5k Jogger to Ultra Runner in 14 weeks

Blimey, calm down, you all get a bit personal don't you!!

It's not easy but it's achievable

So are you saying that ALL of the reading material in running books by Olympic marathon runners, and articles on Runner's World etc are wrong when they tell you to only up your weekly mileage by 10%? Because I'm pretty sure that 9 miles to 15 miles is WAYYYY more than 10%......

My point and many others on here as well, is that your original post claims that this is the next step up from c25k. And this is not. The next step is a faster 5k, or a 10k. You have to build your mileage gradually. Plus take into account that I'm sure the majority of c25k'ers are overweight 200+

I think he said his wife and daughter are doing it too. Maybe they can save on co-pays if all 3 of them are in the hospital/Dr.'s office at the same time. The family that's injured together, stays together.

The average runner finishing C25k is running between 6 and 10 miles a week.

Just trying to define terms to see if we can all get on the same page...

I think part of the disconnect might be that most of us perceive the "C25k graduate" as an out-of-shape newbie who usually isn't running a 10 minute mile and is probably still running the three days a week mandated in the program (SmartCoach didn't have me add another day until I got over 10 miles a week.)

The OP assumes that the "C25k graduate" is somebody who is putting in 20+ miles a week, is very fit and has considerable experience with reacting to their body's physical cues.

Not that the proposed schedule makes sense for anybody, but it's less dangerous when proposed to people who have the experience to see the inherent problems.

I don't care which way the OP defines the "C25K Graduate". This plan is only appropriate for someone that has run a marathon before, has a couple years of good base mileage, and who has committed to a significant amount of cross training. This really is a FIRST type of program with the (relatively) low overall weekly mileage which will really only work well for the seasoned runner. It tops out at 50 miles, and only then because there is a marathon to run that week (the second one in the plan).

And if anybody need explanation on FIRST, here's a link: http://www2.furman.edu/sites/first/Pages/default.aspx

Yeah, I'm doing the "Busy Girl's Half Marathon Plan" and beginning to realize that it was a mistake. I think that, at my level, I should be putting in way more miles at this point. I don't really have the time to to that, so I should have looked at more challenging 10ks rather than going for a half. However, I'm not getting injured so that's a plus.

Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the next 12ish weeks.

Demonstrating what any new 5k runner can accomplish if they just commit to putting in the remarkably increased mileage in a relatively short period of time, right?

(Myself, I'm in the middle of week 7 of the 14 week couch-2-10k program, so my runs are about 2.7 miles now...because I've done the too-much-too-soon plan before and it ended in injury that sidelined me for ~4 months.)

Demonstrating what any new 5k runner can accomplish if they just commit to putting in the remarkably increased mileage in a relatively short period of time, right?

(Myself, I'm in the middle of week 7 of the 14 week couch-2-10k program, so my runs are about 2.7 miles now...because I've done the too-much-too-soon plan before and it ended in injury that sidelined me for ~4 months.)

Let's be sure we define "new runner" as it is being used in this conversation. A "new runner" is somebody who has been running for over a year and does 25 miles a week - I've been running for 9 months and am up to 17, so I haven't achieved the status of a "new runner" yet.

I think Jof was being sarcastic and pointing out what a "too much too soon" plan does to runners that don't have that awesome base.

My tuppence worth. First up, it's really not for beginners. If you've done a marathon or have done regular halves within the last year of so, you might be OK using this to get back to fitness.

Second, most running trainers agree that total weekly distance should increase by no more that 10% over the previous longest week (allowing for drop-back weeks). There are four serious red flag weeks in this plan. I'd increase total training time by at least 6 weeks to make this more gradual, even for serious regular runners:

Week Weekly total mileage % increase over previous longest week
1 19
2 17
3 27 42.1%
4 36 13.8%
5 41 13.9%
6 25
7 41
8 41.2
9 35
10 46 13.9%
11 50.2 9.1%
12 37
13 32
14 32.2

Next, 2,000 calories a day for a man? You're having a giraffe, right? Even when rowing, James Cracknell reckoned he got through 4,000 to 6,000 calories a day. A marathon burns an extra 3,000 on top of BMR.

