"You're really pretty, but...

Wow...your post brought back so many memories. The most memorable one that still haunts me to this day was when I was in my early teens, and the guy I liked (a lot) told me he really really liked me, but it's a shame I was fat. He told me I was so pretty and had a great personality, but he can't date me unless I become thinner. He broke my heart and made me feel so bad about myself. People don't understand how much comments like that affect people. I still truly believe beauty lies within, and though it's important for us to be healthy, what's on the outside should not define who we are. You are beautiful just the way you are. Lose weight for your health #1, and anything that comes after that is just a bonus!

THIS ONE IS GONNA BE LONG, FOLKS.
I'm all *hot and bothered*.
Personally, I'll take a compliment where I can get it, and return one as quickly. Doesn't mean I don't have A HELLUVA lot to say on the subject.

I realize this is an unpopular opinion, but I think most of you here are twisting what was meant to be a compliment (and possibly motivation) into an insult because of your own insecurities. "You are pretty now, but once you lose a few pounds you will be smokin'!!" is a good thing in my eyes. Much better than "You are pretty now, so do not bother losing weight because it will not improve you in the least." is a slap in the face.

It is your unhappiness with yourself that is making you take it in a negative light, because you believe in your heart that it is true.

I call bullsh*t. Body image, especially for American females, is a tremendously complicated issue and the oversimplification going on here, while not unexpected, is sorta sh*tty. (I'm not attacking you, Whierd, because I understand where you're coming from. Just think you're super duper wrong.) Accepting a compliment gracefully is as much a learned social skill as is presenting yourself as a competent professional. Accepting a back-handed or tactless compliment gracefully takes additional skill points, regardless of your level of personal security.

You know what I believe? Comments like these, along with the desire to conform to societal beauty norms that's brought many of the offended to MFP (self-included), stem from pervasive and deep rooted misogynistic messages that are taken as matter of fact aspects of American life. We lovely ladies internalize these messages and learn to hate ourselves for not being the ideal. Hearing from even the best intention the verbalization of the hate that we face every day adds to an already considerable load. (Whether or not you recognize it or agree with it, studies prove that women are at higher risk for suicide. Women are at higher risk for cutting and other types of self-harm. Women are at higher risk for dangerous elective cosmetic surgeries. All of these acts stem from feelings of compromised self-image, and self-loathing. Google it. )

Consider how female to male transgender individuals report *marked* reduction in the body image shaming and fat shaming that occurred after transition to male gender norms. As in, before transition being told she ought to lose weight to be attractive (as is the focus of this thread) and having fat slurs directed towards her, while once transitioned and at the same weight, no longer receiving the unsolicited *advice*. Pretty much, women are supposed to be kind, quiet, and small while directing most of their resources towards being physically pleasing. It's about power, it's about social standing, it's about the multi-billion dollar beauty industry that survives on that self-loathing. It's odious and it's apparently inescapable, even in a community ostensibly here to support each other.

Exactly. It's a freaking compliment, and it is based on reality for the majority of people out there, especially the person making the compliment.

For most people the same person at 25 BMI looks prettier than the same person at 35 BMI. I sure prefer the way my husband looks at 20% BF over when he was at 25%. I'll love him if he gained 50 lb instead just the same. His worth has nothing to do with his fat %, but given the choice, I like to feel the abs!

Demanding that people act as if 'fat' is as pretty as 'normal' or 'skinny (not anorexic skinny.. reasonably skinny)' is like demanding that people stop considering asymmetrical features less attractive than symmetrical. We humans just generally consider symmetrical faces prettier. Congrats if yours is symmetrical, regrets if not!

Fact is that 2/3 of America is obese. Given that we're the majority, you'd *think* beauty norms would change. But take a look at my argument above. They haven't. For obvious reasons.

The symmetry points stands, because it is a natural fact (golden ration, y'all). However, using it to bracket the first sentence where fat is relegated to *abnormal*? Doesn't follow. Check out the stat above- 2/3 of America is obese. FAT is *normal*. Then consider the value judgements in the same sentence about just how skinny someone should be. Seriously? Seems the definition of an acceptable body is pretty restrictive. Ever wonder why? Ever consider that it's damaging to carry those definitions, to internalize them?

I'm not saying that obesity accompanied by poor health indicators (like elevated blood pressure, blood sugar, or cholesterol) is ideal, more or less beautiful than any other body type, or a reflection of self love or self-loathing.

What I am saying is that whether someone is obese or not, their body is acceptable. It's theirs. It's not open for judgement. It's not open for discussion. It will not be more worthy if there is less of it, or more of it, if it is symmetrical or asymmetrical.

We should support each other through our personal victories. We should lift each other up through our struggles. We should encourage each other to be as healthy as we can be, to live long and happy lives.

Body shaming doesn't belong here. (And a lot of the replies to this topic have been FULL of it.)

