Eating Clean - No Such Thing

@OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?

I've seen a lot of posts on this forum by people who bash "clean eaters" and look like bodybuilders. That's all fine and dandy. But I couldn't give two craps about the fact that they reached their fitness goals. I care about what life will be like for them at 70 or 80.

Logically a lot of us will be dead due to things unrelated to actual health. Just throwing that out there.

Given my preferred means of transportation that will more than likely apply to me as well. But, I like to plan for the unlikely event that I will not have died in a motorcycle wreck before then.

I'm not sure I see the point in living my life in such a way that on the off change I make it to 80 I'm slightly more healty than the 80 year old lady in the bed next to me in the nursing home.

Also I'm not sure the way I eat means I'll be any less healthy to 80, but if you have some studies or something to contrary I'd love to see them.

Some people are concerned about more than fat loss. Eating crap food at a deficit will indeed cause weight loss but it doesn't necessarily equal physical health.

^ this Exactly! Skinny does not mean Healthy. If all you want is to be skinny, sure you can eat all the McDonalds you want and work out all day and that should do it. If you want to be healthy, maybe you should look into not pumping your body full of chemicals. It's pretty simple.

Can you quantify what you mean by healthy? In other words, how do you determine whether someone is healthy without looking at the food they eat?

@OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?

I'd love to see any credible sources for these claims as well.

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Can you quantify what you mean by healthy? In other words, how do you determine whether someone is healthy without looking at the food they eat?
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I'm interested to hear also. Just want to see where I stand on this sliding scale of health...

@OP: The benefits of a diet that minimizes processed foods may or may not apply specifically to weight loss or body recomposition, but they do for long term health. Some of us are concerned with what happens well after we reach our goal weight or bodyfat percentage or ideal level of muscle mass.

Can you elaborate or quantify what you mean by long term health, or "what happens after"?

Heart health, diabetes risks, dementia, etc...

Can you elaborate on any of these, and offer some scientific evidence to back the claim of increased risk as a result of an isocaloric, matched-macronutrient intake "clean" vs "unclean" diet?

Let me ask you this: By your logic, a person could live entirely on Donuts and use whey protein shake mix to supplement the lack of protein in donuts and see no adverse health effects after years upon years of doing so, provided they matched their ideal carb/fat/protein profile. Is that what you're saying?

That's not in any way an answer to my question. I'm in a good mood so I'll answer it anyway. The answer is no, because donuts and whey do not contain all the essential nutrients. The diet would be severely lacking in fiber, vitamins, and minerals. I suppose the method of donut preparation would determine whether the fatty acid profile would be sufficient to meet essential nutrient needs, as well.

I'm asking if you can quantify what you mean by health effects, and give some evidence to back up the claims you are making. Alternatively, you could provide a method and metric by which one can determine their personal health/risk of disease. Either would be acceptable to me.

I am not saying or advocating the idea of giving up foods like donuts or Doritos completely. Hell, I do it myself as evidenced by the Reese's in today's diary (and my Doritos addiction). But admitting that there are health benefits to eating those sorts of things in moderation vs. living entirely off of them is common sense. Not really something you should need a scientific study to prove. My guess is the reason there aren't many out there is because it's a matter of common sense.

Here's a great panel from a long comic The Oatmeal just put out about why he's a runner.

there are health benefits to eating those sorts of things in moderation vs. living entirely off of them i

Oh, so you were talking about a comparison that absolutely no one was making.

Maybe I'm the idiot for not reading in between the lines, but whenever this argument pops up about clean eating vs. fitting your macros, that is the exact extreme example of both that pop into my head. IIFYM = living off of donuts and whey because macros = c/p/f, and when taken literally it can assume ONLY those numbers matter and that there is no such thing as "quality" of food or other essential nutrients. By that same token, I take clean eating as meaning nothing but fresh fruits, veggies, and meats, which I also don't buy into.

Again, maybe I'm an idiot here, but I always see people such as yourself and others arguing that the idea of "making your macros fit" without making a point of stressing other essential nutrients, quality of food, and other such things, as meaning "you could live off of ANYTHING as long as you make c/p/f fit without ANY adverse effects." After all, If It Fits Your Macros. That's what it says, right?

Anyway, if you feel that sort of thing is common sense and shouldn't have to be said (and I can somewhat agree there), I apologize. But in any point, "processed foods" is a blanket term that could mean anything from canned vegetables to Doritos or Donuts. And I guess that's the whole problem with these arguments. We argue about terms that could be taken a number of ways without specifying exactly how we mean them.

I'm not telling people to go stuff their face with unhealthy food, no. All I'm saying is feel free to mix it up every once in a while. Eat foods that love. If you love eating these "clean" foods every single day, then go ahead. But most people I know who are dieting don't do it this way, because cravings eventually do kick in and mentally you'll start caving in, trust me. It's easy to say "Oh I've been eating clean for 7 days", that's cool, try doing it for the rest of your life.

I have been eating clean for about 16 months, and the cravings for the sugary stuff have gone away. I don't see them suddenly returning. I also love what I am eating, and plan on doing it this way forever. Not judging anyone who doesn't, but it has made an amazing difference in my life.

Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

So what about the people who are in excellent health but, according to you, have poor diets?

Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

So what about the people who are in excellent health but, according to you, have poor diets?

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than berate people for their individual opinions? If you wanna eat big macs all day and die of a heart attack at age 50, be my guest, it'll be one less jerk in the world.

Has anyone on here ever watched the documentary "A Beautiful Truth"? It's on Netflix. If you haven't seen it, please do.

Now you're plugging homeopathic medicine?

No. Just saying, there are plenty of studies that show diet is directly related to health. the better your diet, the better your health.

So what about the people who are in excellent health but, according to you, have poor diets?

Don't you have anything better to do with your life than berate people for their individual opinions? If you wanna eat big macs all day and die of a heart attack at age 50, be my guest, it'll be one less jerk in the world.

So you have no answer, and you blatantly insult me while saying so.