My Pointless Soapbox

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  • SezxyStef
    SezxyStef Posts: 15,268 Member
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    cliff notes:

    stop fat bashing..

    the internet is mean ..

    and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

    and in...for the meanies..

    Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.

    I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.

    The mistaken assumption behind your post is that you think the world cares about your weight as a separate thing. We only care about your weight as it pertains to your health and fitness. Carrying too high a body fat percentage is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. Losing weight too quickly is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. We just want you to be healthy and stick around with us longer. This may include losing weight, but primarily it involves eating healthy foods in proper amounts and being more active. The weight loss ought to be a symptom of the change in behavior. NOT the primary focus. The primary focus should be that you feel better, that your doctor says good things about your cholesterol and insulin levels, that you can still run around with your kids/grand kids when you are in your 60s.
    Forget weight loss. Start focusing on being healthier, lifting more,eating better, running faster, feeling firmer, etc...
    We don't care what your scale says about you. We just love you and want you to be here with us and healthy for as long as possible!

    This is the tough love that is usually missing from snarky remarks. You sound like an awesome person.

    If every post were like this one, or even most, I would never complain. It gave me the warms.
  • mmapags
    mmapags Posts: 8,934 Member
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    I read articles and nutrition studies in my free time to both learn and pass on the knowledge. I can get you started if you would like. :)

    I would like that. I find a lot of the information on the forums is contradictory. Example: Starvation Mode. I see a post about it every day and some people post studies that show that it is a thing, and some people post studies that show that starvation mode can't happen to an obese person and then there is anecdotal evidence out the wazoo that support both claims. Me? I have no clue.

    Well here's the thing. (please read blunt but not attacking into my tone) Unless you are trying to do something likely unsustainable at best and whacky at worst, it doesn't really matter what "Starvation Mode" is. Too many times around here, as someone else already pointed out, just plain, old counting calories and getting a little exercise is not followed but many seem willing to try every fad, VLCD, Paleo, Low Carb, Cleanse, and what ever else, which are all more restrictive than calorie counting and exercise BTW.

    The whole idea of losing weight (or fat as we should all recognize the benefits of keeping as much Lean Body Mass as possible) is fairly simple. Use the tools here to determine your daily calorie goal (reasonably, without getting too aggressive), get adequate protein and fats first. The fill in with carbs. Get exercise 3 or 4 times per week. Rinse and repeat over the long term, like many months or even years until you are at a point where you are at a healthy weight and body composition.

    That's it.

    The problem around here and what can be a real pi$$ off for those who have been here for awhile is many are trying to make it much more complicated than this, always looking for the next sure fire gimmick to not have to reduce calories, be patient and work out. They put up info on every halfassed, broscience magazine article and blog that you can imagine. It's called majoring in the minors.

    Do the simple basics correctly over a period of time and you will get results. It is a simple as that. If you are interested in the science, great, but you don't need to understand and sort all that out to make progress. Here is wishing you well as you move forward!
  • rb16fitness
    rb16fitness Posts: 236 Member
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    Sigh.....People can't be bothered to sugar coat their comments; we're all adults here not toddlers. I honestly don't know how people survive life with such thin skin! Evidently some people can't differentiate between being direct and an actual personal attack on someone of being mean. They are not remotely the same thing.

    OP post a link to the fat hating you've seen on this site? - I suspect there isn't any!
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    cliff notes:

    stop fat bashing..

    the internet is mean ..

    and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

    and in...for the meanies..

    Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.

    I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.

    I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748

    Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.

    Some people really like to be miserable.

    These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.

    So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.
  • LiminalAscendance
    LiminalAscendance Posts: 489 Member
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    I think most will agree that the Net (like most things) sinks to the lowest common denominator, and that anonymity, coupled with groupthink, leads to some fairly unfavorable results.

    The point of the OP appears to be that overweight individuals should be excluded from this (i.e. not be treated like everyone else), because of all the "self loathing" (or whatever) and what they've had to put up with.

    I guess I just don't understand how the sympathy is warranted. I gained weight, didn't like what I saw, and then lost the weight. I didn't hope for some voodoo cure, and didn't expect to lose it in a month. I cut down on what I ate, and increased my exercise. It worked surprisingly well.

