5k Jogger to Ultra Runner in 14 weeks
Replies
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You need to be careful about who you recommend this plan to. It works for seasoned runners. It works for Cracknell because he is already an elite athlete. Someone already running a base of 25-30 mpw might be able to take this on and be ok.
Most people in MFP who have done C25K are not fit enough or experienced enough to take on this plan. They also come to these forums and place a lot of trust in people like you giving them false hopes.
Lucky for these people, we have someone like Carson, who has TONS of credibility and experience (if you knew him, you would know this, too) warning beginners not to take on the plan you're promoting to them.
Agreed. As someone who is running 50/miles a week and has so many marathons under my belt that I've lost count, could I do this plan? Sure. Would I? Hell no. I'm all about pushing yourself beyond what you think you are capable of, but no rest days, insane schedule, 2000 cals/day? I would kill and eat my coworkers at that level. It just seems like a recipe for disaster. It is more than possible that someone could get through it uninjured, but to flaunt it as a proper way of training is like a smoker walking around bragging that they don't have cancer, so smoking must not be unhealthy.0 -
I think what you mean is "it is attainable for someone who has a ton of time, no injury, is willing to do a super-hardcore training schedule but for some reason hasn't been doing it already, doesn't get any injuries, and is a lucky *kitten*."
I believe that "someone" has attained this, but for 99% of people this is a terrible idea. The Olympic athlete who designed this isn't really your average joe...0 -
Ah .... just found a very similar plan in issue 22 of the UK Magazine 'Outdoor Fitness' this one is jogger to Ultra Runner in 12 weeks and is even harder but very similar to weeks 3 to 14 of the plan I'm doing.
It's written by Ultra Running Coach Rory Coleman who has run 780 Marathons and 190 Ultra Marathons including completing the 'Marathon Des Sables' 10 times. You can check his credentials out at www.rorycoleman.co.uk.
I suppose he's got no credibility either ... that's an Olympic Athlete and Britains most successful Ultra Running coach against erm some geezer called 'CarsonRuns' and a lass called 'Vardaeml' ????
I do admire your commitment to the plan and your defense of it.
And yes, if coach Rory Coleman is advocating a similar program for *someone who is new to running*, then while he may have "credibility", I would still say the program is "idiotic".
I'm in the UK and I'm going to pop into smiths tomorrow to read this jogger to ultra runner article.
I'll report back :laugh:0 -
The cover actually says "anybody can run an ultra"
Still stupid.0 -
Hello!
I ain't attacked anyone .... might of been a bit tongue in cheeky sarcy but that's it.
Well you've all got your point of views, but I'll stick with the experts0 -
Hello!
I ain't attacked anyone .... might of been a bit tongue in cheeky sarcy but that's it.
Well you've all got your point of views, but I'll stick with the experts
You mean "I'll search high and low for one expert who said something similar to what I said, then stick with him 100% while ignoring every other expert I come across who disagrees."0 -
I wish you success.
I'm going to stick with the experts who say not to ramp up too far and too fast because you risk injury.
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Well you've all got your point of views, but I'll stick with the experts
Which is what I've done as well. Everything I've typed here has been gleaned from the writings of experts like Arthur Lydiard, Dr. Jack Daniles, Dr. Tim Noakes, Greg McMillan, Renato Canova, the Hanson brothers, Alberto Salazar...I could go on and on.
In principle, they all agree AND have produced world class runners. They are the experts.0 -
Hello!
I ain't attacked anyone .... might of been a bit tongue in cheeky sarcy but that's it.
Well you've all got your point of views, but I'll stick with the experts
You mean "I'll search high and low for one expert who said something similar to what I said, then stick with him 100% while ignoring every other expert I come across who disagrees."
In OP's defense, this approach is entirely consistent with many others on MFP.0 -
Hello!
I ain't attacked anyone .... might of been a bit tongue in cheeky sarcy but that's it.
