Humans are not designed to drink cows milk

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Replies

  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Anyway I give up trying. I need a brick wall to bang my head against....it would be easier.
  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    I can produce several articles and websites that prove eating dirt is natural and acceptable. Your point is? It's the internet, welcome!

    Which city? I'm sure one of us would gladly point you in the right direction :)

    Pardon me while I go log my low-calorie dirt.

    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    I am sorry but this does NOT happen in Australia. The industry is very tightly controlled (by my husband among others who works in the animal health industry) and if a dairy farm fails to meet welfare standards here the RSPCA is down on them like a ton of bricks. There are occasionally situations when a farm needs to destroy calves because of feed issues but this is rare and only happens when the cost of raising them for beef is to high. Slaughter is not a welfare issue, and you can check this with the RSPCA who are a more reliable source than those you quote.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    You have the the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now?

    Where to start on PETA's list of lies........

    http://www.nathanwinograd.com/?cat=10

    http://commonconstitutionalist.com/political-stuff/newsflash-peta-lies/

    http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/douglas-anthony-cooper/peta-animals-kill_b_1417663.html

    http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

    http://www.animalscam.com/

    milk and autism??

    http://abcnews.go.com/Health/MindMoodNews/story?id=5923337&page=1

    and the list goes on, and on, and on......PETA is one of the least credible organizations in the world (they're as bad as big tobacco, just a different agenda)
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Try the link I posted, try really searching for it. Not hard to find proof at all. For anyone who does give a damn.

    The link to the propaganda site with the factual errors about cows being kept constantly pregnant? That's only proof of the author's vivid imagination and/or lack of knowledge surrounding lactation.

    You're the one making the wild and factually erroneous assertions....the burden of proof is on you......

    Have you ever even been on a dairy farm?

    Want some more 'propaganda' sites then?

    http://www.peta.org/issues/animals-used-for-food/dairy-industry.aspx (PETS is highly regarded I assume?)


    http://www.all-creatures.org/articles/ar-pregnancy.html (Same as this I also assume)

    http://www.worldanimalfoundation.net/farm_animals.html (Scroll down to the MILK section & read)




    I can produce HUNDREDS of such sites with proof. Yet I'm still being called a liar? But that's ok....people know the truth. It's those who are ignorant or blind that don't want to know or don't believe it cause they can't see it happening in front of them.

    BTW that Animals Australia one is high up here in Australia. In fact I think they are one of the best & have brought to light a whole lot of animal welfare problems that are being changed.


    As for being on a dairy farm....I live in the City..... tell me where I can walk to one.

    I can produce several articles and websites that prove eating dirt is natural and acceptable. Your point is? It's the internet, welcome!

    Which city? I'm sure one of us would gladly point you in the right direction :)

    Pardon me while I go log my low-calorie dirt.

    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    I am sorry but this does NOT happen in Australia. The industry is very tightly controlled (by my husband among others who works in the animal health industry) and if a dairy farm fails to meet welfare standards here the RSPCA is down on them like a ton of bricks. There are occasionally situations when a farm needs to destroy calves because of feed issues but this is rare and only happens when the cost of raising them for beef is to high. Slaughter is not a welfare issue, and you can check this with the RSPCA who are a more reliable source than those you quote.


    HAHAHA RSPCA? Are you serious? The same people who ...nah. Forget it. It DOES happen here. RSPCA indeed.


    Wait you said RSPCA

    http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-happens-to-bobby-calves_87.html
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. Otherwise there goes their $$$.

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    PETA make a LOT of money. I don't trust them as a non biased source on animal welfare.

    So you would not trust the Salvation Army or Red cross either? They make a lot of money. So does World Vision.

    Why is it that when the dairy industry has money to make they will lie about their practises but if other organisations have money to make they are not liars?

    This is your own logic.

    I don't trust PETA for a lot of reasons. I bought up the money aspect because you did first.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    Melbourne Australia. I don't drive...so unless there is one damn close then I aint getting to it....... oh wait.... there isnt one. Not for at least 221km away.

    Like I said...it does not just happen in Australia this practice for cows milk. You have the proof from PETA ffs. You think they are going to lie to you about it now? Nope...I think the dairy industry would rather hide it just so people keep buying. <b>Otherwise there goes their $$$. </b>

    Sorry if to me other things are more important.

    PETA make a LOT of money. I don't trust them as a non biased source on animal welfare.

    So you would not trust the Salvation Army or Red cross either? They make a lot of money. So does World Vision.

    Why is it that when the dairy industry has money to make they will lie about their practises but if other organisations have money to make they are not liars?