Finally I'd like to share this article on James Cracknell's ultra marathon training:
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/jun/07/james-cracknell-fitness-running

Pertinent highlights are:

What the worst thing about running? I was at a marathon training event and someone asked the group: "How many people in the room have got a niggle?" Everybody put a hand up. People wouldn't have those injuries if they'd stopped earlier, if they'd had the confidence to listen to their body and spent a week doing other stuff. But people are so focused on what they're doing – they think they can't take a day off, they've got to complete the programme … and then a little pain somewhere becomes more and more serious.

And

So recovery is crucial? Absolutely. Another name for over-training syndrome is under-recovery syndrome. When I became a full-time athlete, the biggest change wasn't in the volume of training I did, it was in the the amount of time I had to recover. Before I went full-time I'd train, go to work all day, and then train again – so you're not recovering properly. If you're a full-time athlete you get the luxury of spending time chilling out and resting, which is something you don't get in normal life, especially with kids. That's underestimated. Getting rest at the end of a training day is the only way you can guarantee training the next day and the day after that … so you can build up to where you want to get to.

Finally

People spend a lot of money on trainers, on a gym membership, on a bike … but it's worth spending money getting a training programme. You can plan your own programme – but I would advise going to a professional and saying, this is my weekly routine, this is the time I have available, this is my goal – and they will work it out. That way you maximise everything. I think the key thing about making the most of the training you're doing – around work, family and the goal – is a programme which gets the balance right between what's steady stuff, what's progressional stuff, what's lactate threshold … You don't have to do long, slow runs all the time – it's not actually going to help you that much and there's only so much you can do of that.

Running is awesome. Running Marathons and beyond can be the most amazing experience of a runner's life... if you choose the right programme for your level.

Unless you're a lapsed athlete, I wouldn't recommend going beyond a half marathon in your first year. In fact, for most people, getting to 10K for the first year, keeping that distance ticking over "off-season" then doing the same for a half marathon the second year and only then seeing how your body feels about a marathon the following year would be a good approach.

Even James Cracknell broke a metatarsal doing the Marathon des Sables.

OK, this plan is assuming you are already a regular 3 mile plus jogger

Remember that distance is the key NOT speed or time. As always with all trail runs a combination of running and walking helps Try to run in the country on paths rather than on tarmac as it's easier on your feet and joints. It's amazing how quick your body does strengthen to do the distance.

Get a camel pack and fill it with electrolytes. On the longer runs take nuts, seeds, chocolate & jelly babies and eat continually (four jelly babies a mile) and stop half way to eat. Take Ibuprofen with you to get you through the little niggles.

Eat sensibly when you get home. Max 2k calories for a man for the day

Week 1
Mon 3 miles
Tues 3 miles
Weds cross
Thur 3 Miles
Fri Cross
Sat 4 miles
Sun 6 miles

Week 2
Mon cross
Tues 3 miles
Wed 3 miles
Thur 3 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 5miles
Sun 3 miles

Week 3
Mon 4miles
Tues cross
Wed 4 miles
Thur 4 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 6miles
Sun 9 miles

Week 4
Mon cross
Tues 5 miles
Wed 5 miles
Thur 5 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 6miles
Sun 15 miles

Week 5
Mon cross
Tues 5 miles
Wed 5 miles
Thur 5 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 8miles
Sun 18 miles


Week 6
Mon cross
Tues cross
Wed 5 miles
Thur 5 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 6miles
Sun 9 miles

Week 7
Mon cross
Tues 5 miles
Wed 5 miles
Thur 5 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 6miles
Sun 20 miles

Week 8
Mon cross
Tues 5 miles
Wed 5 miles
Thur 5 Miles
Fri cross
Sat cross
Sun 26.2 miles

Week 9
Mon cross
Tues cross
Wed 6 miles
Thur 6 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 8 miles
Sun 15 miles

Week 10
Mon cross
Tues 6miles
Wed 6 miles
Thur 6 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 8 miles
Sun 20 miles

Week 11
Mon cross
Tues 6miles
Wed 6 miles
Thur 6 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 6 miles
Sun 26.2 miles

Week 12
Mon cross
Tues cross
Wed 6 miles
Thur 6 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 10 miles
Sun 15 miles

Week 13
Mon cross
Tues cross
Wed 6 miles
Thur 6 Miles
Fri cross
Sat 10 miles
Sun 10 miles

Week 14
Mon cross
Tues 3 miles
Wed 3 miles
Thur cross
Fri cross
Sat cross
Sun Hardmoors 26.2 - come on!!!

