: 43
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    Women serve on the front lines in Israel. So already your point is blown out of the water.

    A poli-sci teacher told me this in college:

    "In combat should you come across a woman and two men coming to get you.. kill the woman first. The men will stop to help her. In combat the woman will not stop to help the men. She will also kill you quicker and more viciously than the two men."

    NEVER underestimate a woman.

    ^ Agree 100%.

    If women want to be "equal" we can't pick and choose where. Either we are equal across the board, or we aren't equal at all. And as far as what could be done to a prisoner of war (female)..I'm sure things very similar could be done to a man if they wanted to.
  • mattagascar
    mattagascar Posts: 708 Member
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    If a woman wants to fight on the front lines, who gives a F#$, her choice. God bless her.
  • kayleen_longworth
    kayleen_longworth Posts: 147 Member
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    You will never know what you are fully capable of doing until you are pushed to your limits...I learned this in basic training. Some women are not capable of being on the front lines the same as some men are not capable. There are some women I would prefer to stand next to on the front lines than some men. Besides - throughout history, women have always been out there, whether it was allowed or not.

    Truth! Whether we are allowed on front lines or not, women are still in danger in war zones regardless of their jobs. Convoys are hit by IEDs all the time, mortar attacks, woman are driving those trucks as well. Women are in the turrets of the security/gun trucks protecting those convoys. Women are the medics that are sent along with the convoys. Women are the drivers of the wrecker/tow trucks that pick up disabled vehicles. Our convoys were often 50% women. We did the same jobs the men did.

    There are no front lines in modern warfare. The front line is where ever the current fighting is taking place, and there are no predesignated spots. We (soldiers - male and female) were attacked on base, we were attacked where ever the convoys happened to be. What is pictured in most peoples' minds vs. actual reality are often not the same thing. This isn't the 1800s militia where you know you will be going hand to hand combat. But things still happen that are not preplanned and predetermined. That is what all training is about. The what if's. There are no true safe zones when you're overseas and working directly with the locals. There is just as much corruption over there as there is with our own government.

    The people on the "front lines" are the ones that are trained for that scenario. If you make it through training, then you are considered able to do the job. Again you are trained for the job. If you don't make it through training, you don't do the job. They aren't just going to put females in these combat units and send them out on foot patrol without training.

    We all like to think of women as soft and nurturing and fragile, but we are just as strong (proportionately) as men. We all have different strengths and weaknesses whether we are male or female.
  • Mr_Bad_Example
    Mr_Bad_Example Posts: 2,403 Member
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    So I heard this morning on the radio that the US Military is now going to allow women on the front lines. I am all for the gender equality bit in business. For example, I do the same job as a guy but he gets paid considerably more isn't right. Equal pay for equal work is how I feel. But there are just certain things that we (women) are not and will not ever be able to be equal with men at on a regular basis. I also think that worse things will happen to a woman if she were ever captured than would a man. How do you feel about the new ruling?

    If you want equality, you can't pick and choose what you'd like to be equal in. If anyone joins the military, they should expect that they may have to put their lives on the line, no matter what color, religion, sexual orientation, or gender they happen to be.
  • Artillerybabe
    Artillerybabe Posts: 9 Member
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    Woman are and have practically been doing roles that are front line involved for at least the past decade! Well in the British Army at least, I think unless you have been in that situation you have very little knowledge or experience to enable you to make fair judgement, although of course everyone is entitled to their opinions! its not necessarily about gender but more so character and the individuals ability, a lot of various traits go into making a good soldier, integrity, determination etc.. btw I have been in the forces and did do a short package tour to Iraq. Although not really sure of the point of this particuar debate on here! Im not American either. :smokin:
  • _SusieQ_
    _SusieQ_ Posts: 2,964 Member
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    If they think women aren't already out there sending rounds down range they are ignorant. I've had multiple friends who were shot and blown up. All my female friends left the wire and engaged in combat. It doesn't mean that's the job they signed up to do. There are plenty of women I served with that I would never want beside me when **** hit the fan (and some men too). Some people in general can't stand up to that kind of stress and some function very well under that kind of stress.

    Ditto...as a former Marine, I most definitely concur.

    One thing I always worried about when this subject would come up was that in my prime, I was 175Lbs of pretty much LBM...If I went down, would she be able to get me out? That was really my only concern; other than that, I knew some pretty awesome WMs.

    Once a Marine always a Marine! :P I could haul you out no problem. That's part of the combat fit test we go through annually now. I would have no problem hauling you and 40 pounds of gear. :drinker:

    This mix right here should just be the end of this thread. Can't get any better than this.
  • Cr01502
    Cr01502 Posts: 3,614 Member
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    I like joking that about the sexes, but in reality I believe if a person wants to do something, they should not be denied because of their sex. Yes, there are things that seem to be more suited for either a male or female, but if that person is suited/capable to do something, their sex should not be the deciding factor if they can or can’t be allowed to do that something.

    This.

    Leave it up to them.

    Women have just as much right to be on the front lines as men.