(Shoot son, that got away from me. RAAAGE AGAINST THE MAAAACHINNNE.)

I will back up my point with: You are all here.

.

I think the first issue is just having the grace to understand that most ppl are not trying to be *kitten*. It is sort of funny to see the people on here that say things like, "what they really mean is..." and "you know they are thinking..." NO! You do not know what they really mean or what they are thinking (sans a partner or close friend where you may have a shot of knowing).

The truth is, this is how you took it. You are assuming that you know what they mean, when really it is how you interpreted their comment. At the end of the day, we all want to partner with the most suitable companions (and not just sexually). It is true. Let's take weight out of it. For the average person do you want to be around an able-bodied person or wheelchair-bound? Disfigured or unblemished? Stutter or fluent-speaker? If we are being honest, we choose the most "normal" of those characteristics. I am not saying we don't give those other people chances, but it is not the first instinct. Also, if the person was, say, disfigured and an *kitten* - definitely not hanging out with them again!

Finally, first impressions are HUGE. When you meet someone in the first 10 minutes, the main thing you may be able to judge them are...wait for it...face/smile/eyes, body, and maybe humor. No one has time, yet, to know how amazing you are. Amazing how most ppl on here got compliments for the things that acquaintances or strangers had time to assess. You mean to tell me, the guy at the club didn't know you take underprivileged kids from the ghetto and teach them to soar?

My point...as the fat dude that has been a really great friend to many, many women (although many ladies still wanted a bite of the Chocolate Chunk) is that ppl generally are not trying to be mean. They are trying to motivate. They really think that you have beautiful eyes, and smiles, and are funny. They really think you are pretty...they also really want to congratulate you on the weight loss. We should assume we know what they mean, because just like "they don't know you" you don't know them. If no one in their family has battled weight issues, maybe they don't know the exact way to express their pride in you. Just take what you can from the compliment and use the rest to fuel.

That all being said...beautiful women on this post at all sizes!

honestly, my ex hubby has gone as far as to call me a "fat B!tch" iin the past....and my reply would be "i can change fat but unfortunately YOU cant change stupid" needless to say i haven't heard those sorts of things from him lately INFACT Last time i saw him to drop off the kids for the day he complimented me on how solid my calves were looking.......Hmm

honestly, my ex hubby has gone as far as to call me a "fat B!tch" iin the past....and my reply would be "i can change fat but unfortunately YOU cant change stupid" needless to say i haven't heard those sorts of things from him lately INFACT Last time i saw him to drop off the kids for the day he complimented me on how solid my calves were looking.......Hmm

Im glad hes your ex, that was awful of him to say to you!!!

What I am saying is that whether someone is obese or not, their body is acceptable. It's theirs. It's not open for judgement. It's not open for discussion. It will not be more worthy if there is less of it, or more of it, if it is symmetrical or asymmetrical.

Body shaming doesn't belong here. (And a lot of the replies to this topic have been FULL of it.)

Hey, don't get me wrong - I never said that anyone's body is not acceptable. In fact, I'm a big believer that step number 1 is to accept and like yourself and your own body, whichever size, symmetry level or other physical condition you got. Can a woman be very pretty while overweight? Absolutely! Will she likely be viewed as prettier if she got closer to normal BMI range? I bet! At least the modern ideal of beauty it's pointing us into the healthy direction most of the time!

It's not body shaming, it's just accepting the reality that people with near normal BMI are typically perceived as better looking. Just like people with symmetrical features. Or people with straight white teeth. (That's becoming less and less of a differentiator as the orthodontic technology moves forward). It does not diminish anyone's value as an individual, but it objectively affects perception and first impressions.

I agree that with 2/3 of the country being overweight, you'd think the standards would be different.

Curiously, if you look at Ming Dynasty beauty ideals, while most of the population was quite skinny from hard labor, the "famous beautiful women" of that era depicted in sculpture pack at least extra 50 lb by our modern standards. Similar story with renaissance portraits - I promise you an average female had a pretty different, much more muscular body shape with a lot less softness and glow. Remember the 'beautiful' foot binding in China? Not feasible for most women except most wealthy... And the modern supermodel who is not only skinny, but also nearly 6 ft tall - what % of the population fits that mold?...

Maybe it is just normal for cultural body ideals to be just that - something that is relatively rare and not easily attainable for the majority?

I don't think that weight=beauty, so these comments always make me mad.

Even though the cliches seldom work and maybe just show how insecure some are (including me) I like this saying, albeit a bit angry and negative:

You are fat!
I: "Well yeah, but I am working on it and can lose that weight, you will always be ugly on the inside, try losing that!"

I would have used that saying years back when I was at my heaviest and a lot more insecure. Really, coming out on the other side (after losing weight) puts things in perspective, even though I am proud of what I have done, there are so many other things more important in life :happy: