Heavy Lifting defined--MUST READ

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  • wellbert
    wellbert Posts: 3,924 Member
    This makes me sad because I live in the middle of nowhere without access to a gym or a barbell and plates. I'm limited to what I can do with powerblocks that adjust to 70 pounds each, a bench, and my own body weight. Hopefully, this will be enough to make some progress (and strength gains).

    I do bodyweight exercises pretty exclusively. And I don't call it "heavy lifting," thank you very much.

    Try to do a pistol squat holding a little pink dumbbell behind your back with both hands.

    That little pink DB will become very, very heavy.

    It is harder than doing a pistol with 0.5x BW on your shoulders, which is very bit as hard as a back squat with 2x BW.

    I can not do a pistol unassisted. Maybe on a half squat but I am not a fan of those. I like to go all the way down. So, I am still in the doorway, holding the frame when I do my pistols. :|

    I can do a pistol squat, but I can't do a body weight barbell squat. (I did once, haven't repeated it.) I wonder if pistols are less about strength, and more about stability/balance.
  • ratbasterd3
    ratbasterd3 Posts: 4
    Hi everyone - I"ve been a MFP member for only about 5 months but I am also a 2 year 5x5 Stronglifts member ; in that time I have come from 242 lbs to 175 lbs as of yesterday . Yes you can cut on 5x5 , you well lose a little muscle size because of the 500 calorie deficit but you can get stronger and harder than you have ever been .~ RB3
  • nokanjaijo
    nokanjaijo Posts: 466 Member
    I can do a pistol squat, but I can't do a body weight barbell squat. (I did once, haven't repeated it.) I wonder if pistols are less about strength, and more about stability/balance.

    I did trip over a pocket of air once. So...mabye.
  • wellbert
    wellbert Posts: 3,924 Member
    I can do a pistol squat, but I can't do a body weight barbell squat. (I did once, haven't repeated it.) I wonder if pistols are less about strength, and more about stability/balance.

    I did trip over a pocket of air once. So...mabye.

    GHOST HOLE!
  • 19kat55
    19kat55 Posts: 336 Member
    bump
  • jenilla1
    jenilla1 Posts: 11,118 Member
    ...You're right, it's up to interpretation. Just because you interpret "heavy lifting" as a specific structured type of compound workout doesn't mean it's correct...For the most part on MFP, when someone says people should be "heavy lifting" they are simply refering to high resistance/low reps vs. the mainstream idea of low resistance/high reps. They aren't talking about compound vs. isolation or splits.

    That's the way I see it. :drinker:
  • Ely82010
    Ely82010 Posts: 1,998 Member
    bump, I don't have to time to read everything right now.
  • BigSexy0_0
    BigSexy0_0 Posts: 57
    BUMP
  • jaxxie
    jaxxie Posts: 576 Member
    Really great info op.... thanks and I'll be reverting back here for more info as I progress through SL!
  • jenilla1
    jenilla1 Posts: 11,118 Member
    ...In a thread I was in the other day (about body image) a very pro- heavy lifting guy made the blanket statement that "marathoners look disgusting" before advising the upset OP to ditch all her weightless efforts for heavy lifting. Does everyone say things this obviously dumb? Of course not. Will lifting maybe make that OP feel better? Sure! It totally might. But does it make sense to BASH CARdIOVASCULAR EXERCISE and call very fit people "disgusting"?!?!? No.

    Heavy lifters, you advice is very useful, but it is not the end all be all to health. Just consider that please.

