How long between reps before it's not a "set" anymore?

From the images, your form at 210 lbs looks spot on. What I always look for is the position of the bar relative to your feet. If the bar is over the center of your feet, then it's in the right place, regardless of torso mechanics or knee position. For the lighter weights, you could let your knees go out in front of your feet farther to keep the bar over the center of your feet.

Thanks. You can see what I mean though, whether I'd be moving the bar or my knees, my form would still be changing between different weights.

From the images, your form at 210 lbs looks spot on. What I always look for is the position of the bar relative to your feet. If the bar is over the center of your feet, then it's in the right place, regardless of torso mechanics or knee position. For the lighter weights, you could let your knees go out in front of your feet farther to keep the bar over the center of your feet.

Thanks. You can see what I mean though, whether I'd be moving the bar or my knees, my form would still be changing between different weights.

it shouldn't be. do a bodyweight squat where center of gravity is always above the middle of your feet and the path the bar would be on is a direct vertical drop in the center of gravity

when you get that bodyweight squat form correct you can use that form forever with however much weight you put on the bar. the center of gravity will never change no matter how much weight you put on the bar as long as your form complies. it will always go down in a direct vertical path towards your feet

using different form than that can end up hurting you, and we sincerely don't want that

Wow, you really really don't get it. My center of mass is located far enough toward my butt that when I bend my knees to squat, my butt and my center of mass (by virtue of the way human knees bend and the fact that my body is not in noclip mode) move backwards. What keeps me from tipping over backwards if my center of mass is behind my centerline? Again, this is basic physics and leverage. Try sticking 200 lbs of weights to your butt and then squatting without tipping over backwards. (Yes that is an exaggeration, but it's the concept that is being illustrated.)

You're basically telling me to keep my butt over my feet while squatting. I can do that only by going up in the balls of my feet.

To keep my center of mass over the middle of my feet in a body weight squat while keeping my feet flat on the floor, I would need to either:
- bend each of my knees a different direction,
- grow a new joint in the middle of my femurs,
- use the Schwartz,
- twist my legs 90 degrees in opposite directions, or
- change the location of my center of mass.

The first four are not viable options without surgery and I lost the ring of the Schwartz (don't ask, it was embarrassing) but what I can do is stick a barbell on the top half of my torso to act as a counterbalance. It works wonderfully. At four and a half months in I had already squatted 260 for 4 reps, which is well into the "intermediate" level, while the rest of my big lifts are still at novice and even untrained levels. (Just furthers my point that my lower body is much bigger than typical proportions.)

I have no use for doing unweighted squats or even barbell squats with 70 or even 140 lbs, so there is absolutely no point in me trying to find a solution to doing squats in these situations.

Again I mentioned it because if other people have the same situation they might stop trying to progress because they think their form needs to be fixed first, when in fact progressing to heavier weights is the fix. Especially if every single person they ask just mindlessly regurgitates the same ridiculous stuff that you and others have been trying to tell me.

You're ignoring the rest of human variation such as bone length and joint ranges. You're taking an idealization of a generalization, and generalizing that, and assuming it trumps observed reality, as well as assuming that everyone agrees with you. That's the second most ridiculous thing you've said in this thread, the first being your suggestion that a stay-at-home parent should have lots of free time.

Maybe if you keep arguing it will keep this from having happened. Good luck.

This is exactly what happens on all internet forums regardless of topic. If there were a dictionary of internet stereotypes, this would be one of the first entries. Every hobby and pursuit has its own 'rules of thumb' which some people in their zeal try to apply with an absolutist mentality, and they proceed to patrol the forums looking for opportunities to spout their dogma and browbeat anyone who doesn't submit. It doesn't matter if it's fitness, or aquariums, or guns, or laser pointers, or gardening, or sailing, or anything else, it's always the same. Sorry to disappoint you but while repetition produces the illusion of truth, it doesn't make it true.

I didn't read all the way through so maybe this already came up, but have you ever thought about working on your cardio? It sounds like that is your issue if I'm reading this right. You have weak lungs compared to the strength in your legs, right? I'm sure I won't be taken seriously here, because I am a runner and I have just started my attempt at lifting "heavy", but it may be worth throwing some cardio in if it will help your lifting in the long run.

