Hating on abs, I get it, but who doesnt want a strong core?

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  • Escape_Artist
    Escape_Artist Posts: 1,155 Member
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    I'm one of those awful people who advocate not doing separate abs workouts. What for? Squats? Core engaged. Deadlifts? Core engaged. Pushups? Core engaged. And so on and on. You can check my pictures to see how awful my belly is.

    This.

    Also, nice abs there ;)
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,525 Member
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    might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.
    I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :tongue: :laugh:
    1044099_10152995858160607_656951590_a.jpg935810_10151446408836829_1930582846_a.jpg

    how do you like that A*

    I just got a brand new Dianese and I cant' find pants to fit for love god or money- my waist is to tiny so either I can GET them over the ****ing round lump 3 feet below my head- then they are too big- or they just won't get up over my thighs.

    And what do you ride??

    inquiring minds want to know... and yes- I'm thread jacking.

    LOL side note- I refuse to log my sportbike riding as exercise- although I know I"m burning- I just refuse to log it.... I wonder how much it would count *kitten* anyway?
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,811 Member
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    I do a whole load of core & abs work (not crunches anymore though - they were a start point...).

    Main reason I do them to to support my damaged lower back - having strong core muscles (including but not exlusively abs) has transformed my back health in the last few years.

    I can't do squats or deadlifts and even any decent weighted OHP due to injury - so isolation it is for me.
  • heatherloveslifting
    heatherloveslifting Posts: 1,428 Member
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    I am still holding out for that day when someone posts a thread on how to get a super-buff psoas or quadratus lumborum. Oh wait, you can't see those. Nevermind.

    That is a shame because I have a very strong psoas. :wink:
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.

    I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.

    http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk

    I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.
    I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :tongue: :laugh:
    1044099_10152995858160607_656951590_a.jpg935810_10151446408836829_1930582846_a.jpg

    Crashing one unfortunately does not. =P
    You're one to talk, nice new plastics :tongue:

    They are purdy though aren't they =)
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.
    I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :tongue: :laugh:
    1044099_10152995858160607_656951590_a.jpg935810_10151446408836829_1930582846_a.jpg

    idk, was talking about functional strength. rarely do i climb a rope or do a pull up outside of a workout but riding a bike is something i do in life so it acutally seems more like a functional thing then all the rest.

    i ride a SV650S if that question was asked of me.
  • contingencyplan
    contingencyplan Posts: 3,639 Member
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    might not help you that much when it comes to climbing a rope, doing pull ups, riding a sport bike etc.
    I love how riding sport bike gets clumped in with climbing rope and pull ups! :tongue: :laugh:
    1044099_10152995858160607_656951590_a.jpg935810_10151446408836829_1930582846_a.jpg

    idk, was talking about functional strength. rarely do i climb a rope or do a pull up outside of a workout but riding a bike is something i do in life so it acutally seems more like a functional thing then all the rest.

    i ride a SV650S if that question was asked of me.

    My first bike was an SV650. Great bike but needs some suspension work if you really wanna be able to push it. I ended up upgrading to a ZX6R because I didn't want to sink the money into doing the suspension work and would rather have a bike that came with it out of the box. JoRocka I know also rides an SV650S.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    a better conversation would be what direct ab work exercises are most effective. again, your goals matter most here but if the goal is a six pack there are a few that are definetly more useful then other. the crunch being one of them.

    I always thought the ab roller was a gimic. but i read an article where they attached electrodes to see how much it made the abdominal muslces fire. It was one of the most effective movements out there.

    I'd say haning knee raises and hanging leg raises are most effective. do your crunches immediately after those and you'll feel them a lot more.
  • VeggieKidMandy
    VeggieKidMandy Posts: 575 Member
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    I havent done a single core-specific exercise in 10 months. I haven't done ANY cardio in almost five months.

    These abs are from heavy lifting.

    qgGMaNI.jpg

    Wow~! I need to do some heavy lifting! that is impressive!
  • HeidiMightyRawr
    HeidiMightyRawr Posts: 3,343 Member
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    It's because when you do big compound lifts, you ARE working your core, and very effectively too! If you're doing these exercises, you shouldn't have a weak core at all.

    I have nothing against direct ab work, I just don't think it's necessary for the vast majority of people. There have been so many times now where I've woken up in the morning to ab soreness (from working out) but have not done isolated ab work in months! What had I done the day before? Pull ups (with a strong focus on the slow negative), or squats, or deadlifts (more core involved if you don't use a belt) ...

    By all means though, if you want your core even stronger, or even bigger ab muscles, go ahead! I see it's uses.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.

    I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.

    http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk

    I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.