Hello

Well I am training for a trail marathon stone Cat trail marathon Nov 2!
You SHOULD NOT run a marathon before your Marathon in week 8 or week 11. I am following a 16 week training program from the website (marathonrookies.com). This is my first trail marathon but I have run 3 road marathons and 4 halfs and a bunch of 16 milers and 10K,5milers, 5ks. My first and second marathon I did a month a part and that was my biggest mistake.




I am not saying it cant be done I am saying your plan needs to be changed a little. Also make sure you get fitted for trail shoes and that you are training on the trails or similar to trails the race is on.

You need to be careful about who you recommend this plan to. It works for seasoned runners. It works for Cracknell because he is already an elite athlete. Someone already running a base of 25-30 mpw might be able to take this on and be ok.

Most people in MFP who have done C25K are not fit enough or experienced enough to take on this plan. They also come to these forums and place a lot of trust in people like you giving them false hopes.

Lucky for these people, we have someone like Carson, who has TONS of credibility and experience (if you knew him, you would know this, too) warning beginners not to take on the plan you're promoting to them.

Exactly! (and where do they come up with 2,000 cal maximum? Especially on a long run day?......Lunacy)

You need to be careful about who you recommend this plan to. It works for seasoned runners. It works for Cracknell because he is already an elite athlete. Someone already running a base of 25-30 mpw might be able to take this on and be ok.

Most people in MFP who have done C25K are not fit enough or experienced enough to take on this plan. They also come to these forums and place a lot of trust in people like you giving them false hopes.

Lucky for these people, we have someone like Carson, who has TONS of credibility and experience (if you knew him, you would know this, too) warning beginners not to take on the plan you're promoting to them.

Exactly! (and where do they come up with 2,000 cal maximum? Especially on a long run day?......Lunacy)

I KNOW! I eat 2500 calories on long run days (and I'm a 125 lbs female) and I'm still losing weight. How on earth can a man live on less than that?

You need to be careful about who you recommend this plan to. It works for seasoned runners. It works for Cracknell because he is already an elite athlete. Someone already running a base of 25-30 mpw might be able to take this on and be ok.

Most people in MFP who have done C25K are not fit enough or experienced enough to take on this plan. They also come to these forums and place a lot of trust in people like you giving them false hopes.

Lucky for these people, we have someone like Carson, who has TONS of credibility and experience (if you knew him, you would know this, too) warning beginners not to take on the plan you're promoting to them.

Exactly! (and where do they come up with 2,000 cal maximum? Especially on a long run day?......Lunacy)

I KNOW! I eat 2500 calories on long run days (and I'm a 125 lbs female) and I'm still losing weight. How on earth can a man live on less than that?

Well, some of us little fellas can.

But everyone knows you're superhuman.

Demonstrating what any new 5k runner can accomplish if they just commit to putting in the remarkably increased mileage in a relatively short period of time, right?

(Myself, I'm in the middle of week 7 of the 14 week couch-2-10k program, so my runs are about 2.7 miles now...because I've done the too-much-too-soon plan before and it ended in injury that sidelined me for ~4 months.)

Let's be sure we define "new runner" as it is being used in this conversation. A "new runner" is somebody who has been running for over a year and does 25 miles a week - I've been running for 9 months and am up to 17, so I haven't achieved the status of a "new runner" yet.

I think Jof was being sarcastic and pointing out what a "too much too soon" plan does to runners that don't have that awesome base.

Not so much sarcastic as it was asking OP for his insight into for whom he thought this approach was best suited. That clarification is important. And the second paragraph of my post was entirely serious.

I would do this, but I'm not a fan of knee surgery.

Ah .... just found a very similar plan in issue 22 of the UK Magazine 'Outdoor Fitness' this one is jogger to Ultra Runner in 12 weeks and is even harder but very similar to weeks 3 to 14 of the plan I'm doing.

It's written by Ultra Running Coach Rory Coleman who has run 780 Marathons and 190 Ultra Marathons including completing the 'Marathon Des Sables' 10 times. You can check his credentials out at www.rorycoleman.co.uk.

I suppose he's got no credibility either ... that's an Olympic Athlete and Britains most successful Ultra Running coach against erm some geezer called 'CarsonRuns' and a lass called 'Vardaeml' ????

I do admire your commitment to the plan and your defense of it.

And yes, if coach Rory Coleman is advocating a similar program for *someone who is new to running*, then while he may have "credibility", I would still say the program is "idiotic".