Women on the front lines??
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A soldier is a soldier. Man, women, white, black, gay, straight... they are all adequately trained and prepared for combat.
This is very much untrue. The military has various specialties, and if your specialty isnt combat, you get a rudimentary combat training and that is it, so you are not properly trained and on one is ever prepared for combat. 7x combat vet here, still in and I dont mean to crush your statement but we are NOT all trained for combat.0 -
Aright here is the deal. I’m active duty. I’m all about equality IF you can do it. Some women can, and some women cant. I’m 5'9'' 144lbs. If you put 50-80 lbs. of battle rattle, gear, etc. There is no way in hell that I am going to be able to firemen’s carry a 6'0'' 200 lbs. male with 50-80lbs of gear to safety. Adrenaline or not. However, there are some females who can. If they think they can SAFELY and EFECTIVLY keep up with the men without causing more harm than good. Let them take a physical test that involves combat related obstacles, and it’s either a pass or fail/go or no-go. You can either complete EVERYTHING or NOTHING at a satisfactory level. If so, GO FOR IT! More power to you. If not...then don’t put others life in danger cause you feel you have something to prove or have a huge ego/chip on your shoulder. Besides, there are several jobs, mine included where women are pretty much able to be in equal combat possibilities.0
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So would you say the problem with female intergration in the military is more of a problem with male persception and prejudice than an issue with the physical capabilities of a woman?
Yes, but not just male perception... just perception in general. But this is important as it causes a trust issue, that frankly could get people killed, really.If they were able to train all armed services when the termination of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" then they can train the services to accept women in combat.
Are you kidding me with this? I'm sure you thought that was a clever parallel you drew but that just demonstrates how out of touch you are with the reality of things
lot's of friction has happened over the repeal of don't ask don't tell... you think you can train away prejudice? DO people actually think this went over smoothly and it's just done now??? wow...i support this 100%. as long as they pass the same tests the men do.
any claims of it disrupting morale are just dumb. they said the same thing about blacks and homosexuals. if someone is too prejudiced to accept it then too bad for them.
I'm sorry, but again... it's not an issue of "get over it";
It's easy to say they should suck it up and treat everyone fairly... let's get our heads out of the clouds and get real here. These are guys that run around naked, watch porn, talk about women in less than "high moral" tones, cram on top of each other. Are you telling me that introducing a woman into that ecosystem isn't going to affect morale?? really?
and yeah... it's just dandy being an openly gay soldier in a line unit isn't it... coz everyone's just cool with it now?? please...
don't get me started on the racism that still exists in the military either... because that's a different issue all togetherA soldier is a soldier. Man, women, white, black, gay, straight... they are all adequately trained and prepared for combat.
This statement is false. Let's get this straight. Not only do soldiers go through different specializations, the recurring training makes you proficient at your job. everyone re-qualifies on their primary weapon, not everyone learns how to clear a trench or a 6 story building, or to call for indirect fire, or to call for direct fire, or to set up an emergency landing zone fore a medivac. Truck drivers get good at driving trucks and maintain the basic rifleman skills they learned in basic... hardly qualifies as always prepared for contact with the enemy.
I wish I could properly articulate what I'm trying to say, and it's frustrating not being able to get my point across.
I think I'm just irritated by some people that have no idea what they're talking about, opining on an issue that really, like I said, they don't know anything about.
Mission first, that's all I'm saying.0 -
I'm sorry, but again... it's not an issue of "get over it";
It's easy to say they should suck it up and treat everyone fairly... let's get our heads out of the clouds and get real here. These are guys that run around naked, watch porn, talk about women in less than "high moral" tones, cram on top of each other. Are you telling me that introducing a woman into that ecosystem isn't going to affect morale?? really?
and yeah... it's just dandy being an openly gay soldier in a line unit isn't it... coz everyone's just cool with it now?? please...
don't get me started on the racism that still exists in the military either... because that's a different issue all together
since it seems you are against this...then yeah the issue is for you to get over it. im sorry that women and gays in the military upsets your or seems like it bothers you but fortunately you dont get to make the decisions.
deal with it.0 -
Haven't read the whole post, but I think that if a woman is brave enough to sign up and can pass her pt...I woudn't hesitate for a second to fight beside her.