    This is because a lot of people are beginners and do not have basic strength knowledge. The programs that are suggested also help educate people. Otherwise you get people doing these core building exercises and ONLY core isolated exercises 5-6 days a week straight.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    I just don't think it's necessary for the vast majority of people.

    define necessary. i mean, probably half of what people end up doing really isn't necessary to be healthy.

    if you want the most out of your core, its only going to help to work it more.

    if your happy with what you've got and you don't do any direct core work, great.

    if you want more then its not such a bad idea to through that stuff in there.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
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    Maybe weird or doing it wrong, but I could squat, deadlift and OHP with the strongest people in my gym but that never gave me enough core work. I couldn't even hold a basic plank.

    Now I do focused core and ab work, and not only is my core stronger, the numbers on my big lifts have increased.

    It stands to reason that someone is only as strong as their weakest link. Depending on one's program, I can imagine that one might reach a point where gains in some areas outpaced gains in others so that it became noticeable. I never did biceps or triceps work until I realized I could no longer lift my dumbbells into position to do incline or shoulder presses.

    Like a lot of threads on this topic, it started (me included) with push back against the CW "strong core = ab work".

    As the discussion continues, more nuance is added. In this case, it has contributed to an overall more informative and well-balanced discussion.
  • PikaKnight
    PikaKnight Posts: 34,971 Member
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    a better conversation would be what direct ab work exercises are most effective. again, your goals matter most here but if the goal is a six pack there are a few that are definetly more useful then other. the crunch being one of them.

    I always thought the ab roller was a gimic. but i read an article where they attached electrodes to see how much it made the abdominal muslces fire. It was one of the most effective movements out there.

    I'd say haning knee raises and hanging leg raises are most effective. do your crunches immediately after those and you'll feel them a lot more.

    The most effective core exercise I've experienced and have seen "said so" by many others would be planks. I can't do too many crunches without it twinging my lower back (which I've had issues with in the past).
  • notanartmajor
    notanartmajor Posts: 1 Member
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    Direct core work can absolutely be beneficial. Squats and deads are great for core strength, sure, but what if a weaker core is holding those lifts back? Ab rollers, good mornings, pallof presses, etc. can improve your core stability which can in turn improve your Big 3 numbers.
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    The most effective core exercise I've experienced and have seen "said so" by many others would be planks. I can't do too many crunches without it twinging my lower back (which I've had issues with in the past).

    thats interesting, i've never heard anyone saying crunches in particular hurt thier lower back.

    I think planks are an outstanding overall core exercise, pretty much hits every part of your core, which i would considier everything from just below your chest to your hip flexors, front and back.

    I was trying to name most effective six pack exercises, which i would not consider plank one of (tho this might have been a bit off topic anyway).

    As far as lower back pain, i never kicked my lower back issues till i started doing a lot of pull ups. Never thought that the pull up would help my lower back, but (and this is going to make the compound lifters happy) it works your core like you wouldn't believe.

    Now back pain is more like it was in highschool, i'll experience it for a day or even a few hours then its gone.

    i mean the core is like anything else, the more different ways you attack it, the better it will respond, the stronger and more healthy it will be.
  • frizbeemom
    frizbeemom Posts: 101 Member
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    I do a whole load of core & abs work (not crunches anymore though - they were a start point...).

    Main reason I do them to to support my damaged lower back - having strong core muscles (including but not exlusively abs) has transformed my back health in the last few years.

    I can't do squats or deadlifts and even any decent weighted OHP due to injury - so isolation it is for me.

    You said this just as well as I could have. :) I am transitioning from an injured, cardio-only type of gal into strength training, mostly with bodyweight and light weights. I haven't worked my way up to deadlifts, OHP, etc, yet, but I have been doing core & abs work and it has majorly impressed the hellouta me how much this has improved my back!!! Previously herniated discs in my lower back and I feel stronger and more fit than I ever have in my life, even pre-injury, as long as I don't do any stupid high-impact activities and pace myself into doing new workouts until I see how my back reacts. Before hitting core & abs work, I never thought I would get my back to this functional of a state again!

    Glad it helped you as well!
  • No_Finish_Line
    No_Finish_Line Posts: 3,661 Member
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    try punching out in front of you while in plank and alternating arms back and forth, thats a good way to make the plank even harder/more effective.
  • mustgetmuscles1
    mustgetmuscles1 Posts: 3,346 Member
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    There are a lot of people hitting big numbers on the big compounds that struggle to perform some basic body weight core/ab work.

    I love this video. Guy is built, has "abs" and puts up some huge numbers. Struggles with some pretty basic movements.

    http://youtu.be/CZmOP83Q9bk

    I dont see a lot of "hate" for isolation work as much as I see people suggesting the big compounds as the main focus of any training and isolation work as supplements or accessory work. Someone comes on and asks what ab work the should do to get a six pack and most people are going to tell them the answer is the big compounds and a strict diet.

    This is because a lot of people are beginners and do not have basic strength knowledge. The programs that are suggested also help educate people. Otherwise you get people doing these core building exercises and ONLY core isolated exercises 5-6 days a week straight.

    Agreed. It is often the advice I give them myself. I dont tell them not to do direct ab/core work but I think that is where the OP might get the wrong impression that there is some "hate" towards direct ab work.

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