    This is your own logic.

    I don't trust PETA for a lot of reasons. I bought up the money aspect because you did first.

    Sorry but I just quoted the RSPCA... THEY are a reliable source.... there is a branch of that in the USA as well I assume? Right there they talk about the boy (bobby) calves & them being slaughtered at 5 days of age.

    All the proof needed.
  • ironanimal
    ironanimal Posts: 5,922 Member
    Funny how the UK RSPCA never makes a big issue of OUR dairy industry either, and they do have basic police powers. But then, a drive down a motorway here and you will see cows in big fields everywhere.

    Edit; as far as I can see, there is no RSPCA in the US. Makes sense since y'all rejected the monarchy and it stands for Royal Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    What happens to bobby calves?

    For cows to produce milk, they have to give birth to a calf every year. Most calves are separated from the cows within twelve hours of birth to reduce the risk of disease, and most do not stay on the farm for long.

    The term ‘bobby calves’ means newborn calves that are less than two weeks old and not with their mothers. Essentially, they are surplus to dairy industry requirements as they are not required for the milking herd. This applies to almost all bull calves (males) and around three quarters of heifer calves (females). Some bull calves will be reared for veal production and about one quarter of the heifers will become replacements for adult milk-producing cows.

    Bobby calves are housed together and fed colostrum, milk or milk replacer, usually only once a day. They are then sold, mostly for slaughter, at five days old. Products from processed calves include young veal for human consumption, valuable hides for leather and byproducts for the pharmaceutical industry.

    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal. For their health and welfare, bobby calves should be fed twice a day and be housed in sheltered, clean and dry environments with room to lie down on suitable bedding.

    Transport requirements for bobby calves state that they must be at least five days old before they can be transported to the abattoir. Dairy farmers sign a National Vendor Declaration stating this is true and that each calf is fit for transport. Bobby calves may go straight to slaughter or to a calf sale and then to the abattoir. The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Cattle (http://www.publish.csiro.au/books/download.cfm?ID=4831) recommends that bobby calves should be transported for a maximum of 10 hours and then slaughtered on the day of arrival at the abattoir. The RSPCA believes these conditions are not always met.

    Because they are so young, bobby calves have the following specific animal welfare issues when they are being transported to slaughter:

    Like all young animals, they have underdeveloped ‘following’ behaviour, which means that they do not stay together as a group and move to where they are supposed to go. This makes moving and loading/unloading difficult and can lead to rough handling.
    They are too young to handle the stress, motion and length of transport.
    During transport and at calf sales, they are exposed to the elements, are not provided with bedding and often have little room to lie down.
    They are too young to be without milk for extended times.

    In addition, as it is difficult to accurately judge a calf’s age, calves may sometimes be transported when they are younger than five days old.

    For these reasons, the RSPCA believes bobby calves should be at least 10 days old and be fed at least four hours before being transported. Further, transport to the abattoir should be for less than 10 hours and in trucks that have protection from the elements, bedding and enough room for all calves to lie down.

    Calves should be handled humanely at all times so they do not become injured or distressed. This means no rough handling, prodding, use of dogs or electric prodders.


    http://kb.rspca.org.au/What-happens-to-bobby-calves_87.html
  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.

    ^this
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.

    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal.



    Wait what? Did you read that part where it states they dont get the same standards? Or did you miss the part where the female cows are kept pregnant right at the start? That start part proves my whole point. Nah does not happen...I was told by sooooooooooooo many in here that it does NOT happen at all. Yet there is the proof from the RSPCA themselves that it does indeed happen... yet contradicting story from someone who knows someone who works in the animal welfare industry?

    You can see that they are recommending 10 days old...yet they state most are killed at 5 days old. Just like I said in my original post.

    Nope does not happen in Australia at all though right? Can't have it both ways.

    I stated how the cows were kept pregnant (then I was called a liar) then I stated what happened to the girl calves (and called a liar) then what happens to the boy calves (and once again called a liar).... yet there it is written EXACTLY what happens. Potins proven ty very much I am outta here cause I know you lot will say it's still not true.


    Enjoy your friggen milk.
  • VBnotbitter
    VBnotbitter Posts: 820 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.

    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal.



    Wait what? Did you read that part where it states they dont get the same standards? Or did you miss the part where the female cows are kept pregnant right at the start? That start part proves my whole point. Nah does not happen...I was told by sooooooooooooo many in here that it does NOT happen at all. Yet there is the proof from the RSPCA themselves that it does indeed happen... yet contradicting story from someone who knows someone who works in the animal welfare industry?

