Hyphenated-Americans
Replies
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ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
I don't understand your point. I didn't say it was a "solution" to racism, I said since racism is so pervasive, a person of visible minority may understandably make their heritage part of their ancestry, since they are gonna be judged by it every day anyway. Not that much of a stretch lol.
Also, still not getting why people are making a distinction between being Black and having African ancestors. Do people not realize that all Black people have African ancestors?0 -
I'd also like to point out that there are LOTS of Americans who weren't born here.0
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Honestly, if you have not done any geneaological research on your family, then you can't really claim ANY ethnicity.
What I would like to know is how do other countries define race? The United States is NOT the only county with a diverse population. How is a "black" British person defined by his/her government? Or is this a demographic that is even defined in other countries?
When I've gone to other countries, they have known I was "american" off the bat.
Heck even when I've gone to other states, they have known I was "californian" off the bat.
Even in Mexico, they know I'm, not really a Mexican. That's just a role I play here for the comfort of the people at the parties I go to who notice "one of these things is not like the others".0 -
I'm Jamaican born with a Colombian mother and a Jamaican father. I identify with both cultures but if asked I immediately answer that I am Jamaican. This is were I was born and have lived the majority of my life. Have never had reason to identify myself as a Jamaican-Colombian, until now that is:)0
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I am Ginger-American . . . we are a dying breed and I'd like my own official sub group, thank you.
Hiya, I'm Ginger-Scottish, we might be distant cousins?
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ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.
My point is that, from my experience there (which granted isn't extensive, but I've certainly witnessed it), there are people in the US who, if they see a black person, will refer to them as African-American. This is with no evidence at all that they have any recent roots in Africa. There are black people native to Caribbean nations, nothern South American nations, Pacific Island nations, anywhere vaguely equatorial. Why is the assumption made that they're of recent African descent?
It happens here, but since Asian (to mean Indian subcontinent, not far east) is the only geographic-specific group to get its own name, that's the only one it's noticeable with. I've heard people from northern Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc), Arab nations and Turkey referred to as 'Asian' because people see a skin tone and jump to an assumption.
:noway: How do you think Black people got to the Caribbean and the Americas? They aren't the natives who once live there, they are decedents of AFRICAN SLAVES brought there a long long time ago. Pacific Islanders are not Black either.0 -
Honestly, if you have not done any geneaological research on your family, then you can't really claim ANY ethnicity.
What I would like to know is how do other countries define race? The United States is NOT the only county with a diverse population. How is a "black" British person defined by his/her government? Or is this a demographic that is even defined in other countries?
When I've gone to other countries, they have known I was "american" off the bat.
Heck even when I've gone to other states, they have known I was "californian" off the bat.
Even in Mexico, they know I'm, not really a Mexican. That's just a role I play here for the comfort of the people at the parties I go to who notice "one of these things is not like the others".
One never feels more "American" than when living overseas.0 -
This sort of thing annoys me, too. My last name is Scottish. There is actually a clan with my name. But I wasn't born in Scotland. I've never been there. I never met any of my ancestors who were from there. I am not Scottish. I am a 6th generation American, which is a little too American to be calling myself anything else.0
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ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.
My point is that, from my experience there (which granted isn't extensive, but I've certainly witnessed it), there are people in the US who, if they see a black person, will refer to them as African-American. This is with no evidence at all that they have any recent roots in Africa. There are black people native to Caribbean nations, nothern South American nations, Pacific Island nations, anywhere vaguely equatorial. Why is the assumption made that they're of recent African descent?
It happens here, but since Asian (to mean Indian subcontinent, not far east) is the only geographic-specific group to get its own name, that's the only one it's noticeable with. I've heard people from northern Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc), Arab nations and Turkey referred to as 'Asian' because people see a skin tone and jump to an assumption.
:noway: How do you think Black people got to the Caribbean and the Americas? They aren't the natives who once live there, they are decedents of AFRICAN SLAVES brought there a long long time ago. Pacific Islanders are not Black either.
While I strongly agree with you to about 90%, then there are the Maori and Aboriginees who are "black" but not of African origin, unless we are speaking in terms of "we are all from Africa" which is quite true. And not all "African-Americans" are descended from slaves. I went to school with several guys who were Nigerian, as in from Nigeria but moved here.0 -
Ethnicity is really only important to census-takers and policy-makers.
To the world, you're just American.0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.