    Yeah, I'm one of those disgusting looking marathoners. I even had an MFPer tell me I was scrawny and unattractive (a mean, unsolicited comment by the way). I actually lift heavy 3 days a week (by MY definition heavy enough to do no more than 4-5 reps) and although I'm not the badass looking beast that some people may want me to be, I'm pretty fit. My lifting has actually improved my running and race pace. I highly recommend both cardio AND heavy lifting. I don't really care if I meet other people's fitness or aesthetic expectations. I'm working on my own goals. :flowerforyou:
  • DorisR184
    DorisR184 Posts: 471 Member


    I'm not familiar with Body Pump, but I've done CLX. Perhaps you're just using hyperbole but at no point does the main program use 10 lb. weights for 20 reps. The three strength phases use 6 to 12 reps. And, yes, the program includes exercisers with lighter weights and bands for people who are just beginning or don't have access to heavy equipment. But IIRC, the "advanced" exercisers are using adjustable dumbbells upwards of 50 lbs. with constant encouragement to increase the weight. I think DVD programs can be a great resource for people who don't want to "lift heavy" but want to add a strength training facet to their workout regimen that is challenging without being all consuming.

    ^^ Exactly ^^
  • ToeTapN
    ToeTapN Posts: 64 Member
    bump
  • Gallowmere1984
    Gallowmere1984 Posts: 6,626 Member
    ...In a thread I was in the other day (about body image) a very pro- heavy lifting guy made the blanket statement that "marathoners look disgusting" before advising the upset OP to ditch all her weightless efforts for heavy lifting. Does everyone say things this obviously dumb? Of course not. Will lifting maybe make that OP feel better? Sure! It totally might. But does it make sense to BASH CARdIOVASCULAR EXERCISE and call very fit people "disgusting"?!?!? No.

    Heavy lifters, you advice is very useful, but it is not the end all be all to health. Just consider that please.

    Yeah, I'm one of those disgusting looking marathoners. I even had an MFPer tell me I was scrawny and unattractive (a mean, unsolicited comment by the way). I actually lift heavy 3 days a week (by MY definition heavy enough to do no more than 4-5 reps) and although I'm not the badass looking beast that some people may want me to be, I'm pretty fit. My lifting has actually improved my running and race pace. I highly recommend both cardio AND heavy lifting. I don't really care if I meet other people's fitness or aesthetic expectations. I'm working on my own goals. :flowerforyou:

    There's a difference between 'looking like a marathoner' and 'looking like a concentration camp citizen'. Many professional runners fall into the latter. That being said, I haven't exactly come many people here who fit that description, except for a couple of really disturbing eating disorder related posts.
  • towens00
    towens00 Posts: 1,033 Member
    Bump
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
    To the OP:

    I've seen you post before and you seem to have a lot of knowledge. If you don't mine me asking, in your opinion, If my goal is to look good in a swimsuit (and assuming a good diet) is something like Stronglifts more effective than a circuit-based program like ChaLean Extreme or Rushfit?

    I'm not trying to be snarky. I'm genuinely curious.

    It depends on what constitutes looking good in a swimsuit. The truth is, if your goal revolves primarily around the way you look, most DVD-based "body transformation" programs will get you there just as well provided you observe a healthy diet and watch calorie intake during the program. What makes these heavy lifting based programs generally more preferable is the functional strength gains you see from them, which are unequaled by the DVD-based programs, as well as the fact that you don't have to work out 5-6 days a week for an hour or more a day. Why do I stress an importance on functional gains? Well, I've always been a car guy. And one thing that bugged me a lot about the car scene after the movie The Fast & The Furious came out was the way people would modify their cars to LOOK like race cars but do minimal engine upgrades. What they ended up with was a car that talked the talk, but couldn't walk the walk, so to speak. People who go through these DVD based body transformation programs sort of experience the same thing. Upon completion, they LOOK every bit the part of an athlete. But when asked to perform like their body indicates they could, they come up short. Doing programs such as Stronglifts equate to upgrading the engine along with the outside, so that the body is every bit as capable as it looks it is. Make sense?

    Your analogy is way off. When asked to *perform* what? Lift something heavy? Run a marathon? Hold firefly pose? Since when is the definition of an athlete restricted to "lifting heavy"? YMMV, but IMO, cardio is essential to helping the body become "every bit as capable as it looks."