Edit: I admit though, having never been in the military, I have no idea what other kinds of issues this might raise. So I could be oversimplifying it.0 -
since it seems you are against this...then yeah the issue is for you to get over it. im sorry that women and gays in the military upsets your or seems like it bothers you but fortunately you dont get to make the decisions.
deal with it.
really? that's what you got from my post? First of all, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But like I said, people are going to have to deal with the REALITY of the situation.
Some female soldier may be the fastest, strongest and smartest. Guess what, that first female soldier at an infantry unit is going to get 0 respect and 0 trust just for being female... I mean, that's just what's going to happen. Is that wrong? is that BS... YES... does that change the fact that it's the way things would be? NO.
I'm just saying... there's a right way and a wrong way to go about this; I might not know the right way to go about it... but I know the wrong way when I see it.0 -
I'm sorry, but again... it's not an issue of "get over it";
It's easy to say they should suck it up and treat everyone fairly... let's get our heads out of the clouds and get real here. These are guys that run around naked, watch porn, talk about women in less than "high moral" tones, cram on top of each other. Are you telling me that introducing a woman into that ecosystem isn't going to affect morale?? really?
and yeah... it's just dandy being an openly gay soldier in a line unit isn't it... coz everyone's just cool with it now?? please...
don't get me started on the racism that still exists in the military either... because that's a different issue all together
since it seems you are against this...then yeah the issue is for you to get over it. im sorry that women and gays in the military upsets your or seems like it bothers you but fortunately you dont get to make the decisions.
deal with it.
Secondly, this portion you quoted was in response to someone saying that the repeal of don't ask don't tell is just done and everybody is fine with it... not the case at all and it's something lot's of people still struggle with and a lot of units are still cleaning up problems that have come from it.
as I stated, there is no class you can take to train prejudice away.
that's all0 -
My daughter's Biology teacher (a man) told her today that males are the weaker sex. If a man can battle on the front lines why can't a woman. We can do anything they can do plus birth a child.0
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can we get past the whole I can do what you can do bit?
Ability isn't the issue with integration... it's about prejudice and culture that needs to be slowly changed.0 -
can we get past the whole I can do what you can do bit?
Ability isn't the issue with integration... it's about prejudice and culture that needs to be slowly changed.
While I wish it weren't true, everything you say is true. America is a wonderful place to live, but we have some major issues. Not only with obesity, debt, mass shootings, but also racism and sexism is still very much alive. And will remain alive, unless someone does something to stand up against it. But, it's not going to happen anytime soon, unfortunately.0 -
My daughter's Biology teacher (a man) told her today that males are the weaker sex. If a man can battle on the front lines why can't a woman. We can do anything they can do plus birth a child.
thats not true. how does he define weaker? its possible women have a higher pain threshold or greater immunity but that doesnt really matter a lot in this case.0 -
My daughter's Biology teacher (a man) told her today that males are the weaker sex. If a man can battle on the front lines why can't a woman. We can do anything they can do plus birth a child.
lol0 -
really? that's what you got from my post? First of all, I wouldn't have a problem with it. But like I said, people are going to have to deal with the REALITY of the situation.
Some female soldier may be the fastest, strongest and smartest. Guess what, that first female soldier at an infantry unit is going to get 0 respect and 0 trust just for being female... I mean, that's just what's going to happen. Is that wrong? is that BS... YES... does that change the fact that it's the way things would be? NO.
I'm just saying... there's a right way and a wrong way to go about this; I might not know the right way to go about it... but I know the wrong way when I see it.
of course there will be people that have a problem with it. just like there were people that had a problem with integration.
but you have to give people the opportunity to start changing people's minds. if we let women in combat now then in a few years or maybe a decade they will have earned that respect.0 -
can we get past the whole I can do what you can do bit?
Ability isn't the issue with integration... it's about prejudice and culture that needs to be slowly changed.
tell that to all the people who are being held back as things move slowly.0 -
Held back? from what? do you even know how advancement in the military works?
regardless, advancement shouldn't be made at the price of people's lives. and when your job is to stay alive while on patrol... that's what's at stake... so should it wait? yeah, damn straight it can wait.
If you're going to do it, do it right the first time. There's enough wait and see crap going on as it is.0 -
Held back? from what? do you even know how advancement in the military works?
regardless, advancement shouldn't be made at the price of people's lives. and when your job is to stay alive while on patrol... that's what's at stake... so should it wait? yeah, damn straight it can wait.