    I guess I'm lucky (it must be my metabolism). Or perhaps it's just that I understand that choices people make have consequences.

    The number of individuals that are overweight as a result of circumstances beyond their control are statistically insignificant (if they even exist). Please don't make inappropriate life decisions, and they try to claim foul when you're treated no differently than anyone else out there.
  • Greenrun99
    Greenrun99 Posts: 2,065 Member
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    I didn't read any responses just the OP

    If you ever sat on a plane next to someone that was spilling over into your seat, you understand the need for them to buy another plane ticket.. Planes have become public transportation nowadays stuffing as many people as they can into a small plane.. so I have no problem if you want to be overweight but there is a price for that.

    As for not eating enough, people think losing weight requires them to eat as little as possible then they will lose weight in 5 days it took them 5 years to put on.. and complain when they don't.. Its a simple thing to just Search before posting, or even for some people scroll down 2 topics to read the other exact same topic..

    And people are generally mean and full of hate.. its just easier for them to express it on the internet than in person
  • Clint9913
    Clint9913 Posts: 15
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    Ian_Stewart said:

    The mistaken assumption behind your post is that you think the world cares about your weight as a separate thing. We only care about your weight as it pertains to your health and fitness. Carrying too high a body fat percentage is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. Losing weight too quickly is unhealthy and likely to shorten your life. We just want you to be healthy and stick around with us longer. This may include losing weight, but primarily it involves eating healthy foods in proper amounts and being more active. The weight loss ought to be a symptom of the change in behavior. NOT the primary focus. The primary focus should be that you feel better, that your doctor says good things about your cholesterol and insulin levels, that you can still run around with your kids/grand kids when you are in your 60s.
    Forget weight loss. Start focusing on being healthier, lifting more,eating better, running faster, feeling firmer, etc...
    We don't care what your scale says about you. We just love you and want you to be here with us and healthy for as long as possible!
    Sir, you've summed up the path to complete success of body, mind, and spirit. Bravo.
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    Sigh.....People can't be bothered to sugar coat their comments; we're all adults here not toddlers. I honestly don't know how people survive life with such thin skin! Evidently some people can't differentiate between being direct and an actual personal attack on someone of being mean. They are not remotely the same thing.

    OP post a link to the fat hating you've seen on this site? - I suspect there isn't any!

    The FAT hating posts I've seen were not on this site. That came from Reddit.
  • hookilau
    hookilau Posts: 3,134 Member
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    hey!!!
    I've got a pointless soapbox tooo :tongue: but when I feel like breaking it out, I do this instead....
    tumblr_mr0zx5J8zM1saa8d8o1_500.gif
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    I think most will agree that the Net (like most things) sinks to the lowest common denominator, and that anonymity, coupled with groupthink, leads to some fairly unfavorable results.

    The point of the OP appears to be that overweight individuals should be excluded from this (i.e. not be treated like everyone else), because of all the "self loathing" (or whatever) and what they've had to put up with.

    I guess I just don't understand how the sympathy is warranted. I gained weight, didn't like what I saw, and then lost the weight. I didn't hope for some voodoo cure, and didn't expect to lose it in a month. I cut down on what I ate, and increased my exercise. It worked surprisingly well.

    I guess I'm lucky (it must be my metabolism). Or perhaps it's just that I understand that choices people make have consequences.

    The number of individuals that are overweight as a result of circumstances beyond their control are statistically insignificant (if they even exist). Please don't make inappropriate life decisions, and they try to claim foul when you're treated no differently than anyone else out there.


    I believe what I said was: Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.

    That is an all-inclusive statement. Be kind to your fellow human beings.

    In my bid for compassion I gave examples of how pain would drive someone to try to lose weight and how being overly critical to the point of being abusive is piling on someone who hasn't done anything to deserve it.

    Am I really wrong in this?
  • beachlover317
    beachlover317 Posts: 2,848 Member
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    cliff notes:

    stop fat bashing..

    the internet is mean ..

    and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

    and in...for the meanies..

    Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.

    I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.

    I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748

    Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.

    Some people really like to be miserable.

    These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.

    So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.

    Seriously? I read enough comments to make me think - hey wait a minute: Maybe I am being dumb. Maybe I am clinging to old dieting habits - just HOPING that a miracle will happen and I'll be at goal weight in a few months. When I started reading all the comments on MFP - I began to examine my own goals and realized that I WAS being dumb. You know the saying, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"? I was stuck there. Stuck in "being miserable".

    I got a wake up call by reading comments like these on MFP. It worked for me. I started listening, reading, and learning. Learning from the same people that were fed up with people going down the wrong road over and over. Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.
  • CeleryStalker
    CeleryStalker Posts: 665 Member
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    and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

    In other words, eat more.....
    Generally speaking, if a person isn't losing weight, telling them to "eat moar calories" is not the answer, and yet that's the advice I see most often. Sometimes I think people just come here for permission to eat more, and others come to enable them. When "I'm not losing weight" is followed by "should I be eating more?", it's not hard to see what's really going on with the person.

    In other words, eat less...


    And people wonder why there is so much snark and debate around here? These conflicting viewpoints were on just one page, within a few posts of each other. Wash, rinse, and repeat through the entire forum, and it's easy to understand where confusion and bickering about which method is correct can come from.

    As for me, I'm thankful for the people who introduced me to the idea that I was eating far too little. It was that feedback that allowed me to take a step back, realize there was merit to what was being said, and now I'm happily eating more and making progress towards my goal to a slimmer me. Oddly enough, those 'eat more' posts were never demeaning. On the other hand, the responses others made to those folks were extremely confrontational, filled with snark, name calling, and all the other typical BS that floats around this place. And that tide changes with the wind apparently. You never really know what group is going to pounce. And god forbid you ask that only people using the same approach respond, an in effort to keep the bickering out of your thread. That's just asking for it.
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    cliff notes:

    stop fat bashing..

    the internet is mean ..

    and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

    and in...for the meanies..

    Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.

    I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.

    I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748

    Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.

    Some people really like to be miserable.

    These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.

    So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.

    Seriously? I read enough comments to make me think - hey wait a minute: Maybe I am being dumb. Maybe I am clinging to old dieting habits - just HOPING that a miracle will happen and I'll be at goal weight in a few months. When I started reading all the comments on MFP - I began to examine my own goals and realized that I WAS being dumb. You know the saying, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"? I was stuck there. Stuck in "being miserable".

    I got a wake up call by reading comments like these on MFP. It worked for me. I started listening, reading, and learning. Learning from the same people that were fed up with people going down the wrong road over and over. Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.

    I'm glad that worked for you, you've made amazing progress! I hope that I can be as committed as you have been!
  • beachlover317
    beachlover317 Posts: 2,848 Member
    Options
    cliff notes:

    stop fat bashing..

    the internet is mean ..

    and if you call someone out for starvation diet you are being mean and inconsiderate...

    and in...for the meanies..

    Your cliff notes are inaccurate. In my original post AND in several follow up posts I encouraged people to offer guidance to those who are making unhealthy choices. Calling someone out is not the same thing as calling someone names, the latter of which is what I am protesting.

    I want to see the posts where someone who is not being a jerk and saying your advice is not what I wanted to hear is called a name...just one post will do.

    I went for a blog I saw recently because it was easier to pick from my history:

    http://www.myfitnesspal.com/blog/Shiels1988/view/cleanse-595748

    Don't be dumb. Seriously. Don't.

    Some people really like to be miserable.

    These comments came BEFORE the original poster started to be defensive.

    So, I ask seriously, HOW is this being helpful? Offering advice? Trying to steer someone in the right direction? THIS is fairly mild compared to some of the other things I've seen on this site. The thing is, IT IS NOT HELPFUL. Once you call someone "dumb" they're not going to listen to anything else you have to say.

    Seriously? I read enough comments to make me think - hey wait a minute: Maybe I am being dumb. Maybe I am clinging to old dieting habits - just HOPING that a miracle will happen and I'll be at goal weight in a few months. When I started reading all the comments on MFP - I began to examine my own goals and realized that I WAS being dumb. You know the saying, "doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results"? I was stuck there. Stuck in "being miserable".