    What I was referring to is that many DVD programs have you exercising using methods that mainly focus on calorie burns and changes you see in the mirror. Because the sad truth is that is all that most of the buying public cares about. I agree that there are many facets of fitness. But 30DS and other programs don't really do much for _any_ of them. The only functional gains seen are the ones that come from having less weight on your frame. I saw more functional gains in balance, endurance, strength, and speed doing bodyweight suspension training + jump rope than following any DVD.
  • Helenacabral1
    Helenacabral1 Posts: 89
    BUMP
  • waldo56
    waldo56 Posts: 1,861 Member
    This makes me sad because I live in the middle of nowhere without access to a gym or a barbell and plates. I'm limited to what I can do with powerblocks that adjust to 70 pounds each, a bench, and my own body weight. Hopefully, this will be enough to make some progress (and strength gains).

    I do bodyweight exercises pretty exclusively. And I don't call it "heavy lifting," thank you very much.

    Try to do a pistol squat holding a little pink dumbbell behind your back with both hands.

    That little pink DB will become very, very heavy.

    It is harder than doing a pistol with 0.5x BW on your shoulders, which is very bit as hard as a back squat with 2x BW.

    I can not do a pistol unassisted. Maybe on a half squat but I am not a fan of those. I like to go all the way down. So, I am still in the doorway, holding the frame when I do my pistols. :|

    I can do a pistol squat, but I can't do a body weight barbell squat. (I did once, haven't repeated it.) I wonder if pistols are less about strength, and more about stability/balance.

    To some degree, yes, but difficulty is highly, highly form dependent. Little things make a huge difference. Bouncing reps and kipping your arms greatly lessens the difficulty. The more forward lean you have, the easier they are. DB held out in front of you makes them a little easier (moves your mass centroid toward your knee). Not holding your leg parallel to the floor throughout the rep makes them a lot easier. How much weight changes them greatly depends on where the weight is. Out in front, easier (to a point), in your hands a little harder, on your shoulders/front rack a lot harder (much like loading a back squat, it takes away almost all the form cheats as well): behind you (lower back), virtually impossible, because not only do you have to hold a very vertical position, but your mass centroid is very far from your knee (making the apparent load on your quads gigantic), holding your leg up is brutal on the abs, it is like holding a v-sit.
  • oaker
    oaker Posts: 132 Member
    "What that means is that the weight you're using should be so heavy that you can't manage a 6th without "cheating" and compromising form."



    If this is the definition of heavy lifting, then there is going to be problems. When you lift to the point where form is going to break down because you are pushing yourself to get the 4th or 5th rep, you will end up hurting yourself. I realize that the point is NOT to break form, but in practice this will happen as wts get very heavy and ones ego comes into play. You would need someone watching you during all lifts to make sure form is correct before moving up.
  • wants2lift
    wants2lift Posts: 40 Member
    Bump
  • NobodyInParticular
    NobodyInParticular Posts: 352 Member
    We arguing semantics here?
  • leketchup
    leketchup Posts: 27 Member
    DVD u say?
  • AntWrig
    AntWrig Posts: 2,273 Member
    The problem is that so many people interpret it differently. The whole reason this post was put up was to inform people that heavy lifting as a workout doesn't mean just working out with a weight that feels heavy to you. It's a very specific type of workout. It means working within specific rep ranges and entirely compounds.

    You're right, it's up to interpretation. Just because you interpret "heavy lifting" as a specific structured type of compound workout doesn't mean it's correct. I interpret "heavy lifting" as "lifting something that is heavy". The dictionary defines "heavy lifting" as slang for difficult activities at work. Wikipedia defines "heavy lifting" in regards to container transportation. So what makes your interpretation the correct one? Now, if you capitalize it as "Heavy Lifting" then I could see the arguement that it is a structured compound exercise routine.