My point is that, from my experience there (which granted isn't extensive, but I've certainly witnessed it), there are people in the US who, if they see a black person, will refer to them as African-American. This is with no evidence at all that they have any recent roots in Africa. There are black people native to Caribbean nations, nothern South American nations, Pacific Island nations, anywhere vaguely equatorial. Why is the assumption made that they're of recent African descent?
It happens here, but since Asian (to mean Indian subcontinent, not far east) is the only geographic-specific group to get its own name, that's the only one it's noticeable with. I've heard people from northern Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc), Arab nations and Turkey referred to as 'Asian' because people see a skin tone and jump to an assumption.
:noway: How do you think Black people got to the Caribbean and the Americas? They aren't the natives who once live there, they are decedents of AFRICAN SLAVES brought there a long long time ago. Pacific Islanders are not Black either.
You said it yourself; a long long time ago. At what point does it stop being of relevance? There have been black people in the Caribbean for longer than the word America has existed.0 -
This sort of thing annoys me, too. My last name is Scottish. There is actually a clan with my name. But I wasn't born in Scotland. I've never been there. I never met any of my ancestors who were from there. I am not Scottish. I am a 6th generation American, which is a little too American to be calling myself anything else.
Inorite? So let's say you put on your Kilt and I'll put on my Poncho and let's belt out some Mariachi music on the bagpipes.
And we can both bring our tiny doggies.0 -
I'm black. I wish people would stop calling me African American.0
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:noway: How do you think Black people got to the Caribbean and the Americas? They aren't the natives who once live there, they are decedents of AFRICAN SLAVES brought there a long long time ago. Pacific Islanders are not Black either.
if you go back far enough we are all Africans.0 -
When I 'm forced to call myself anything, I just call myself "black" . I don't call myself African-American. I know nothing about my historical lineage any farther back than the fact that my ancestors came north at the tail end of The Great Migration. I really just want to be human.0
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First, my potted history:
I'm half Canadian, half American and a naturalised Brit. Born in Germany, grew up in America. My mother's maternal grandmother emigrated from England (Gloucestershire), to Canada way back when. My mother was born in Canada, as were both her parents.
I then emigrated to the UK back in the 80s. (Bit of a wasted trip on my GGMa Emily's part, you might argue, but I digress).
To my mum's dying day she called herself Scottish (as her maiden name was Fraser) AND Welsh (because, despite her grandmother being born in England, her birth was registered in Wales, as that was where the nearest registry office was).
My mother was neither Scottish nor Welsh, by any stretch of the imagination, and it infuriated me that she insisted on calling herself that. I've lived in England for more than half my life and, even though I am British, I will never be English in my head. My nephew, who is like 5th or 6th generation, insists on calling himself Irish. HE'S NOT IRISH, HE'S NEVER EVEN BEEN TO IRELAND; EITHER OF THEM!
It drives me mental when people refer to themselves as Irish-American or African-American or whatever. If you have the passport, or even if you were raised heavily in the culture, then call yourself that, but not just because it's where your ancestors were born.0 -
I really just want to be human.
:drinker:0 -
Civil discussions like these give me hope.0
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Honestly, if you have not done any geneaological research on your family, then you can't really claim ANY ethnicity.
What I would like to know is how do other countries define race? The United States is NOT the only county with a diverse population. How is a "black" British person defined by his/her government? Or is this a demographic that is even defined in other countries?
When I've gone to other countries, they have known I was "american" off the bat.
Heck even when I've gone to other states, they have known I was "californian" off the bat.
Even in Mexico, they know I'm, not really a Mexican. That's just a role I play here for the comfort of the people at the parties I go to who notice "one of these things is not like the others".
One never feels more "American" than when living overseas.
Amen to that.0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
And presumably labelling people of Caribbean descent who can go back many generations of ancestors who've never been anywhere near Africa as "African-Americans" because they're black and consequently might be African so we'll just make that assumption is a valid solution against racism?
Wait..what?...totally serious here, can you elaborate your point? I think I see what you're getting at but not sure if I've EVER heard another person make this distinction.
My point is that, from my experience there (which granted isn't extensive, but I've certainly witnessed it), there are people in the US who, if they see a black person, will refer to them as African-American. This is with no evidence at all that they have any recent roots in Africa. There are black people native to Caribbean nations, nothern South American nations, Pacific Island nations, anywhere vaguely equatorial. Why is the assumption made that they're of recent African descent?
