Concealed Carry: good or bad idea
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To all the gun haters... Take a CCW class even if you are not going to ever shoot a gun. It is a wonderful amount of information about current laws, statistics, and safety.
Again, this might only provide a person with a false sense of security. It really bothers me that people are boiling this all down to "just take an 8 hour class and you will be fine". I call BS on this, because I believe NOBODY (including police officers, soldiers, etc) is ever really ready to take a person's life without EXTENSIVE training on use AND psychological ramifications.
There has become such a flippant approach towards gun ownership that bugs me. I do not oppose guns, I do not oppose owning guns. I oppose people who go out and get them, take an 8 hour course and falsely believe they are "truly ready" to take aim and kill somebody in the middle of the night, in a darkened room, when stress, nerves and adrenaline are all brought into play. And NOT think "Oh my God, I just took a life."
Worse yet, what if that person who broke in was your child, trying to come home from a late night and lost his/her keys and was trying to open the door? And you end up shooting him/her by mistake? Think you'll recover from that? Hardly. (And it has happened in my city - a dad killed his 17 year old son who was entering the house after he jimmied the lock open)0 -
Here is the answer to your concerns.
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Right! They just assult kids with knives (like in China!) Oh so much better.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.
But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.
Absolutely I am dont want to see gun bans, but more regulation would be worth looking into I believe anyways.
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Well show us some states or countries where this regulation has worked.
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Most countries where citizens do not have access to guns school shootings are unheard of.
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That's correct. Instead, they take knives in to schools full of helpless children and cut them up. (If you want examples, look at China).
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I believe 15 children were injured, not killed...but thank you for proving my point.0 -
My husband and i have our permits and hope to never have a need to act. We are also teaching our son and daughter how to be responsible gun owners. Criminals will get weapons and use them regardless of any gun laws. I have the right to defend myself and my family so why would i choose not to? Thats my stand on the issue.
This!!!0 -
Guns have a lot of different purposes besides killing other humans. Have you considered that it's also a sport?
Let me help the original poster in the quote out.I guess if ya'll want to ban guns, we'll have to ban butcher knives, meat cleavers, etc. too. I mean, some of ya'lls argument is that irresponsible gun owners shoot themselves, each other, leave it out for children to find, etc. Ok, people who are irresponsible with other weapons such as knives and meat cleavers can do damage too.
So if a child chokes on a toy or gives a toy to another child who chokes on it, are we going to ban toys, too????
no one here has suggested banning guns.
How about we impose more regulations on the above mentioned items? Is that pedantic enough for you?
Those items are not designed to kill, they can kill but it is not even close to be the same thing as a gun. Their purpose is not to kill. The sole purpose of a gun is to kill and therefore should be regulated.0 -
My wife does know how to use it and we have been to the range several times.I have my CCP and I do carry.
I feel safer knowing that, if needed, I can defend myself or someone else being assaulted.
Crime can happen to anyone at any time so, as a result, I want to be prepared.
I wear a seatbelt but, I don't plan on crashing my car. I wear it just in case I DO crash my car.
My pistol is no different then a seatbelt really.
My wife does NOT have a CCP however, we have a handgun in the house and it is in a safe with a bio scanner. It can be opened in about a half a second.
Just curious, does you wife know how to use a gun?
I shot a gun for the first time last summer.
My father-in-law wants to give us his guns before he passes away.
Not sure how I feel about me or my daughter (9) being trained/taking a gun safety class etc.
She is not comfortable with it however; the "pros" outweigh the "cons" for now.
The bio safe means that either I or she can get into the safe without the key (which is an adventure to find in itself)
My first round is something called "snake shot". It is similar to shotgun birdshot except smaller. The possibility of killing an intruder from anything closer than three feet is pretty small with the snake shot but, it sure does hurt.
The remaining rounds are show stoppers.
The first round being a non-lethal round was decided for two reasons:
1: My wife is still not sure how she feels about taking a life. Knowing the first round is not a killer will stop the hesitation of pulling the trigger (hopefully the bad guy, between the pain and the noise will flee)
2: There is always the possibility of an accidental discharge and shooting someone you didn't mean to shoot. The first round dramatically increases the survival rate.
Now, I am not a stupid individual. I am a combat veteran and I have seen what happens in a shootout. Mistakes happen. Hesitation happens.
Hopefully having snake shot will minimize the first and eliminate the second.0 -
Brb never going to America, wouldn't be able to trust anyone.
Its not the ones legally carrying that you can't trust....its all of those that carry illegally, or who "legally" cannot carry, but do anyway.
Exactly. I feel safe knowing that my husband got his permit and carries.0 -
Texas has open carry. that's what I wish Arkansas (where I am) would get, that way ppl would know I am carrying and not F*** with me!! so u know where I stand on concealed...lol0
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You said YOU couldn't keep a gun in your house because of kids, I gave you a solution. I can't control what everyone else does. I can't make sure they lock up the tylenol, cleaning chemicals, Drano, etc so that kids can't get in it and die either, which happens. Should we require all of that nonsense for those items also?