Well you've all got your point of views, but I'll stick with the experts
You mean "I'll search high and low for one expert who said something similar to what I said, then stick with him 100% while ignoring every other expert I come across who disagrees."
In OP's defense, this approach is entirely consistent with many others on MFP.
Yeah, but running threads aren't suppose to degenerate to that level.0 -
Hello!
I ain't attacked anyone .... might of been a bit tongue in cheeky sarcy but that's it.
Well you've all got your point of views, but I'll stick with the experts
You mean "I'll search high and low for one expert who said something similar to what I said, then stick with him 100% while ignoring every other expert I come across who disagrees."
In OP's defense, this approach is entirely consistent with many others on MFP.
Yeah, but running threads aren't suppose to degenerate to that level.
*No* thread (or position) should degenerate to that level.
It just seems that it seldom happens (at least to this extent) with running threads.0 -
Week 2 complete!
We feel fantastic, all three of us are gagging to get out into the hills and hitting the proper miles but keeping it on the flat for now and always sticking to the plan.
I don't know what time we did todays 9.23 miles in and I don't care, I aren't Mo Farah and aren't going to win any races. For us, as always, it's about completing not competing!
It was so beautiful tonight running along Humberston Beach in Lincolnshire (google it) at sunset with my two favourite girls!
So proud of Beth who's doing the Mablethorpe 1/2 marathon in 2 weeks and my wife Deb who just loves it.
Yeah, course you are.
c25k to Ultra Runner in 14 weeks - you have been running for five minutes and think you can conquer the world and also think everybdy who has been running for years and years and is advising against this is wrong.
Says it all really.
That plan is an absolute recipe for disaster, why are you rushing to complete a trail marathon in 14 weeks, have you always rushed headlong through everything?
What's your racing time for a 10k, or have you not raced a 10k yet? What's your racetime for a 5k, or is that still not been done yet?
What about a half marathon, you raced one of those yet, what was your time?
Oh I forgot, you only recently completed the c25k.
Seriously OP, if you want to rush everything and endorse such a dangerous plan, then on your head be it.0 -
OK, this plan is assuming you are already a regular 3 mile plus jogger
Remember that distance is the key NOT speed or time. As always with all trail runs a combination of running and walking helps Try to run in the country on paths rather than on tarmac as it's easier on your feet and joints. It's amazing how quick your body does strengthen to do the distance.
Get a camel pack and fill it with electrolytes. On the longer runs take nuts, seeds, chocolate & jelly babies and eat continually (four jelly babies a mile) and stop half way to eat. Take Ibuprofen with you to get you through the little niggles.
and the bolded bit above really caps it for me.
OP do you know how dangerous taking Ibuprofen whilst running is? It can do your kidneys in.
Taking Ibuprofen whilst running will take away any pain, but that pain may be there for a reason, you numbing it will not stop the actual injury.
I cannot believe this, it is totally and utterly ludicrous.
ps OP, you read any books on running - I am thinking Born to Run by Chris McDougall or Eat and Run by Scott Jurek by any chance?
*waiting for the answer I suspect is the right one.*0 -
OK, this plan is assuming you are already a regular 3 mile plus jogger
Remember that distance is the key NOT speed or time. As always with all trail runs a combination of running and walking helps Try to run in the country on paths rather than on tarmac as it's easier on your feet and joints. It's amazing how quick your body does strengthen to do the distance.
Get a camel pack and fill it with electrolytes. On the longer runs take nuts, seeds, chocolate & jelly babies and eat continually (four jelly babies a mile) and stop half way to eat. Take Ibuprofen with you to get you through the little niggles.
and the bolded bit above really caps it for me.
OP do you know how dangerous taking Ibuprofen whilst running is? It can do your kidneys in.
Taking Ibuprofen whilst running will take away any pain, but that pain may be there for a reason, you numbing it will not stop the actual injury.
I cannot believe this, it is totally and utterly ludicrous.
ps OP, you read any books on running - I am thinking Born to Run by Chris McDougall or Eat and Run by Scott Jurek by any chance?