It happens here, but since Asian (to mean Indian subcontinent, not far east) is the only geographic-specific group to get its own name, that's the only one it's noticeable with. I've heard people from northern Africa (Egypt, Algeria, Morocco etc), Arab nations and Turkey referred to as 'Asian' because people see a skin tone and jump to an assumption.
:noway: How do you think Black people got to the Caribbean and the Americas? They aren't the natives who once live there, they are decedents of AFRICAN SLAVES brought there a long long time ago. Pacific Islanders are not Black either.
You said it yourself; a long long time ago. At what point does it stop being of relevance? There have been black people in the Caribbean for longer than the word America has existed.
Africans were brought to the Americas and the Caribean since the begining of European Colonialism, it wasn't that long ago. Colonialism is still very relevant, in fact, it's the reason for this ENTIRE CONVERSATION. We wouldn't be talking about hyphenation at all if it wasn't for our recent colonial experience.
The first modern humans leaving Africa roughly 150,000 years ago, not relevant.0 -
I think it is generally useless to hyphenate - I never do it unless it is somewhat meaningful, ie, on St Patrick's Day or at an Irish Festival I may disclose I'm an "Irish-American". Otherwise, I'm not sure anyone really cares. (I'm an American)0
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Africans were brought to the Americas and the Caribean since the begining of European Colonialism, it wasn't that long ago. Colonialism is still very relevant, in fact, it's the reason for this ENTIRE CONVERSATION. We wouldn't be talking about hyphenation at all if it wasn't for our recent colonial experience.
The first modern humans leaving Africa roughly 150,000 years ago, not relevant.
how is that not relevant? thats where we are all from.0 -
Africans were brought to the Americas and the Caribean since the begining of European Colonialism, it wasn't that long ago. Colonialism is still very relevant, in fact, it's the reason for this ENTIRE CONVERSATION. We wouldn't be talking about hyphenation at all if it wasn't for our recent colonial experience.
The first modern humans leaving Africa roughly 150,000 years ago, not relevant.
how is that not relevant? thats where we are all from.
Just because the earliest resemblance of a human fossil was found in Africa, doesn't mean that is the only place where they existed at that time. It just means that conditions there were best for the preservation of 150,000 year old skull.0 -
Africans were brought to the Americas and the Caribean since the begining of European Colonialism, it wasn't that long ago. Colonialism is still very relevant, in fact, it's the reason for this ENTIRE CONVERSATION. We wouldn't be talking about hyphenation at all if it wasn't for our recent colonial experience.
The first modern humans leaving Africa roughly 150,000 years ago, not relevant.
how is that not relevant? thats where we are all from.
Just because the earliest resemblance of a human fossil was found in Africa, doesn't mean that is the only place where they existed at that time. It just means that conditions there were best for the preservation of 150,000 year old skull.
are you saying that we evolved somewhere else or that humanity evolved in several locations independent of each other?
its been a while since i read anything but at the time the theory was humanity and civilization evolved out of Africa.0 -
Africans were brought to the Americas and the Caribean since the begining of European Colonialism, it wasn't that long ago. Colonialism is still very relevant, in fact, it's the reason for this ENTIRE CONVERSATION. We wouldn't be talking about hyphenation at all if it wasn't for our recent colonial experience.
The first modern humans leaving Africa roughly 150,000 years ago, not relevant.
how is that not relevant? thats where we are all from.
Just because the earliest resemblance of a human fossil was found in Africa, doesn't mean that is the only place where they existed at that time. It just means that conditions there were best for the preservation of 150,000 year old skull.
are you saying that we evolved somewhere else or that humanity evolved in several locations independent of each other?
its been a while since i read anything but at the time the theory was humanity and civilization evolved out of Africa.
Bolded the important part for you.
Just like I stated earlier, if you haven't done any genealogical research, then any claims to ethnicity is going to be theoretical anyway, regardless if you are white, black, brown, purple, or green!0 -
Hey, Just wanted to share a quick story. Its a military story, from the Facebook page "Awesome S(tuff) my Drill Sergeant Said" Mike
FT Eustis, VA - AVN AIT 1993
I am not going to bore you with any of the HOOAH stories I have, because they are not going to measure up to the suck you went through. FT. Jackson BCT and FT. Eustis AIT don't exactly scream 'PAIN!!!!!!". Instead, I have chosen to share one of the life lessons that I picked up one afternoon during DS Time. It is a nugget of knowledge that I have reflected upon many times in the years since.
