How long between reps before it's not a "set" anymore?
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calm down grandpa
SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
There is more in this world than Stronglifts.0 -
There is more in this world than Stronglifts.
SHUT YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH!!!!0 -
calm down grandpa
SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
There is more in this world than Stronglifts.
i mentioned stronglifts because OP says he did stronglifts. what is the relevance of your comment?0 -
LMAO! 9/10 would read again.BTW, if you didn't deadlift in your underoos maybe the magical workout anti fairy wouldn't come take your breath away. Have you tried pull-ups, they absorb sweat very well. I also like working out in the cotton onsies, you get 3-packs for like $5 at wallyworld and they dont fall down when doing presses or curls - the buttons in crotch make them easy to get off too.
Says the guy who suggested there is such a thing as useless data. (That's blasphemy, dude!)SHUT YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH!!!!
I understand it, but my goal is not raw strength at the expense of all else. I did SL for 30 workouts and had good newbie strength gains. I switched over to HST and in 6 weeks had comparable strength gains to what I would have gotten had I continued SL 5X5, plus some size.SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
You really need to do 15's to appreciate them, they are a different animal. Seriously, try it. Take your squat 5RM and multiply by 0.77, put that on a bar and squat it for 2 sets of 15. Then cry for your mommy. Then come back and post your experience.
If you want to understand why I am doing 15's for a 2 week cycle as part of a larger cycle that includes 10's, 5's, negs and deconditioning, then I suggest you read up on hypertrophy specific training at http://hypertrophy-specific.com/. If you want to criticize the program you should direct it at the person who designed it. At this point, by telling me I'm doing it wrong you are arguing with results.0 -
I have never tried HST but have read mostly positive things on it. On my "hypertrophy" leg I do 1 set of 20 rep breathing squats. These are a *****.0
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this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
LMAO! 9/10 would read again.BTW, if you didn't deadlift in your underoos maybe the magical workout anti fairy wouldn't come take your breath away. Have you tried pull-ups, they absorb sweat very well. I also like working out in the cotton onsies, you get 3-packs for like $5 at wallyworld and they dont fall down when doing presses or curls - the buttons in crotch make them easy to get off too.
Says the guy who suggested there is such a thing as useless data. (That's blasphemy, dude!)SHUT YOUR FILTHY LYING MOUTH!!!!
I understand it, but my goal is not raw strength at the expense of all else. I did SL for 30 workouts and had good newbie strength gains. I switched over to HST and in 6 weeks had comparable strength gains to what I would have gotten had I continued SL 5X5, plus some size.SL 5x5 is sets of 5 for a reason. if you did stronglifts you should understand the reason for doing smaller sets
if you are lifting light enough to be able to do a set of 12 of a weight, you are going to get less strength gains than if you were lifting a set of 5 of a heavier weight
that make sense to you?
You really need to do 15's to appreciate them, they are a different animal. Seriously, try it. Take your squat 5RM and multiply by 0.77, put that on a bar and squat it for 2 sets of 15. Then cry for your mommy. Then come back and post your experience.
If you want to understand why I am doing 15's for a 2 week cycle as part of a larger cycle that includes 10's, 5's, negs and deconditioning, then I suggest you read up on hypertrophy specific training at http://hypertrophy-specific.com/. If you want to criticize the program you should direct it at the person who designed it. At this point, by telling me I'm doing it wrong you are arguing with results.
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on0 -
My goal is to have fun. HST is accomplishing that just fine for me. Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on0 -
BTW to seriously answer your question, I didn't learn how to throw a ball, ride a bike, or how to dive by going slowly over and over. I could see squatting slowly a handful of times way back when I was starting out (which I did) but not after 5 months. As far as speed and that making it a cardio exercise, I'm talking about "explosive" movement. Much of the practical value of my squats (as far as doing something in the real world with the strength you've developed) is in exploding off the end of a diving board to get more height. At that point you've got a fraction of a second of push time, developing slow strength wouldn't do me any good.I think a set ends when you take all stress off the targeted muscle groups. As long as you keep the weight on your leg muscles (not your bones by locking out the knees) it's still a single set.
That being said, I'm not sure I understand why you are doing 15RM squats at a pace faster than you can breathe without hyperventilating. A slower pace on the squat would allow you to concentrate on perfect form and allow you keep 1 rep/1 breath rhythm. I would think anything faster than that would be a cardio execise.
Also I can't speak for anyone else but the finer points of my form depend on how much I'm squatting because the location of my center of gravity goes from near my hips at no weight and moves toward the bar with more and more weight. If you look at squat diagrams they show the bar directly above the center of the foot. That only works if your CG is the actual barbell. When I bend my legs my hips and all that weight goes behind my feet, so I have to counterbalance that by putting the bar forward to keep my CG (which is not the bar, until the bar has a lot more weight on it) over the center of my foot. The less weight is on the bar, the farther forward it has to go to counterbalance my butt.