*waiting for the answer I suspect is the right one.*
The OP has a 25+ mile weekly base and considerable cardio fitness. Which is one thing he left out of his whole "this program is for newbies" spiel.0 -
This not a wise idea at all. It is a recipe for injury. There is absolutely no reason to jump from 5K to ultra in that short of a period of time. There are plenty of intermediate goals that are worthwhile. I just don't get why so many people feel like you have to run a marathon or longer to be considered a runner. Why not try for a 25 minute 5K? That still requires you to run nearly the same mileage that you would to train for a Half Marathon.
Running endurance is not built up over a period of weeks and months. It takes YEARS to build a proper aerobic base AND to condition the muscles, tendons and ligaments to be able to handle the rigors of marathon training. You can't rush it. There are no shortcuts. You just have to run and gradually build your mileage.
^^^ This. Excellent adivise. You would do well to take head. At best, for those starting out on their first half/marathon training program, recommend that 10% be the limit for each increase in a long run. Example: your last long rung was five miles. You next long run should be 5.5, no more than 6. This will allow your body to adapt to staying on your feet longer without the risk of of over stressing and injury.0 -
OK, this plan is assuming you are already a regular 3 mile plus jogger
Remember that distance is the key NOT speed or time. As always with all trail runs a combination of running and walking helps Try to run in the country on paths rather than on tarmac as it's easier on your feet and joints. It's amazing how quick your body does strengthen to do the distance.
Get a camel pack and fill it with electrolytes. On the longer runs take nuts, seeds, chocolate & jelly babies and eat continually (four jelly babies a mile) and stop half way to eat. Take Ibuprofen with you to get you through the little niggles.
and the bolded bit above really caps it for me.
OP do you know how dangerous taking Ibuprofen whilst running is? It can do your kidneys in.
Taking Ibuprofen whilst running will take away any pain, but that pain may be there for a reason, you numbing it will not stop the actual injury.
I cannot believe this, it is totally and utterly ludicrous.
ps OP, you read any books on running - I am thinking Born to Run by Chris McDougall or Eat and Run by Scott Jurek by any chance?
*waiting for the answer I suspect is the right one.*
The OP has a 25+ mile weekly base and considerable cardio fitness. Which is one thing he left out of his whole "this program is for newbies" spiel.
In that case, this whole thread is even more of a joke because absolutely nothing is truth from the beginning :laugh:0 -
OK, this plan is assuming you are already a regular 3 mile plus jogger
Remember that distance is the key NOT speed or time. As always with all trail runs a combination of running and walking helps Try to run in the country on paths rather than on tarmac as it's easier on your feet and joints. It's amazing how quick your body does strengthen to do the distance.
Get a camel pack and fill it with electrolytes. On the longer runs take nuts, seeds, chocolate & jelly babies and eat continually (four jelly babies a mile) and stop half way to eat. Take Ibuprofen with you to get you through the little niggles.
and the bolded bit above really caps it for me.
OP do you know how dangerous taking Ibuprofen whilst running is? It can do your kidneys in.
Taking Ibuprofen whilst running will take away any pain, but that pain may be there for a reason, you numbing it will not stop the actual injury.
I cannot believe this, it is totally and utterly ludicrous.
ps OP, you read any books on running - I am thinking Born to Run by Chris McDougall or Eat and Run by Scott Jurek by any chance?
*waiting for the answer I suspect is the right one.*
The OP has a 25+ mile weekly base and considerable cardio fitness. Which is one thing he left out of his whole "this program is for newbies" spiel.
In that case, this whole thread is even more of a joke because absolutely nothing is truth from the beginning :laugh:
Yeah. It's pretty awesome. As long as it doesn't get anybody hurt.0 -
OK, this plan is assuming you are already a regular 3 mile plus jogger
Remember that distance is the key NOT speed or time. As always with all trail runs a combination of running and walking helps Try to run in the country on paths rather than on tarmac as it's easier on your feet and joints. It's amazing how quick your body does strengthen to do the distance.
