Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!

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Replies

  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.

    Fairy tales of all kinds are still read frequently at our house. We love fiction, especially if it includes fairies, wizards, magic, etc. The difference is, we acknowledge it as good fiction, a place where we can take our minds for a time to escape reality. Our favorite when the kids were small was the Harry Potter series.
  • ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.
    So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    I never wanted to tell my daughter the santa lie until my extended started talking to her about it and I saw how excited she got. There's something "magical" about it to a child, and I've since changed my potition. I'm ok with my little girl believing in Santa if it brings her this much joy and excitment. I know one day when she learns the truth she will be crushed, and that in and of itself will be a good learning experience.

    If that's you daughter in the photo, I can't blame you. Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,484 Member
    ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.
    So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?

    I love how you completely miss my point so that you can ignore it.

    That's OK, though. Maybe this is one of those abstract ideas someone who never fully developed an imagination can't grasp. :flowerforyou:
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.
    So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?

    I love how you completely miss my point so that you can ignore it.

    That's OK, though. Maybe this is one of those abstract ideas someone who never fully developed an imagination can't grasp. :flowerforyou:

    Interesting because I am sure that you are the one missing the point.

    You can embrace fantasy without calling it factual! :wink:
  • neandermagnon
    neandermagnon Posts: 7,479 Member
    I can't believe this thread is still going....

    kids don't lose out if they don't do Santa. There are children from all kinds of non-Christian religions all over the world who don't have Santa but still manage to have happy childhoods and develop an imagination, sense of wonder and an ability to think outside the box....

    ...and finding out that Santa doesn't exist doesn't emotionally damage children. There may be cases where a lot of other dodgy stuff is going on and finding out that Santa doesn't exist is the last straw that broke the donkey's back, but in those cases it's the other stuff that's caused the real damage. And if the worst thing you experienced in your childhood was finding out that Santa doesn't exist, then you clearly had a great childhood and the disappointment you experienced probably taught you a valuable life lesson.

    Just do what you think's best for your kids and your family. If you don't feel comfortable lying to them, then don't. If you want them to have that excitement and wonder that believing in Santa gives them, then let them have that and don't sweat it. Either way the fact that you care about your kids means that they're probably going to have a great childhood anyway, regardless of what you actually decide on this issue.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,484 Member
    Interesting because I am sure that you are the one missing the point.

    You can embrace fantasy without calling it factual!

    I never said anything like that.
  • ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.
    So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?

    I love how you completely miss my point so that you can ignore it.

    That's OK, though. Maybe this is one of those abstract ideas someone who never fully developed an imagination can't grasp. :flowerforyou:
    No I get it only those who believe can possibly comprehend abstract. Only those who were duped into complete faith in the magical can dream. Those who experience fiction as fiction could never expand their minds to the point of discovery because they never truly believed. I get it, those who can enjoy a fiction with out thinking it is real are at an intellectual disadvantage. Those who can separate the real from the pretend and still enjoy the pretend are some how less imaginative.

    See I understand you are superior.:noway:
  • PhearlessPhreaks
    PhearlessPhreaks Posts: 890 Member


    Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?

    I haven't figured that out yet. I am still trying to figure out why people are so adamant that kids shouldn't be told the truth when they ask about Santa. Their lack of logic and their willingness to embrace fiction so tightly reminds me of religious folks.

    I don't understand insisting that Santa is real when a child is old enough to question it either... I think I was about 8 or 9 when an older cousin told me santa claus wasn't real. When I asked my mom about it, she told me the truth. Would she have been honest with me at 5 or 6? Perhaps not, but I guess she figured since my cousin "outed" the whole deal and I wasn't distraught over it, that it was time to tell me. I also understood the "deception" to not be a malicious thing, which is why I didn't freak out about it, nor did I ruin it for my younger brother and sister, 4 and 6 years younger than I, respectively.

    Did finding out that santa wasn't real ruin my faith in my parents? Nope, I got it, even at that age. Did it ruin the "magic" of Christmas for me? Nope. I'm 33 and still find a certain mystical, magical quality about the season. The lights, the sounds, the colors, the food, the festivities, the snow, (and for me, as a catholic) it's all a buildup to Christmas eve... I love it. And I intend on cultivating that love and awe of the season with my daughters. :smile:
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,484 Member
    kids don't lose out if they don't do Santa. There are children from all kinds of non-Christian religions all over the world who don't have Santa but still manage to have happy childhoods and develop an imagination, sense of wonder and an ability to think outside the box....

    Santa's simply an example. Obviously, kids who don't celebrate Christmas don't do the Santa thing. But pretty much every culture and religion has something similar.