    And did you miss the part where they state there is a Code of Practice to stop this? Did you also look at all the other stuff on their website describing other incidents of animal cruelty - where when they occur the RSPCA prosecute. Just because it can happen does not mean that it routinely does. Nowhere does it state that 800,000 calves are all kept with lower standards just that it can. When it does they breach the code and get prosecuted.
  • freddykid
    freddykid Posts: 265 Member
    so unnatural, do you think cows put out 1% and 2% milk? NO it's processed, probably with chemicals

    Wait. Didnt you say you drank almond milk? How did the milk get from the almond to the carton? If it wasnt processed then its just magic?

    tumblr_mamw0rbkSE1qbsw6yo1_400.gif

    They are dissolved in water, no chemicals needed
    Right, because water certainly isn't a chemical...

    uVs64Z9.gif
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.

    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal.



    Wait what? Did you read that part where it states they dont get the same standards? Or did you miss the part where the female cows are kept pregnant right at the start? That start part proves my whole point. Nah does not happen...I was told by sooooooooooooo many in here that it does NOT happen at all. Yet there is the proof from the RSPCA themselves that it does indeed happen... yet contradicting story from someone who knows someone who works in the animal welfare industry?

    And did you miss the part where they state there is a Code of Practice to stop this? Did you also look at all the other stuff on their website describing other incidents of animal cruelty - where when they occur the RSPCA prosecute. Just because it can happen does not mean that it routinely does. Nowhere does it state that 800,000 calves are all kept with lower standards just that it can. When it does they breach the code and get prosecuted.

    The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Cattle (http://www.publish.csiro.au/books/download.cfm?ID=4831) recommends that bobby calves should be transported for a maximum of 10 hours and then slaughtered on the day of arrival at the abattoir. The RSPCA believes these conditions are not always met.


    The code of practice is for the TRANSPORTATION ONLY. Not for how they are treated before that. It DOES also state that this is the fate for 800,000 calves. Read again.

    The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Cattle (http://www.publish.csiro.au/books/download.cfm?ID=4831) recommends that bobby calves should be transported for a maximum of 10 hours and then slaughtered on the day of arrival at the abattoir. The RSPCA believes these conditions are not always met.
  • Ann_Marie_2x_MORE
    Ann_Marie_2x_MORE Posts: 68 Member
    My uncle was a dairy farmer in Louisiana for all of his adult life. Every summer when we went we "helped" or just got in the way or something.

    Cows had to have BEEN pregnant to START producing milk, however like with all other mammals, once you're producing milk if you keep "stimulated" to produce more you continue producing milk FOREVER.

    I'm sure there are dairy farmers who are cruel, however once you start milking a cow, that being said - it's not cruel to simply milk a cow, you have to milk them every 4 hours otherwise the cow is in SERIOUS pain!!! Just like with humans when you're breast feeding, if you skip a feeding / pumping, then your breasts become sore. Cows feel the same way.

    That being said, I can't drink milk anymore. Or if I do - I get to pay for it in the potty.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    My uncle was a dairy farmer in Louisiana for all of his adult life. Every summer when we went we "helped" or just got in the way or something.

    Cows had to have BEEN pregnant to START producing milk, however like with all other mammals, once you're producing milk if you keep "stimulated" to produce more you continue producing milk FOREVER.

    That being said, I can't drink milk anymore. Or if I do - I get to pay for it in the potty.

    For cows to produce milk, they have to give birth to a calf every year. Most calves are separated from the cows within twelve hours of birth to reduce the risk of disease, and most do not stay on the farm for long.
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    And? That document clearly states that there is Code of Practice to follow to stop this? If a farmer fails to abide by that Code they will get prosecuted for causing unnecessary suffering.

    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal.



    Wait what? Did you read that part where it states they dont get the same standards? Or did you miss the part where the female cows are kept pregnant right at the start? That start part proves my whole point. Nah does not happen...I was told by sooooooooooooo many in here that it does NOT happen at all. Yet there is the proof from the RSPCA themselves that it does indeed happen... yet contradicting story from someone who knows someone who works in the animal welfare industry?

    And did you miss the part where they state there is a Code of Practice to stop this? Did you also look at all the other stuff on their website describing other incidents of animal cruelty - where when they occur the RSPCA prosecute. Just because it can happen does not mean that it routinely does. Nowhere does it state that 800,000 calves are all kept with lower standards just that it can. When it does they breach the code and get prosecuted.