I said no such thing, actually. There is more than one person in this forum who has a different opinion than yours. But you missed my point completely...I was asking why CAN'T there be a control of what other people do with their guns in their homes, i.e. requiring a biometric gun safe be purchased along with every gun? Are you seriously comparing a gun to Drano? Besides, if a person doesn't know enough to keep their Drano away from their kids, I'd hate to think how they'd store their guns...
Edited0 -
Population 311,591,917
US Violent Crimes 2011 1,203,564
Violent Crimes/100,000 386
Population 56,000,000
UK Violent Crimes 2011 762,515
Violent Crimes/ 100,000 1361
*Ban on guns since 1997
Percentage higher than US 352.59%
Violent crimes or purely gun crimes?0 -
Here is the answer to your concerns.
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot. Most trained individuals cannot easily hit a moving target, so even if someone had been armed during the mass shootings the outcome would not have been much different, not to mention once the police show up and realize you have multiple people with weapons drawn...well...you are just asking for trouble at that point.
Right! They just assult kids with knives (like in China!) Oh so much better.
Statistics have proven my children are much safer in my home without a gun than they are with one.
What kind of idiot stores an unloaded gun for protection? No one I know. I can have my gun in my hand and ready to shoot in 3 seconds from where I sleep.
The two of you have touched on the one of my main concerns in the gun debate. If you have children, or others in your home besides yourself, how can you have a gun ready to shoot in 3 seconds, but still think you are being "safe" or "responsible"? What if you're sleeping and your toddler wanders in your bedroom and grabs your gun and shoots his/herself before you even know what's happening? Or your depressed teen knows it's there, takes it during the night and goes to school the next day and shoots a bunch of classmates? Or you, while you're sleeping? I'm sorry, but I don't see how having a gun lying around loaded is safe for anyone. Either the gun is unloaded and locked up and "safe" but useless in a surprise situation, or it's loaded and accessible, "unsafe", but ready to use.
http://www.amazon.com/Gunvault-GV1000S-Mini-Vault-Standard/dp/B001C601KA/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1369323123&sr=8-15&keywords=biometric+gun+safe
Is this a requirement when a person purchases a gun? No? If a person does purchase one of these, are they required to use it? No again, right? So is requiring a biometric gun safe with every gun sale a solution? Not entirely, but it could help. As could requiring permitting and background checks for all residents of the home once they reach a certain age. Or requiring gun insurance or yearly licensing where you have to produce your gun every year for inspection and to prove that it is still in the registered owner's possession and hasn't been sold under the table to a "thug". Most "anti-gun" folks aren't about taking away your guns, you see. Most "anti-gun" folks would just like to see a little more regulation.
But, OP, to answer your question, I haven't really seen compelling evidence either way as to whether or not concealed carry increases or decreases crime. I agree with most of the Europeans/Canadians that have piped in...guns are not part of the "culture" for them, so they don't see a need. Americans have made it part of our culture so we don't see how it's not a need.
Absolutely I am dont want to see gun bans, but more regulation would be worth looking into I believe anyways.
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Well show us some states or countries where this regulation has worked.
[/quote]
Most countries where citizens do not have access to guns school shootings are unheard of.
[/quote]
That's correct. Instead, they take knives in to schools full of helpless children and cut them up. (If you want examples, look at China).
[/quote]
firearms and back ground checks are some of the highest regulated and taxed. Lets not forget it is a RIGHT!! A Constitution RIGHT to be able to own firearms.
examples of China? Well why don't we look at Mao who in 4 years killed over 45 million unarmed people? Or how they were invaded by Imperial Japan and were unable to defend themselves.0 -
ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot.
All it really takes is the cycling sound of a shot gun and I bet you 9 times out of 10 the intruder is hauling buns out of there. Better to have some change to fight on an even playing field then none at all, right?
Okay but where would you aim the gun to shoot it? People have shot their own family members mistakenly thinking they were being robbed. i am not saying people shouldn't own guns, or that we shouldn't defend our right to own them. Plenty of my family members do own them and do keep them in gun safes, and only use them for hunting...but when I hear about gun owners keeping their guns loaded in an unlocked dresser I really have to wonder how competent they are.
Where would I aim? I would aim at the intruder is where I would aim. A 12 gauge shot gun has a spread of I would estimate 18 inches at 30 feet (if an expert can confirm this I would be greatly appreciative).
Every situation is different. Some households are single individuals or are a married couple that have no children so in that case they could feel comfortable with the weapon in a night stand next to their bed. A household with children will likely need a greater degree of security keeping these weapons out of the hands of individuals (I say individuals because an uneducated person of any age could hurt themselves).
In short I personally would like to have the choice of having a weapon available to me in the event that an intruder does come in the house and I have a fighting chance to defend myself. If an armed intruder comes in the house and I have no weapon then I have a high chance of being severely injured or even killed. It is either kill or be killed. If I am ever a family man I will protect my family with all available options to me. I will be damned if someone comes into my residence, kills me for lack of having the tools to defend my family and my kids end up fatherless because of lack of options.0 -
A sport in which you kill things, I think is the point.