    My issue isn't with not "doing" Santa. It's the complete refusal to allow any real fantasy in a child's life that I have a problem with.
  • kamakazeekim
    kamakazeekim Posts: 1,183 Member
    My daughter is 5 and recently told me that the Santa and Easter Bunny that we see at the store and Easter egg hunt are actually their helpers because they can't be everywhere at once. The real Santa and Easter Bunny only come on the actual holiday. Every year we put out a reindeer snack scattered in the backyard and cookies for Santa. All the kids I've ever known just kinda grow out of Santa and the Easter Bunny which I always find a little sad because that means that they're losing a little bit of their innocence and getting a little more cynical about the world.
  • SkinnyFatAlbert
    SkinnyFatAlbert Posts: 482 Member
    Yeesh. People are so passionate about what amoutns to a non-issue. What's the big deal either way? Your not a bad parent for telling your kid the truth (hello, McFly, it's the truth!) and they're probably not missing out on THAT much. On the other end a couple years of harmless white lies aren't going to warp your kid either. Eventually the kid is going to start asking the logical questions (How does he get to everyone in one night? How does he fit down a chimney? etc) and that's time to tell them the truth. As long as they don't end up 12 years old expecting to see flying reindeer and talking snow men you've met your minimum chriteria as a parent.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,484 Member
    Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.

    So everything you've said here is BS. Your children did believe and as they got older and became more skeptical (and all kids do), they learned there was no Santa.

    You're arguing for something you didn't even do with your own kids while claiming you did.
  • SkinnyFatAlbert
    SkinnyFatAlbert Posts: 482 Member
    Also, for the record, the origins of Santa are pagan:

    "Prior to Christianization, the Germanic peoples (including the English; Old English geola or guili) celebrated a midwinter event called Yule.[12] With the Christianization of Germanic Europe, numerous traditions were absorbed from Yuletide celebrations into modern Christmas.[13] During this period, supernatural and ghostly occurrences were said to increase in frequency, such as the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky. The leader of the wild hunt is frequently attested as the god Odin and he bears the Old Norse names Jólnir, meaning "yule figure" and the name Langbarðr, meaning "long-beard" (see list of names of Odin).[14]"
  • KindredSouls
    KindredSouls Posts: 188 Member
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  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    Interesting because I am sure that you are the one missing the point.

    You can embrace fantasy without calling it factual!

    I never said anything like that.

    That seems to be what you've been saying this entire time, even that you had sympathy for such children who might hear stories about other myths and legends, but if it isn't Santa, then you feel sorry for them.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    I can't believe this thread is still going....

    kids don't lose out if they don't do Santa. There are children from all kinds of non-Christian religions all over the world who don't have Santa but still manage to have happy childhoods and develop an imagination, sense of wonder and an ability to think outside the box....

    ...and finding out that Santa doesn't exist doesn't emotionally damage children. There may be cases where a lot of other dodgy stuff is going on and finding out that Santa doesn't exist is the last straw that broke the donkey's back, but in those cases it's the other stuff that's caused the real damage. And if the worst thing you experienced in your childhood was finding out that Santa doesn't exist, then you clearly had a great childhood and the disappointment you experienced probably taught you a valuable life lesson.

    Just do what you think's best for your kids and your family. If you don't feel comfortable lying to them, then don't. If you want them to have that excitement and wonder that believing in Santa gives them, then let them have that and don't sweat it. Either way the fact that you care about your kids means that they're probably going to have a great childhood anyway, regardless of what you actually decide on this issue.

    Nice summation! Agree 100%
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    kids don't lose out if they don't do Santa. There are children from all kinds of non-Christian religions all over the world who don't have Santa but still manage to have happy childhoods and develop an imagination, sense of wonder and an ability to think outside the box....

    Santa's simply an example. Obviously, kids who don't celebrate Christmas don't do the Santa thing. But pretty much every culture and religion has something similar.

    My issue isn't with not "doing" Santa. It's the complete refusal to allow any real fantasy in a child's life that I have a problem with.

    No one in this thread has said they would disallow their children from enjoying fantasy.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.

    So everything you've said here is BS. Your children did believe and as they got older and became more skeptical (and all kids do), they learned there was no Santa.

    You're arguing for something you didn't even do with your own kids while claiming you did.

    HA! I was just about to say the same to you! :laugh: :laugh:

    Actually, I stated in Part One of this that my kids got their pics taken at the mall and that when kids are little, they can't comprehend the difference between fantasy and reality. I doubt anyone has taken the time to understand my viewpoint. Not surprising.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,282 Member
    Yeesh. People are so passionate about what amoutns to a non-issue. What's the big deal either way? Your not a bad parent for telling your kid the truth (hello, McFly, it's the truth!) and they're probably not missing out on THAT much. On the other end a couple years of harmless white lies aren't going to warp your kid either. Eventually the kid is going to start asking the logical questions (How does he get to everyone in one night? How does he fit down a chimney? etc) and that's time to tell them the truth. As long as they don't end up 12 years old expecting to see flying reindeer and talking snow men you've met your minimum chriteria as a parent.

    Agreed!