Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!
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Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?
He would be himself (and variations thereof), not representing another. He is already endowed with god-like traits.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus
Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas, Kris Kringle and simply "Santa", is a fantasy figure with legendary, mythical, historical and folkloric origins who, in many western cultures, is said to bring gifts to the homes of the good children on the night before Christmas, December 24. However in some European countries children receive their presents on St. Nicholas' Day, December 6.[1] The modern figure of Santa Claus was derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, which, in turn, was part of its basis in hagiographical tales concerning the historical figure of Christian bishop and gift giver Saint Nicholas. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky.0 -
Wow. I am really surprised at the amount of time some of the parents on MFP have spent debating Santa Clause this afternoon. Actually, the first thread started this morning.
Here's an idea. Tell you kids about Santa or don't. I am so thankful that I did not have these distractions when I was parenting many years ago.0 -
Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!
Walter the Farting Dog...it's a classic0 -
Well, I am going through this thread and I'm making a list!
I'm seeing who has been naughty and who had been nice.
I'm checking it twice....0 -
i was 12 before i learned...my mom was really good she literally made Christmas magic complete with reindeer poop and santa's foot prints. It was a special time my Mom took me out to lunch told me about the real meaning of Christmas and passed the torch to me. I think it was one of the best Christmas' because now I could make it magic like my Mom.
My child will know about the magic of Christmas. There will be plenty of time as an adult to learn there is no such thing as magic.
Oh and to this day I still look for the red glowing light in the sky0 -
I can deal with Santa being bogus but just don't tell me that Walter the Farting Dog is fake!!! :huh:
trust me dog farts are very real0 -
To me, the notion of Santa Claus as a necessary part of childhood is to place Santa as a religious figure.
Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?
St. Nicholas, whose feast day is December 6, had a penchant for secret gift giving, and as a result became the model for Santa Claus.
I am aware of his origins. But Santa Claus is not a religious figure in any religion I am aware of.0 -
I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?
Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.
As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.
I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.
It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.0 -
^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.0 -
I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?
Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.
As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.
I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.
It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.
Cheers to that. Honestly, I think the best way to screw up your kids is to focus so much on how your own childhood was screwed up that you forget that your kids aren't you. Its the worst form of selfishness0 -
This thread reminded me that I need to move my kid's elf... Thanks for your support.0
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I just started the Santa tradition with our son this year. We put up "landing strip" lights on the roof so Santa can make a safe landing. We've all had hours and hours of fun with it. If he's half as laid back as his father and I were when we discovered the fib, he'll far more appreciate the years of fun we've had despite the few minutes of disappointment he might feel.0
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derpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderp....0
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You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.0 -
I just started the Santa tradition with our son this year. We put up "landing strip" lights on the roof so Santa can make a safe landing. We've all had hours and hours of fun with it. If he's half as laid back as his father and I were when we discovered the fib, he'll far more appreciate the years of fun we've had despite the few minutes of disappointment he might feel.
One year, I sat on the mall Santa's lap and told him what I wanted for Christmas. I never expected to get every single thing I asked for and I don't think we did a letter to Santaor anything that year, but Christmas morning, every single thing I wanted was under the tree (I never asked for really major, expensive things -- it was like dolls and a cradle for my dolls, stuff like that).
I was so impressed with Santa's memory. Now that I know it was actually my parents (probably my mother) who listened closely to what I said that day and remembered and got it all for me, it's that much more special. I have no anger or resentment or anything like that. It was love, not lying.0 -
To me, the notion of Santa Claus as a necessary part of childhood is to place Santa as a religious figure.
Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?
St. Nicholas, whose feast day is December 6, had a penchant for secret gift giving, and as a result became the model for Santa Claus.
I am aware of his origins. But Santa Claus is not a religious figure in any religion I am aware of.
OK, but that's not what you asked. You asked what religious person does santa *represent*. He represents St. Nicholas. Asking who he represents is different from asking in what religion he is a religious figure.
ETA: we're on the same page in this discussion, just so you know! :flowerforyou:0 -
This thread reminds me of the time my brother shot a deer, showed it to all the neighborhood kids, and explained that he had finally killed Bambi. Some people enjoy mystery and some people enjoy sucking the life out of the party. They both have their fun . . .
Mystery? To me, telling kids that you killed Bambi is cruel, not mysterious.0 -
Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?
I haven't figured that out yet. I am still trying to figure out why people are so adamant that kids shouldn't be told the truth when they ask about Santa. Their lack of logic and their willingness to embrace fiction so tightly reminds me of religious folks.0 -
I never wanted to tell my daughter the santa lie until my extended started talking to her about it and I saw how excited she got. There's something "magical" about it to a child, and I've since changed my potition. I'm ok with my little girl believing in Santa if it brings her this much joy and excitment. I know one day when she learns the truth she will be crushed, and that in and of itself will be a good learning experience.0
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You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
Fairy tales of all kinds are still read frequently at our house. We love fiction, especially if it includes fairies, wizards, magic, etc. The difference is, we acknowledge it as good fiction, a place where we can take our minds for a time to escape reality. Our favorite when the kids were small was the Harry Potter series.0 -
So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?