    I got a wake up call by reading comments like these on MFP. It worked for me. I started listening, reading, and learning. Learning from the same people that were fed up with people going down the wrong road over and over. Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.

    I'm glad that worked for you, you've made amazing progress! I hope that I can be as committed as you have been!

    Yes, you can be one of the ones who succeed. It is about commitment. It's about building healthy habits that will carry you through, well, forever.

    Some on MFP say we're all here for the same reason. I just don't buy that in total. Most are here to get healthy. But how we get there is a very individual experience. We all have to eat at a calorie deficit and exercise - but our reasons for being overweight are individual. You never know when what you say may ignite the spark in someone reading your comments. So, having ALL people comment on posts is helpful. Read what works or speaks to you. Disregard the rest. We're adults here.
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    You never know when what you say may ignite the spark in someone reading your comments. So, having ALL people comment on posts is helpful. Read what works or speaks to you. Disregard the rest. We're adults here.

    You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.
  • CeleryStalker
    CeleryStalker Posts: 665 Member
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    Check out my ticker. I'm feeing pretty good about myself now.

    1. Awesome job! Seriously!
    2. Is that a home made poptart in your ticker pic? :huh: :laugh: It looks yummy!
  • Clint9913
    Clint9913 Posts: 15
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    I just left a thread on a popular social networking site where an opinion was expressed about how fat people should be forced to pay extra any time they use any sort of transportation other than their own cars. There was a lot of supporters, many who expressed their thought that obese people are disgusting, ugly, smelly, and essentially wastes of flesh.

    It's not an uncommon opinion. I can't think of any social networking site I have participated on where bashing people for being over-weight was not a "thing."

    Here, I find a different kind of thread. People are called stupid for eating too few calories, rushing to lose weight, etc.

    People who bash the fatties dress up their hatred in pretty clothes, claiming that they are offering "tough love" or just expressing their opinion. The same goes here for those who bash the extreme dieters.

    It's impossible to win.

    I've known this for years. I've known that there is no point arguing, there is no point in pointing out that a person is being hurtful because:

    This is the internet
    If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen
    People are *kitten*, get over it

    This, my friends, is a cop out. It is a way to justify letting out anger, disgust, frustration, and loathing on someone who has not done anything to truly deserve it, and to do so without consequence.

    And you know what? It fracking sucks. A person driven by all the hurt and self-loathing generated by how they are treated because they are fat to lose weight, signs up for a site in the hopes that they can finally obtain that ideal standard of fitness and beauty, and when try, they actually TRY to do something to change themselves, they can't catch a break. They still get caught up in the same vicious criticism that drove them to lose weight.

    I am not suggesting that it is a bad thing to redirect people who are using unhealthy methods to lose weight. People need guidance. However, in my entirely pointless plea, I am going to request that before you hit "post" on your next comment, you take a moment to THINK about what you're saying. Think about all the shame and pain a person has to be carrying around already to drive them to try living on 500 calories a day. Are you REALLY trying to "help" when you call someone an idiot, or tell them that their choices are stupid?

    By the way, this is not a response to anything anyone has said to me personally. First, no one has ever said anything unkind to me on this site, although I see unkind things said daily to other people. Second, everyone can feel free to bash me if they need to get it out of their system. I already know I am fracked up, I make crap decisions daily, and no one could possibly say anything to me that could add to the pile of self-loathing I've made for myself.

    Anyway, the TL;DR here is simple:

    Be a decent human being to the people around you, regardless of how you encounter them. Please.
    Spot on.
  • I_Will_End_You
    I_Will_End_You Posts: 4,397 Member
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    You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.

    Calorie deficits work for everyone.
  • thickerella
    thickerella Posts: 154 Member
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    You know, this is a valid point. What works for some isn't going to work for others. Thank you for your input.

    Calorie deficits work for everyone.

    While you are correct, in this instance I was referring to the motivation that keeps someone going, not the methodology behind their weight loss.

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