Get a camel pack and fill it with electrolytes. On the longer runs take nuts, seeds, chocolate & jelly babies and eat continually (four jelly babies a mile) and stop half way to eat. Take Ibuprofen with you to get you through the little niggles.
and the bolded bit above really caps it for me.
OP do you know how dangerous taking Ibuprofen whilst running is? It can do your kidneys in.
Taking Ibuprofen whilst running will take away any pain, but that pain may be there for a reason, you numbing it will not stop the actual injury.
I cannot believe this, it is totally and utterly ludicrous.
ps OP, you read any books on running - I am thinking Born to Run by Chris McDougall or Eat and Run by Scott Jurek by any chance?
*waiting for the answer I suspect is the right one.*
The OP has a 25+ mile weekly base and considerable cardio fitness. Which is one thing he left out of his whole "this program is for newbies" spiel.
In that case, this whole thread is even more of a joke because absolutely nothing is truth from the beginning :laugh:
Yeah. It's pretty awesome. As long as it doesn't get anybody hurt.
Yes, this is exactly what worries me on some threads, this one included. That's why I get so het up at them.
It is irresponsible
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So when is the big 15 miler?0
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So when is the big 15 miler?
According to the schedule (aka programme), it should be in about a week...at the end of week 4.
For mere mortals, this would definitely be the point where the likely unreasonableness of this approach will be most glaringly obvious. Am interested to learn how OP and his family fare with this distance just a month in.0 -
Well thanks for your concern all
It's the 15 miler on Sunday from Humberston, up to Horse Shoe point across to North Cotes then to Tetney and back along the sea wall to Humberston - all points in North East Lincolnshire(Google it all if you're interested) 13.1 miles for daughter Beth as in Mablethorpe Half Marathon.
I'll let you know how me and Mrs OP get on as I'm sure you're all rooting for us (Hhhmmmm)
We actually did a 6 miler last Saturday and a 11 miler on Sunday and all felt tired but pretty good after. This week so far done 2 x 5 milers
In brief answer to some of your queries: I do have a reasonable level of fitness (I used to run 5k three times a week before I started this plan - see the title of the post, and bike to work) and my best for a trail half marathon is 2 hours 32 mins (Ravenscar Coastal Half Marathon) done last April beaten by Beth who did it in 2 hours 31 min.
I don't run races much, as don't really see the point since I'm not very fast, I like to chat while I run, don't care where I finish and I hate paying the money out for nothing.
However, this race inspired us as we walked the Cleveland Way this year and loved the scenery and this run is over some of the same territory so thought we would give it a go.
..... anyway over to you Yanks to give me more 'inspirational' advice and complements, and for more 'Butt hurt'!0 -
Oh ... and less than a stone to go. Since doing the programme/schedule/plan/irresponsible idea I've nearly lost a stone!0
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For mere mortals, this would definitely be the point where the likely unreasonableness of this approach will be most glaringly obvious. Am interested to learn how OP and his family fare with this distance just a month in.
jofjltncb6, just looked at your previous and your many succinct posts on a whole host of subjects do make me laugh .... keep up the good work chap!0 -
For mere mortals, this would definitely be the point where the likely unreasonableness of this approach will be most glaringly obvious. Am interested to learn how OP and his family fare with this distance just a month in.
jofjltncb6, just looked at your previous and your many succinct posts on a whole host of subjects do make me laugh .... keep up the good work chap!
Jof is hilarious. When I have an off-day, I stalk his forum posts - they always cheer me up.0 -
To be absolutely clear, I sincerely wish you no harm from your running whether it's this program or another. You running yourself into an injury will not convince me any more that this program is a generally bad idea for 99.44% of runners whose current max is a 5k. (Also, you successfully completing the program without an injury will not convince me any *less* either.) That said, I am being absolutely sincere when I say I want to know how it goes for you.