You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.0 -
I never wanted to tell my daughter the santa lie until my extended started talking to her about it and I saw how excited she got. There's something "magical" about it to a child, and I've since changed my potition. I'm ok with my little girl believing in Santa if it brings her this much joy and excitment. I know one day when she learns the truth she will be crushed, and that in and of itself will be a good learning experience.
If that's you daughter in the photo, I can't blame you. Little ones struggle to differentiate fantasy from reality. When we told the truth is when they point-blank asked us. Our daughter was about 8.0 -
So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?
You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
I love how you completely miss my point so that you can ignore it.
That's OK, though. Maybe this is one of those abstract ideas someone who never fully developed an imagination can't grasp. :flowerforyou:0 -
So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?
You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
I love how you completely miss my point so that you can ignore it.
That's OK, though. Maybe this is one of those abstract ideas someone who never fully developed an imagination can't grasp. :flowerforyou:
Interesting because I am sure that you are the one missing the point.
You can embrace fantasy without calling it factual!
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I can't believe this thread is still going....
kids don't lose out if they don't do Santa. There are children from all kinds of non-Christian religions all over the world who don't have Santa but still manage to have happy childhoods and develop an imagination, sense of wonder and an ability to think outside the box....
...and finding out that Santa doesn't exist doesn't emotionally damage children. There may be cases where a lot of other dodgy stuff is going on and finding out that Santa doesn't exist is the last straw that broke the donkey's back, but in those cases it's the other stuff that's caused the real damage. And if the worst thing you experienced in your childhood was finding out that Santa doesn't exist, then you clearly had a great childhood and the disappointment you experienced probably taught you a valuable life lesson.
Just do what you think's best for your kids and your family. If you don't feel comfortable lying to them, then don't. If you want them to have that excitement and wonder that believing in Santa gives them, then let them have that and don't sweat it. Either way the fact that you care about your kids means that they're probably going to have a great childhood anyway, regardless of what you actually decide on this issue.0 -
Interesting because I am sure that you are the one missing the point.
You can embrace fantasy without calling it factual!
I never said anything like that.0 -
No I get it only those who believe can possibly comprehend abstract. Only those who were duped into complete faith in the magical can dream. Those who experience fiction as fiction could never expand their minds to the point of discovery because they never truly believed. I get it, those who can enjoy a fiction with out thinking it is real are at an intellectual disadvantage. Those who can separate the real from the pretend and still enjoy the pretend are some how less imaginative.
So what abstract concept did believing in Santa help you understand that you feel you would never have been able to understand with out the myth of Santa being fed to you as fact when you were a tot?
You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.^^Nicely said.
Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
I love how you completely miss my point so that you can ignore it.
That's OK, though. Maybe this is one of those abstract ideas someone who never fully developed an imagination can't grasp. :flowerforyou:
See I understand you are superior.:noway:0 -
Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?
I haven't figured that out yet. I am still trying to figure out why people are so adamant that kids shouldn't be told the truth when they ask about Santa. Their lack of logic and their willingness to embrace fiction so tightly reminds me of religious folks.
I don't understand insisting that Santa is real when a child is old enough to question it either... I think I was about 8 or 9 when an older cousin told me santa claus wasn't real. When I asked my mom about it, she told me the truth. Would she have been honest with me at 5 or 6? Perhaps not, but I guess she figured since my cousin "outed" the whole deal and I wasn't distraught over it, that it was time to tell me. I also understood the "deception" to not be a malicious thing, which is why I didn't freak out about it, nor did I ruin it for my younger brother and sister, 4 and 6 years younger than I, respectively.
Did finding out that santa wasn't real ruin my faith in my parents? Nope, I got it, even at that age. Did it ruin the "magic" of Christmas for me? Nope. I'm 33 and still find a certain mystical, magical quality about the season. The lights, the sounds, the colors, the food, the festivities, the snow, (and for me, as a catholic) it's all a buildup to Christmas eve... I love it. And I intend on cultivating that love and awe of the season with my daughters.
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kids don't lose out if they don't do Santa. There are children from all kinds of non-Christian religions all over the world who don't have Santa but still manage to have happy childhoods and develop an imagination, sense of wonder and an ability to think outside the box....
Santa's simply an example. Obviously, kids who don't celebrate Christmas don't do the Santa thing. But pretty much every culture and religion has something similar.
My issue isn't with not "doing" Santa. It's the complete refusal to allow any real fantasy in a child's life that I have a problem with.0 -
My daughter is 5 and recently told me that the Santa and Easter Bunny that we see at the store and Easter egg hunt are actually their helpers because they can't be everywhere at once. The real Santa and Easter Bunny only come on the actual holiday. Every year we put out a reindeer snack scattered in the backyard and cookies for Santa. All the kids I've ever known just kinda grow out of Santa and the Easter Bunny which I always find a little sad because that means that they're losing a little bit of their innocence and getting a little more cynical about the world.0
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