**by "heavy" I mean the "gym" where I work has no barbell so I am currently "lifting" 20 lb dumbells for my chest press and 15lb dumbells for my shoulder press. Laugh if you must, we all start somewhere

Yep, I swim, dive, bike, kayak, and quite a bit of other general activity. (I only started lifting in December.) I ran cross-country in my mid-teens, and also ran regularly during USAF basic training, and then in my late 20's, and it was always torturous, except those rare moments of runner's high. I do pretty well with the biking, which is basically low-impact running for me... great cardio without the shin splints and blisters. :happy:

Good luck with your lifting, and be careful: it can be as addictive as running!

Let's see:

- Apply absolutist mentality to general rule(s) of thumb with no regard for context. Check!
- Claim you are only looking out for someone's best interest. Check!
- Doomsaying. Check!
- Claim to be speaking on behalf of the world's foremost expert(s). Check!

Yep you hit all the requirements. And for bonus points:

- Advice is unsolicited.
- Advice is off-topic.
- Advice and doomsaying are still repeated over and over long after it is clearly unwelcome, "because we care."
- Attempted browbeating.
- Ad-hominem attacks.
- Threatening to stalk someone.

You're doing great! Are you classically trained?

When dogs are shown for conformation, they trot them around the ring. Anyone who has seen even a quick clip of a dog show has probably seen this. They aren't just trying to prance around to look cutesy, they are displaying the dog's form, which is a direct reflection of the quality of its muscles, joints, and bones... its build. Having shown a little I can see good vs bad by just seeing a dog trot. My wife can tell you which specific body parts are out of whack in which ways and the particular types of injuries or degenerative diseases that will result years later.

She can do this because a dog's form while trotting has been meticulously calculated by its motor neurons to be the most efficient use of the body it's connected to, and conformation judges use this to judge dogs because it's impossible to fake. You can't train a dog with bad conformation to run with champion form. The only way to get a dog to run like a champion is to choose its parents, and then cherry-pick from the litter because even then some of them will be less than good.

If you want to squat ridiculous amounts of weight, the most important part of that is choosing your parents. What do all elite squatters have in common? Great conformation. Having lots of strength without good conformation only allows one's muscles to destroy their joints. If your body is not built such that forces are properly distributed in proportion with the joints and bones they are being placed on, then you are never ever going to be an elite squatter no matter how much you train or how much you adjust your form. You can go on all day about the virtues of perfect form but it's not a valid comparison because the entire population of elite squatters has been cherry-picked for bodies that actually benefit from that form. If someone's body does not benefit from squatting with that form then it's already a given that they will never ever become an elite squatter.

If your build is less than ideal, then using idealized form without compensating for your quirks will fail much earlier because it does not properly distribute the loads on your various body parts. Trying blindly to squat with 'perfect' form with this train wreck of a skeleton is a recipe for disaster and I'm not stupid enough to do it.

Maybe I'm 'special' in that I have a tactile sense, or maybe it's just that mine is well developed because I spent most of my life beating the crap out of this body instead of sitting on a couch. But whatever the cause, I can feel the various loads and stresses on my ankles, knees, hips, and back and I can tell when they are getting higher or lower and dangerously high. Unless video technology has advanced to the point of sending real-time tactile data then there's no way that someone watching a video of me is going to know more than I can about the relative distribution of stress on my joints, especially in comparison to how much each of them can take. I can tell the difference when I change any aspect of my foot position, foot angle, knee width, hip angle, etc. That's how to adjust your positioning to optimize the distribution of forces, assuming you have that tactile sense.

But apparently many people can't even tell when their back is bent or straight, so maybe this is why so many people need someone else to tell them how to move or when their knees are being abused. Hooray for them. Maybe they will be elite squatters too. I won't. It's not my goal and I don't give a crap what someone does to squat 1000 pounds.

Why?

Here's the type of set I was talking about, for those confused about why you can't just 'breathe normally throughout the whole set.' http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSPE3wlv_Es
(This was 225 X 15 @ 182 lbs.)