The result is that a lot of my 1BW squat form doesn't transfer to 1.25BW squats for me. I suspect that's different at much higher weights. But I'm not up to that point yet and I'll have progressed slowly and properly evolved my form to that point by the time I get there. 0 -
what did i say that made you mad?
Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on
i would think as a SAH dad you'd have plenty of free time to do research about how best to maximize your gains.. in which case you'd know what i'm talking about
now please stop taking things personally. and try a widowmaker set before telling someone a set of 15 with 15rm is hard
edit - also after reading your last post - it seems like you do need advice on how to squat - i suggest Starting Strength - Rippetoe will help your squat form0 -
I have done quite a bit of research. I already read all of Starting Strength as well. I truly don't need advice on how to squat, I'm doing just fine. Perhaps you don't understand Newtonian physics and the concept of center of mass.
what did i say that made you mad?
Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on
i would think as a SAH dad you'd have plenty of free time to do research about how best to maximize your gains.. in which case you'd know what i'm talking about
now please stop taking things personally. and try a widowmaker set before telling someone a set of 15 with 15rm is hard
edit - also after reading your last post - it seems like you do need advice on how to squat - i suggest Starting Strength - Rippetoe will help your squat form
I'm not mad, I'm laughing. I see no reason to take advice from someone whose results aren't even comparable to my own. I'm squatting up to 1.5 BW, you're not even doing your own. Why would anyone in their right mind think you know more about squatting? It's a pretty straightforward question, if you want to imagine there's anger behind it then go for it.
I don't care about your widowmakers. It's not really about whether it's hard. You seem to think this is a contest to prove what a badass you are. Like I said if you want to argue with the HST program, you need to address that with the person who came up with it. Maybe you can explain to him where his knowledge of muscle physiology is lacking and why his recommendation of 15's is wrong.
As far as telling me which program I should or shouldn't use, first I didn't ask anyone and second my results speak for themselves. According to my measurements I dropped from 20-17% body fat and put on 2 lbs of LBM in the last 6 weeks, and I also progressed just as much on my 5RMs as I would have if I had stayed on SL and kept the same pace. (Unless somehow my strength gains would have accelerated, which doesn't happen.) I really don't understand why anyone would argue with results. It must take a special sort of mental gymnastics to think you're going to win that one.
It's also funny (and, like The Exorcist, keeps getting funnier and funnier every single time I see it) because this thread was intended to be a poll, and people think they need to give advice. It's like posting "what's your favorite pizza" and then all the responses are "you're eating too much pizza" "you're not eating enough pizza" "you shouldn't eat pizza after 7PM" or "you're eating it wrong you should use a fork." I don't remember if more than one or two people actually answered the OP as it was intended.
But kinda like my HRM it's still entertaining, just not in the way it was intended to be.
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I have done quite a bit of research. I already read all of Starting Strength as well. I truly don't need advice on how to squat, I'm doing just fine. Perhaps you don't understand Newtonian physics and the concept of center of mass.
what did i say that made you mad?
Also, I'm taller than you, weigh 55 pounds less, am 20 years older and I still squat more than you. So even if it were the point of this thread, how smart would I be to take your advice on how to squat?this sounds like aunt gretchen's version of the widowmaker squat set. if that's what you are going for, don't be scared and just do real widowmakers instead
regardless, those types of workouts are for hypertrophy and not as much strength gains - if you are trying to be a bodybuilder, sure go ahead - but i recommend getting way more strength (not that i'm saying you are weak, but you aren't bodybuilder strong) before you try to sculpt yourself into arnold
unless of course you just want to get a little bigger to show off to the mistress, in which case: by all means carry on
i would think as a SAH dad you'd have plenty of free time to do research about how best to maximize your gains.. in which case you'd know what i'm talking about
now please stop taking things personally. and try a widowmaker set before telling someone a set of 15 with 15rm is hard
edit - also after reading your last post - it seems like you do need advice on how to squat - i suggest Starting Strength - Rippetoe will help your squat form
I'm not mad, I'm laughing. I see no reason to take advice from someone whose results aren't even comparable to my own. I'm squatting up to 1.5 BW, you're not even doing your own. Why would anyone in their right mind think you know more about squatting? It's a pretty straightforward question, if you want to imagine there's anger behind it then go for it.
I don't care about your widowmakers. It's not really about whether it's hard. You seem to think this is a contest to prove what a badass you are. Like I said if you want to argue with the HST program, you need to address that with the person who came up with it. Maybe you can explain to him where his knowledge of muscle physiology is lacking and why his recommendation of 15's is wrong.
As far as telling me which program I should or shouldn't use, first I didn't ask anyone and second my results speak for themselves. According to my measurements I dropped from 20-17% body fat and put on 2 lbs of LBM in the last 6 weeks, and I also progressed just as much on my 5RMs as I would have if I had stayed on SL and kept the same pace. (Unless somehow my strength gains would have accelerated, which doesn't happen.) I really don't understand why anyone would argue with results. It must take a special sort of mental gymnastics to think you're going to win that one.