My advice thus far in this thread not to follow this program is intended for a general audience. I'm standing behind this advice. Nonetheless, I secretly hope that you push through to the end (whether that's the end of the program or the end of your ability to continue pursuing it). We as a people would have advanced very little in our understanding of how things work (and don't work) without people willing to step out and do their own n=1 even in the face of overwhelming evidence that should lead them to conclude it's a Very Bad Idea™.
You're both too kind. :flowerforyou:
Jof is hilarious. When I have an off-day, I stalk his forum posts - they always cheer me up.For mere mortals, this would definitely be the point where the likely unreasonableness of this approach will be most glaringly obvious. Am interested to learn how OP and his family fare with this distance just a month in.
jofjltncb6, just looked at your previous and your many succinct posts on a whole host of subjects do make me laugh .... keep up the good work chap!0 -
To be absolutely clear, I sincerely wish you no harm from your running whether it's this program or another. You running yourself into an injury will not convince me any more that this program is a generally bad idea for 99.44% of runners whose current max is a 5k. (Also, you successfully completing the program without an injury will not convince me any *less* either.) That said, I am being absolutely sincere when I say I want to know how it goes for you.
My advice thus far in this thread not to follow this program is intended for a general audience. I'm standing behind this advice. Nonetheless, I secretly hope that you push through to the end (whether that's the end of the program or the end of your ability to continue pursuing it). We as a people would have advanced very little in our understanding of how things work (and don't work) without people willing to step out and do their own n=1 even in the face of overwhelming evidence that should lead them to conclude it's a Very Bad Idea™.
I agree.
My concern is that I'm active on the C25k boards and I see the "do or die" attitudes that people start running with. It takes some of them a couple of months to settle down and figure out what long-term success looks like. This plan isn't it for the majority of us.
Additionally, you have a considerable amount of aerobic fitness that most people doing the C25k program do not start (or finish) with. A lot of us are pretty surprised to not be doing 10 minute miles by the end of the 9 weeks.
So, I want it to be crystal clear what the expectations should be before starting this program. If somebody chooses to do this program, I want them to go into it fully armed with the realities of what they should expect if they are just starting out.0 -
Original post made you sound like much more of a novice than later posts.. that is all.... good luck0
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Bumping this one so I can check back every week to see how the family is doing.
I've done 5 halfs so far and have another one in 2 months. I still have loads to learn and found some great words of wisdom on this thread from other posters. Thanks!0 -
Bumping also. I'm training for my first half in December after completing a 5K a few weeks ago. This thread is fascinating.0
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To be absolutely clear, I sincerely wish you no harm from your running whether it's this program or another. You running yourself into an injury will not convince me any more that this program is a generally bad idea for 99.44% of runners whose current max is a 5k. (Also, you successfully completing the program without an injury will not convince me any *less* either.) That said, I am being absolutely sincere when I say I want to know how it goes for you.
My advice thus far in this thread not to follow this program is intended for a general audience. I'm standing behind this advice. Nonetheless, I secretly hope that you push through to the end (whether that's the end of the program or the end of your ability to continue pursuing it). We as a people would have advanced very little in our understanding of how things work (and don't work) without people willing to step out and do their own n=1 even in the face of overwhelming evidence that should lead them to conclude it's a Very Bad Idea™.
I agree.
My concern is that I'm active on the C25k boards and I see the "do or die" attitudes that people start running with. It takes some of them a couple of months to settle down and figure out what long-term success looks like. This plan isn't it for the majority of us.
Additionally, you have a considerable amount of aerobic fitness that most people doing the C25k program do not start (or finish) with. A lot of us are pretty surprised to not be doing 10 minute miles by the end of the 9 weeks.
So, I want it to be crystal clear what the expectations should be before starting this program. If somebody chooses to do this program, I want them to go into it fully armed with the realities of what they should expect if they are just starting out.
Precisely. It's not you that I'm concerned about OP, it's the other new runners that see the thread title and dive in with both feet and end up hurt and discouraged.0
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