    For the most part on MFP, when someone says people should be "heavy lifting" they are simply refering to high resistance/low reps vs. the mainstream idea of low resistance/high reps. They aren't talking about compound vs. isolation or splits.
    Agree 100%.

    That being said, I can't stand supersets or circuit training.

    My current split is an upper/lower based on RPE.

    Trust and believe, I am lifting VERY heavy.
  • tabinmaine
    tabinmaine Posts: 965 Member
    CP, I know you meant well with this post but it's so off base that it's almost unusable. Essentially, only a basic powerlifting program is defined as lifting heavy. Bodypart splits and 8 rep sets aren't heavy? Come on man. I won't pick on you too hard because I know the main point of this post is to tell women doing dvds like Chalean or taking Body Pump classes that 10 lb weights for 20 reps isn't heavy lifting and I completely agree. But that definition is so narrow that almost nothing is.

    But it's mfp, where you're doing SS/SL 5x5 or YOU'RE GONNA DIE.

    100% agree with this.
    Just because body parts are split up does not mean that you are not lifting heavy... it's ALL heavy lifting if you are failing on your 5-10th rep and you are sweating.... what is HEAVY for me might be warm up for you but thats NOT the point.....
  • ihad
    ihad Posts: 7,463 Member
    Bump to follow the discussion
  • Going4Lean
    Going4Lean Posts: 1,078 Member
    Bump
  • altinker
    altinker Posts: 173
    ...In a thread I was in the other day (about body image) a very pro- heavy lifting guy made the blanket statement that "marathoners look disgusting" before advising the upset OP to ditch all her weightless efforts for heavy lifting. Does everyone say things this obviously dumb? Of course not. Will lifting maybe make that OP feel better? Sure! It totally might. But does it make sense to BASH CARdIOVASCULAR EXERCISE and call very fit people "disgusting"?!?!? No.

    Heavy lifters, you advice is very useful, but it is not the end all be all to health. Just consider that please.

    Yeah, I'm one of those disgusting looking marathoners. I even had an MFPer tell me I was scrawny and unattractive (a mean, unsolicited comment by the way). I actually lift heavy 3 days a week (by MY definition heavy enough to do no more than 4-5 reps) and although I'm not the badass looking beast that some people may want me to be, I'm pretty fit. My lifting has actually improved my running and race pace. I highly recommend both cardio AND heavy lifting. I don't really care if I meet other people's fitness or aesthetic expectations. I'm working on my own goals. :flowerforyou:

    I think you look great! I think people can be rude when they comment about how other people look, especially if people don't do things their way!

    Thank you for the OP and the definition you provided. I have also enjoyed reading the other posts to see that other people interpret lifting heavy to mean different things.

    When I was in the best shape of my life, I lifted heavy weights -- not heavy lifting according to the OP's definition. That's all I did was free weights and watched my diet. Unfortunately, as I've gotten older, my body just won't allow me to do certain things. I'm having good luck doing barre and other lighter and fluffier programs than purely heavy free weights. The progression is slower, but that's what my body will allow for now. I am noticing that I have better definition than I ever did just doing heavy weights. My arms are starting to look pretty defined, and my legs are pretty strong just lifting my own weight. I will eventually see if my body will allow me to start lifting heavier weights -- especially since the gym could be incorporated for lunchtime activities.
  • chrisilouhoo
    chrisilouhoo Posts: 73 Member
    bump

    thanks for this, and for responding to each of the questions - the discussion was very informative
  • Altruista75
    Altruista75 Posts: 409 Member
    Want to be able to continue reading this for later.
  • JezzD1
    JezzD1 Posts: 431
    AMAZING post love the breakdown and very informative! Thank you for taking the time to post this, really helped =)
    question, if I am adding 5lbs every week won't it get too heavy so I won't be able to make 5reps, in other words if I can only do 3 reps with the added weight should I stay at that way until I can complete 5reps then add another five pounds?
  • DynamicDiva
    DynamicDiva Posts: 138 Member
    Very informative post----on both sides of it.

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