    The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Cattle (http://www.publish.csiro.au/books/download.cfm?ID=4831) recommends that bobby calves should be transported for a maximum of 10 hours and then slaughtered on the day of arrival at the abattoir. The RSPCA believes these conditions are not always met.


    The code of practice is for the TRANSPORTATION ONLY. Not for how they are treated before that. It DOES also state that this is the fate for 800,000 calves. Read again.

    The Model Code of Practice for the Welfare of Animals: Cattle (http://www.publish.csiro.au/books/download.cfm?ID=4831) recommends that bobby calves should be transported for a maximum of 10 hours and then slaughtered on the day of arrival at the abattoir. The RSPCA believes these conditions are not always met.

    Not always met. Meaning they they are at least sometimes met. I would guess met most of the time, otherwise the wording would likely be 'not often being met'.

    So there are some bad dairy farmers not treating their cattle properly. I don't think anyone is denying that it happens SOME of the time. But does that mean we should never drink milk again even though most dairy farmers are treating their cattle according to RSPCA guidelines? So there is less profit in milk as a whole making it less affordable to keep bull calves under recommended conditions?

    Or does it mean we should, as consumers, find out more about where are milk is coming from and refuse to do business with those not following guidelines?

    Which method would make the bad treatment of cattle less profitable?
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    But I was just TOLD that it does not happen PERIOD.


    Either it does (and according to all sources it in fact does happen ALL the time or according to those who choose not to see the truth even when it's there it does not.

    Seems as though I was more than right all along, yet I'm still being called a liar? RSPCA lie now as well?

    Damn there is no hope in here. You are all set on destroying me along the way it seems.


    I'm out.
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
    But I was just TOLD that it does not happen PERIOD.


    Either it does (and according to all sources it in fact does happen ALL the time or according to those who choose not to see the truth even when it's there it does not.

    Seems as though I was more than right all along, yet I'm still being called a liar? RSPCA lie now as well?

    Damn there is no hope in here. You are all set on destroying me along the way it seems.


    I'm out.

    Define ALL the time. Isn't saying it happens ALL the time calling the people who don't see it happen liars too?

    it clearly ISN'T the norm, and boycotting all milk and milk products isn't a realistic way to address problem dairy farmers that breach the guidelines.
  • pinkraynedropjacki
    pinkraynedropjacki Posts: 3,027 Member
    But I was just TOLD that it does not happen PERIOD.


    Either it does (and according to all sources it in fact does happen ALL the time or according to those who choose not to see the truth even when it's there it does not.

    Seems as though I was more than right all along, yet I'm still being called a liar? RSPCA lie now as well?

    Damn there is no hope in here. You are all set on destroying me along the way it seems.


    I'm out.

    Define ALL the time. Isn't saying it happens ALL the time calling the people who don't see it happen liars too?

    it clearly ISN'T the norm, and boycotting all milk and milk products isn't a realistic way to address problem dairy farmers that breach the guidelines.


    No? we can then just tell them they been bad & not to do it again right? I assume then that people who don't like a service they get go back & not protest by not spending $$$ with them? Same applies with this. Vote with your $$ for change.
  • l_clc
    l_clc Posts: 126 Member
    That would be from the RSPCA right? Nah does not happen here at all. :yawn:

    I understand this is a very emotional topic for you (regarding cruelty to animals on dairy farms). I also get it that you receive most of your 'knowledge' from the internet considering you are a city folk. If it means so much to you I don't understand why you wouldn't make this much effort to go visit a few farms regardless of how far away they are.

    As for animal cruelty...quit knocking the entire industry. In every industry there are bad practices and I applaud the people working against them in order to raise animals in a safe and happy environment. I am a huge animal lover, always have been...as is my entire family for generations. And shocker- I was raised on a dairy farm. They were not kept in tiny stalls, they were never kept from seeing sunlight, or slaughtered at 5 days old. They were raised as members of our family. They had hundreds of green acreage during the summer months and free-roaming stalls with lots of good quality hay and a warm building during the harsh winter months. They received more attentive care than most family dogs and cats did. They willingly (on their own) walked to the barn when it was getting close to milking time, and we worked almost around the clock in order to care for these animals and make sure they were healthy AND happy. As a farmer's daughter, I visited NUMEROUS dairy farms growing up...I even did an internship with a large animal vet who visited farms. The good practicing dairy farms are the majority...the bad ones are few and far away (as in, I have never been to one in all my years dealing with and doing business with neighboring farms in the maritimes). This is an emotional topic for me as well. It is frustrating when people with little knowledge about the industry that you've revolved your entire world around fly around barking all these lies and exaggerating every 'tip' they hear to people that don't know any better.