DS K was (and hopefully still is) a man of small stature. Most that were trained by him thought he had some 'short guy' issues, but I think he used his height as a tool to smoke the hell out of anyone that dared look down from the position of attention or parade rest. It was a riot to watch him smoke someone for making eye contact.
Anyhow, one afternoon we are in DS Time. He begins with 'How many African-Americans do I have in here?' Hands go up. He tells them to keep their hands up.
'How many Mexican- Americans or Latin-Americans do I have in here?' More hands go up. Same deal, he tells them to keep their hands up.
'How many European-Americans do I have in here?' A couple of white guys raise their hands.
He has those of us with our hands down fall out to the bleachers on the PT field, and has those with their hands up to fall in on the PT field.
Open ranks...You know the rest of the drill.
He smoked them for the remaining 50 minutes of DS Time while explaining to them in the nurturing way that only a DS can that we are all Americans regardless of our heritage, and that hyphenating is not only pointless, it is dangerous.
DH is ex-Marine Corp.
There are no atheists in foxholes...I think the context again is the distinction here.0 -
OP, I'm with you! I think it's time to put all that hyphenated crap behind us. :drinker:0
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Africans were brought to the Americas and the Caribean since the begining of European Colonialism, it wasn't that long ago. Colonialism is still very relevant, in fact, it's the reason for this ENTIRE CONVERSATION. We wouldn't be talking about hyphenation at all if it wasn't for our recent colonial experience.
The first modern humans leaving Africa roughly 150,000 years ago, not relevant.
how is that not relevant? thats where we are all from.
Just because the earliest resemblance of a human fossil was found in Africa, doesn't mean that is the only place where they existed at that time. It just means that conditions there were best for the preservation of 150,000 year old skull.
are you saying that we evolved somewhere else or that humanity evolved in several locations independent of each other?
its been a while since i read anything but at the time the theory was humanity and civilization evolved out of Africa.
Bolded the important part for you.
Just like I stated earlier, if you haven't done any genealogical research, then any claims to ethnicity is going to be theoretical anyway, regardless if you are white, black, brown, purple, or green!
unless something has changed(and clearly you have no info on the matter) im going to stick with what most scientists say and continue to state we all came out of Africa.0 -
I'm Canadian. We hardly ever hyphenate because nobody gives a .... spit. You can be Black/Asian/White/First Nations and it doesn't make you any less Canadian.
And since Canada is a relatively new country it is pretty much assumed that (almost) everyone came here from somewhere else along the way. So when my S-I-L refers to her family as Italian or when I attend a Chinese or Indian wedding I look at it as a celebration of cultural traditions rather than a repudiation of someone's Canadian citizenship.
(And the country of Canada is younger than the Emancipation Proclamation to the South so we don't have that history of slavery and oppression so being black up here isn't really a big deal either.)
Also, more and more, people are hardly ever "pure" anything. Lots of mixed race relationships and children creating an even richer and more diverse mix of Canadians. My kids don't even notice ethnicity as a differentiating factor. If I were to ask them about the ethnic background of one of their friends they would give me a "huh?" because to them the question is stupid. It just doesn't register as interesting in their minds.
Like I said, up here no one gives a......you know.
I wonder which part of Canada you're from....
Not what you mean about Canada not having slaves.... of course we did.
Thats the biggest difference between the US and Canada... the US is obsessed with race, and racism is just "out there" in the open, sometimes blatant and unashamed. In Canada we pretend to live in la-la-land like race doesn't matter and totally deny there is any racism, because we keep it behind closed doors. We're really fooling ourselves. Of course there is racism in Canada, of course we have a very racist past. Of course race and heritage matters here.
i'm thinking barrie. or red deer. heck, anywhere outside the 5 actual cities we have. canada is super racist, just polite about it.
BUT i'm so grateful for the little pockets of understanding we do have, which are a relief from everywhere else (ie in the world. the whole world except for 12 city blocks is racist).0 -
ok, well i don't think hyphenating is stupid.
if your white, your prob not getting discriminated against very much, and in the eyes of almost everyone, which part of europe your from doesn't matter.
but america is very racist, race matters. your race and heritage is a huge part of your identity. i think it's very understandable that many visible minorities would want to hyphenate.
^^ Very prejudiced statement to make.
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