    Regardless of other's opinions on their capabilities.
  • _Witsy_
    _Witsy_ Posts: 609 Member
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    If they think women aren't already out there sending rounds down range they are ignorant. I've had multiple friends who were shot and blown up. All my female friends left the wire and engaged in combat. It doesn't mean that's the job they signed up to do. There are plenty of women I served with that I would never want beside me when **** hit the fan (and some men too). Some people in general can't stand up to that kind of stress and some function very well under that kind of stress.

    Ditto...as a former Marine, I most definitely concur.

    One thing I always worried about when this subject would come up was that in my prime, I was 175Lbs of pretty much LBM...If I went down, would she be able to get me out? That was really my only concern; other than that, I knew some pretty awesome WMs.

    Once a Marine always a Marine! :P I could haul you out no problem. That's part of the combat fit test we go through annually now. I would have no problem hauling you and 40 pounds of gear. :drinker:

    This mix right here should just be the end of this thread. Can't get any better than this.
    Agreed.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,789 Member
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    What I find funny here is, many people are missing why women were not allowed on the front lines and how much "the front line" has changed.

    The front line isn't the same anymore. The "font line" really isn't hand to hand like it used to be.


    As gross as this sounds, women weren't necessarily not allowed from the front line because they physically couldn't handle the job. Take this for what it's worth, I've had cadre from West Point (Male and Female) and it makes complete sense....basically a big sticking point had been "at certain times of the month women can be picked up by tracking animals".
  • chocl8girl
    chocl8girl Posts: 1,968 Member
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  • breeshabebe
    breeshabebe Posts: 580
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    Yikes! Touchy subject. I think that it would be difficult for men to work with women on the front lines. An army guy friend of mine told me that when a woman steps into the equation, men naturally will try to defend or help her out. It's not that women are weak and can't do her job... but even "nowadays" good men try to protect women. The mission becomes "protect her, and do my job" rather than just "do my job." Sometimes, theres not room for both.

    If someone put me on the front lines.... I'd be an emotional crazy wreck. But thats just me.

    Hearsay is not always the truth. I know a bunch of men that didn't cut it in combat. They had to go home crying. Sex had nothing to do with it, at all.

    Prejudice against women is taught to most of us. We have to leave the old world thoughts behind. That “men couldn’t control themselves” excuse is used in the Middle East as a reason women’s faces should be covered. It sounds just as injudicious in that situation as it does in this one. We women can work, drive, vote, run for office and fight in wars.

    True... Hearsay/experience is not always truth. This is my opinion. Also, I'm from the south... and the guys/people around me are pretty traditional/protective.

    I think that sometimes us, ladies have a quick-kneejerk-freakout-response to things like this. I wouldn't say that I agree with the OP's approach... or even with everything that she's said... but I think we can discuss it without getting nasty (not that you were) or without putting down guys. I hate when women try to prove they are strong by "outdoing" or putting down men. When men do that to us, we call them jerks.
  • ArroganceInStep
    ArroganceInStep Posts: 6,239 Member
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    There are certain genetic predispositions that MIGHT make men slightly more suited to ground combat than women, namely higher aggression levels from testosterone and higher average and potential strength levels.

    A) Those are generalizations though, and just like there are plenty of guys out there who are complete pansies and would be ill suited to combat, there are plenty of chicks out there who would make solid G.I.s, I'm sure.
    B) Modern combat is very different now than it was. You don't really see guys charging across the field of battle wearing a full kit to go and bayonet people, so some of the differences that might have mattered in say WWII aren't as big a deal anymore.

    I'm fully supportive of allowing women to any branch of service they may qualify for and be inclined to volunteer for, but I don't think there should be different standards for guys and chicks (besides the basic stuff like separate sleeping quarters and heads if possible). If a lady wants to G.I. Jane the seals more power to her, but she better meet the minimum physical requirements laid out for men, not some BS 1/2 the number of situps, knee pushups, and 2 minutes more time on the run or whatever.

    I also think the worries of wartime atrocities are meh. You volunteer for active duty right now (and if we're ever in a position to need to execute the draft I think women should sack up and defend their country too, regardless of the risk) so you know the risks of what you get into.
  • Midnight_Sunshine
    Midnight_Sunshine Posts: 369 Member
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    The Isreal army already tried this and it failed miserably. Men were not emotionally equipped when they saw women blown up or mortally wounded in combat and it made them less effective as soldiers. I believe woman can handle combat, but the ingrained nature of a man being a protector for woman could be a detriment to the mission.

    Women have been a part of Israel's military since it was founded in 1948. They make up 33% of soldiers and 51% of officers.

    Given the fact that there still IS an Israel, I would hardly say it failed miserably....

    Not only Israel.

    "There were 800,000 women who served in the Soviet Armed Forces during the war. Nearly 200,000 were decorated and 89 eventually received the Soviet Union’s highest award, the Hero of the Soviet Union. Some served as pilots, snipers, machine gunners, tank crew members and partisans, as well as in auxiliary roles"

    Also OP...get bent.
  • k8blujay2
    k8blujay2 Posts: 4,941 Member
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    basically a big sticking point had been "at certain times of the month women can be picked up by tracking animals".

    Not if she is taking birth control that can suppress this....
  • jayche
    jayche Posts: 1,128 Member
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    Does this mean women will be required to register for the draft now?

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