    If you believe what you believe, fine. If you are going to try and stop the bad practices- great. But don't bash an entire industry because you believe everything you read. Go to a farm and get the knowledge for yourself. We aren't as cruel and disgusting as you are making us in your heads....in fact, we love, appreciate and respect animals I'd have to say- more than you and the rest of PETA.

    Moo on :)
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    Is this thread still going?????

    frustrated.jpg
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,436 Member
    you all need to just sit back and chill with some creamy swiss...

    laughing-cow-cheese-wedges-54836.jpg
  • lovingangel4uau
    lovingangel4uau Posts: 78 Member
    I like milk but hardly drink is as I found makes my asthma worst so have cut out dairy to a large extent and feel better.
  • BrianSharpe
    BrianSharpe Posts: 9,248 Member
    Each year, this is the fate of around 800 000 bobby calves in Australia. Because they will very soon go to slaughter, bobby calves often do not get the same standard of housing, cleanliness, care or attention as the valuable replacement heifers or the bull calves being reared for veal.

    Interesting selective perception....the document says that some of the male calves do not get the same standard as other male calves, nor does it state that the standard of care constitutes maltreatment. (Interesting use of language - the ones sent off to slaughter are "bobby" calves, the others bull calves)

    It does not unequivocally state that all male calves are being maltreated whereas in PETA's black and white view of the world they are.

    On the subject of annual calving I'm surprised that PETA doesn't suggest we boycott the Serengeti as wildebeest calve annually and we should really do something about those nasty lions and leopards who ensure that a relatively small number of calves survive to adulthood due to predation.

    Compared to life in the wild I think domesticated cattle have it pretty good, they're fed and housed and protected from predators (I'd take a bolt gun in the head over being torn apart by a pack of wolves) in exchange for milk , meat & leather. And, the vast majority of farmers tend to the needs of their cattle very closely as healthy cattle are productive cattle - not only is it humane, it's good business.
  • pluckabee
    pluckabee Posts: 346 Member
    But I was just TOLD that it does not happen PERIOD.


    Either it does (and according to all sources it in fact does happen ALL the time or according to those who choose not to see the truth even when it's there it does not.

    Seems as though I was more than right all along, yet I'm still being called a liar? RSPCA lie now as well?

    Damn there is no hope in here. You are all set on destroying me along the way it seems.


    I'm out.

    Define ALL the time. Isn't saying it happens ALL the time calling the people who don't see it happen liars too?

    it clearly ISN'T the norm, and boycotting all milk and milk products isn't a realistic way to address problem dairy farmers that breach the guidelines.


    No? we can then just tell them they been bad & not to do it again right? I assume then that people who don't like a service they get go back & not protest by not spending $$$ with them? Same applies with this. Vote with your $$ for change.

    You seem to be willfully ignoring my proposed solution - to demand animal products that have been produced with animal welfare in mind and to eschew products that don't treat their animals right.

    Because not ALL of the dairy farmers have bad practice boycotting ALL of the milk isn't the answer.

    Use your money to shift the demand to ethically produced animal products.

    People are mad at you because you are saying all milk production is horrible, and if you drink milk at all you are contributing to this practise. People in here that know where their milk comes from and know they come from happy cows are rightly pissed off at this assertion because they drink milk, but do not contribute to bad factory farming practices.

    Just the act of drinking or not drinking milk without regard to where it comes from will not do a bloody thing.
  • Derpes
    Derpes Posts: 2,033 Member
    yoda_milk_got-7643211.jpg
  • Jerrypeoples
    Jerrypeoples Posts: 1,541 Member
    i am going to have a nice glass of milk and a big fat steak. afterwards i am going to put on some makeup that was tested on monkeys while i go club a baby seal for some fine mittens.

    later.
  • rjmudlax13
    rjmudlax13 Posts: 900 Member
    Back in for 2nd roll!

    Anyway, I thought we were talking about humans not being "designed" to drink cow’s milk???

    Forgetting the part that humans weren't designed, but evolved, let’s think about it.

    Humans evol...uh were designed with intelligent brains. These intelligent brains made it possible for humans to do all sorts of things that we weren't physically "designed" for (i.e. fly, communicate over very large distances with copper, light and fiber). You could make the argument that some things aren't as healthy as others, but saying we weren't designed for something is silly. The very fact that we can do it negates the argument.

    However, it is true that some people cannot handle milk so you can say they weren't physically "designed" for it. Also, if you prefer to not drink cow's milk, that is perfectly fine and I (as well as most people) could care less.