Guns have a lot of different purposes besides killing other humans. Have you considered that it's also a sport?
Let me help the original poster in the quote out.I guess if ya'll want to ban guns, we'll have to ban butcher knives, meat cleavers, etc. too. I mean, some of ya'lls argument is that irresponsible gun owners shoot themselves, each other, leave it out for children to find, etc. Ok, people who are irresponsible with other weapons such as knives and meat cleavers can do damage too.
So if a child chokes on a toy or gives a toy to another child who chokes on it, are we going to ban toys, too????
no one here has suggested banning guns.
How about we impose more regulations on the above mentioned items? Is that pedantic enough for you?
Those items are not designed to kill, they can kill but it is not even close to be the same thing as a gun. Their purpose is not to kill. The sole purpose of a gun is to kill and therefore should be regulated.
Let it be known that I am all for the US keeping their guns before you jump down my throat.0 -
My husband and I both have a concealed permit. I support it.0
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@BflSaberfan - No there wasn't a guard IN the school. My source is Wikipedia.
There was an armed guard assigned to the school but he was not in the school when it happened. He was in the parking lot at the time.. He did get a shot off from the parking lot at one of the perps but didn't have on his prescription glasses and didn't hit the shooter. So I stand by statement that there was no armed guard in the school. And apparently not a very prepared one outside it.
I'm off to other things. I know I won't convince you that concealed carry is a good thing.0 -
All I have to say is "When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."0
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ETA most home invasions the occupants never have the chance to get their gun out of the locked gun case, then loaded, and ready to be shot.
All it really takes is the cycling sound of a shot gun and I bet you 9 times out of 10 the intruder is hauling buns out of there. Better to have some change to fight on an even playing field then none at all, right?
THIS!! Hubby keeps his close by the bed at night, all any intruder needs to hear is that sound and they will be gone.0 -
Okay, since some posters have mentioned their kids and gun safety, here's another twist:
What about Adam Lanza?
His mother was lambasted by the public for taking her "mentally unstable" son to the shooting range.
She's an idiot. Mentally unstable people shouldn't own or operate guns or even cars IMO. And you could tell my looking at that freak that he was unstable.
Here is an example of why I think gun regulations would have helped....maybe. Had a physician expressed concern for Adams obvious mental instability perhaps they could have forced the mother to keep her guns at a gun range or storage facility instead of in her home. He could have taken a knife to the school and killed children anyways but I dont think it would have been as many.
He killed her, stole her car and stole her guns. I don't think it would have matter where she kept them, he would have gotten them if he wanted them...and if not her guns, he would have just got them from some where else. OR...made a homemade bomb, or used the car to mow down as many people as he could. James Holmes, the Aurora shooter, had his apartment wired to blow up if anyone entered. Let's go out on a limb and just say that someone in the theater was carrying conceal, and before Holmes got his first shot off, he was stopped. His apartment was still wired to blow up. He wanted to cause damage, he wanted people dead. He's crazy and no amount of legislation or laws or bans or restrictions would stop him.0 -
@BflSaberfan - No there wasn't a guard IN the school. My source is Wikipedia.
There was an armed guard assigned to the school but he was not in the school when it happened. He was in the parking lot at the time.. He did get a shot off from the parking lot at one of the perps but didn't have on his prescription glasses and didn't hit the shooter. So I stand by statement that there was no armed guard in the school. And apparently not a very prepared one outside it.
The creators of Wikipedia are the first to admit that not every entry is accurate and that it might not be the best source of material for research papers. Here are some points to consider:
Look for a slant. Some articles are fair and balanced, but others look more like the Leaning Tower of Pisa. If an article has only one source, beware.
Consider the source. Even if an article cites external sources, check out those sources to see whether they are being cited fairly and accurately — and do, in fact, reinforce the article's points.
Look who's talking. If you research the contributors themselves and find that they are experts in their fields, you can be more confident in the entry.
Start here, but keep going. Wikipedia should be a starting point for research but not your primary source for research material.0 -
@BflSaberfan - No there wasn't a guard IN the school. My source is Wikipedia.
There was an armed guard assigned to the school but he was not in the school when it happened. He was in the parking lot at the time.. He did get a shot off from the parking lot at one of the perps but didn't have on his prescription glasses and didn't hit the shooter. So I stand by statement that there was no armed guard in the school. And apparently not a very prepared one outside it.
Wikepedia is probably the least credible source to get your information.0 -
Population 311,591,917
US Violent Crimes 2011 1,203,564
Violent Crimes/100,000 386
Population 56,000,000
UK Violent Crimes 2011 762,515
Violent Crimes/ 100,000 1361
*Ban on guns since 1997
Percentage higher than US 352.59%
Violent crimes or purely gun crimes?
violent crimes. There is more violence due to the lack of ability to defend one's self.0
This discussion has been closed.
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