If you're going to do it, do it right the first time. There's enough wait and see crap going on as it is.
obviously the military disagrees with you. they seem to think women in combat is viable. sorry that letting women have this option doesnt work for you.
its amazing that in this day in age there are still people that want to limit someone based on sex, race, sexual orientation...0 -
Why are people so unwilling to admit that no matter what men and women are not the same. Equality =/= sameness.0
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obviously the military disagrees with you. they seem to think women in combat is viable. sorry that letting women have this option doesnt work for you.
its amazing that in this day in age there are still people that want to limit someone based on sex, race, sexual orientation...
First of all, the military wholeheartedly agrees with me; the implementation of this "integration" is to be gradual, for some occupations, assignment of females is restricted to only the Battalion level and not the line level.
Also, women are still not to be integrated into Infantry companies.
And second of all, as I've stated over and over again, I PERSONALLY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH IT. I can't believe I actually wrote something out in caps...
Maybe if I put it in caps you'll be forced to read it this time. Like I said before, personal preference does not change what would actually happen if this change isn't implemented gradually... so yeah, at least know your facts before you say something like you just did.0 -
so you support the military's decision? good!0
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so you support the military's decision? good!
Laces_0ut, do you even know what you're arguing at this point? or are you just trolling?0 -
I like cheese.0
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Also, women are still not to be integrated into Infantry companies.
I have not noticed, and maybe I have over looked this, but are you a military member?
And to respond to the quote in question, this may be true for the U.S military ( though I cannot state fact as I am Canadian ), it is NOT TRUE for the Canadian Military, for which I am an ex serving member. My husband is a current serving NCM in the RCAF. My cousin ( female ) just came off her 3rd tour in Afghanistan and is FRONT LINE combat.0 -
The argument that women should not be assigned to combat roles has been weak ever since the United States began "attaching" women to combat roles without the official title of being "in" combat. This led to women being put in the same combat situations as their male counterparts, only without the benefit of being considered for higher promotions. 80% of the highest ranking officers get their promotions out of direct relation to their time in combat roles, and that strongly favours men in the military and presents the proverbial glass ceiling for women.0
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so you support the military's decision? good!
Laces_0ut, do you even know what you're arguing at this point? or are you just trolling?
im starting to wonder what your point is.
i am arguing that women should be allowed to participate in combat if they pass the same tests that men do.
denying someone that opportunity based on sex, race or sexual orientation is an antiquated idea that needs to be eliminated ASAP.
what is your stance?0 -
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The argument that women should not be assigned to combat roles has been weak ever since the United States began "attaching" women to combat roles without the official title of being "in" combat. This led to women being put in the same combat situations as their male counterparts, only without the benefit of being considered for higher promotions. 80% of the highest ranking officers get their promotions out of direct relation to their time in combat roles, and that strongly favours men in the military and presents the proverbial glass ceiling for women.
What? no. it's about how many slots are open in the rank above you. It's a points based system based on the schools you take and your performance... there's no bonus points exclusive to men from combat... arguments could have been made for the CIB as it's an infantry exclusive award, but now that there's a CAB that argument is moot.0 -
Women have been on the front lines for years in other countries...Israel?0
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i think this is an opportunity for men to ask to be relieved of their combat "privileges." let the women take it from here for the next 100-200 years.0
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so you support the military's decision? good!
Laces_0ut, do you even know what you're arguing at this point? or are you just trolling?
im starting to wonder what your point is.
i am arguing that women should be allowed to participate in combat if they pass the same tests that men do.
denying someone that opportunity based on sex, race or sexual orientation is an antiquated idea that needs to be eliminated ASAP.
what is your stance?
That opportunity and ability is not the issue.
That there needs to be the recognition, that culturally this needs to be done in a manner that doesn't rock the boat too badly.
Acknowledge that prejudice exists, and it just won't go away if you give it enough time.
Just because a woman passes doesn't mean she should be thrown to the wolves, whether she volunteered or not, someone is still responsible for her well being. Volunteering doesn't mean you just get to go. Service in the military is a privilege, not a right, don't ever forget that.0 -
Women have been on the front lines for years in other countries...Israel?
Then in those countries where it's been the norm it won't be an issue, in the USA, it hasn't been the norm... ever. so yeah.. it's going to cause some people to blink.0
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