It's also funny (and, like The Exorcist, keeps getting funnier and funnier every single time I see it) because this thread was intended to be a poll, and people think they need to give advice. It's like posting "what's your favorite pizza" and then all the responses are "you're eating too much pizza" "you're not eating enough pizza" "you shouldn't eat pizza after 7PM" or "you're eating it wrong you should use a fork." I don't remember if more than one or two people actually answered the OP as it was intended.
But kinda like my HRM it's still entertaining, just not in the way it was intended to be.
tl;dr
read starting strength and watch some videos to learn how to do the proper squat so that your bar is on a straight vertical path (versus "moving the bar forward"). also the only explosive squats you will ever have will be on the can - try power cleans and snatch if you want to be explosive
also, i hope by now you understand the difference between a rep and a set. do you?0 -
^^ agreed. i don't for a second believe he is squatting anywhere near his claims. without question he is half squatting. the funny part was him going on about how max squats have no use for jumping. simply lol... it's like he doesn't understand strength is critical for power and that every template for jumping has pure strength training...0
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Right, because whatever dogma you've acquired about squatting must be true and anything that violates your beliefs must be a lie.^^ agreed. i don't for a second believe he is squatting anywhere near his claims. without question he is half squatting.
Wow, that train gif is a great representation of your reading comprehension. I didn't say max squats have no use for jumping. Also which part of "I'm not exclusively doing 15's" are you not getting? Maybe next you can claim that my entire workout consists of only 15 squats using helium balloons.the funny part was him going on about how max squats have no use for jumping. simply lol... it's like he doesn't understand strength is critical for power and that every template for jumping has pure strength training...0 -
Right, because whatever dogma you've acquired about squatting must be true and anything that violates your beliefs must be a lie.^^ agreed. i don't for a second believe he is squatting anywhere near his claims. without question he is half squatting.
Wow, that train gif is a great representation of your reading comprehension. I didn't say max squats have no use for jumping. Also which part of "I'm not exclusively doing 15's" are you not getting? Maybe next you can claim that my entire workout consists of only 15 squats using helium balloons.the funny part was him going on about how max squats have no use for jumping. simply lol... it's like he doesn't understand strength is critical for power and that every template for jumping has pure strength training...
do more power cleans0 -
The weight lifting program I use has me rest 1 minute between sets so if I rest more than that then it's a new set.0
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What? You rest 1 min between sets but it you rest more than that it's a new set? Doesn't make sense. No matter if you rest 1 or 5 min it's a new set either way.The weight lifting program I use has me rest 1 minute between sets so if I rest more than that then it's a new set.0 -
There's gotta be a typo in there somewhere.The weight lifting program I use has me rest 1 minute between sets so if I rest more than that then it's a new set. 0 -
Are you referring to rest-pause training?0
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I pause in between my last 2 reps all the time. I lift heavy so there's no way I could finish with the same rhythm as when I start reps 1-7 or 8 (i do 10 reps usually). In between sets...I usually rest for about a minute or 2. Depends on the muscle I'm working on. With legs I need more time than I do arms for example.Rest-Pause is a valid method of forced reps IMO. So if you can't get another full rep, pause for a few seconds while still holding the weight and go for one or two more.
Drop sets are another forced rep method, so that's gotta be a couple of seconds to switch weight.
Any more than about 10 seconds an you're just resting I reckon, but of course it depends what you're doing - 20 reps of squats and you may need a bit of a pause at 10 to steady yourself on your feet!0 -
Ok seems some confusion here on holding your breath. So to clarify.
1) You MUST hold your breath when doing ANY heavy compound movement. there is no exception to this. The technique even has a name. http://www.crossfithoboken.com/2011/09/20/the-valsalva-manuever-a-mind-blowingly-useful-technique/
2) You do NOT hold your breath for the entirety of the set. Or even the rep.
3) So lets use squats as an example. You unrack and have a pile of weight on your shoulders and you're standing there. during this part of the lift you can breath normally. When you're ready to do the rep, you take a deep breath, and tighten your core solid. You then drop into the pocket, while STILL holding your breath. you then start to lift yourself back up. while STILL holding your breath. You THEN once you're rising can start to exhale if you want.
4) Why do you do this? Because in the pocket is the most dangerous place to be to suddenly have your core give out. When someone exhales, their core WILL relax. Your back will then be unprotected and you're possibly effed. Keeping your breath in keeps your core strong and solid. As you rise, your core strength becomes less a concern and the more you need primary driver. Thats where exhaling to get that bit of explosive oomph can come into play. But even then, it's not uncommon to see top lifters hold their breath the entire way through and just 'exhale' while keeping breath in. (their cheeks puff way out and face turns red, but they don't actually breath out)
Very interesting. Thanks.0
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