Santa!?!?! I hate the lie!

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  • emirror
    emirror Posts: 842 Member
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    Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?

    He would be himself (and variations thereof), not representing another. He is already endowed with god-like traits.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Claus

    Santa Claus, also known as Saint Nicholas, Father Christmas, Kris Kringle and simply "Santa", is a fantasy figure with legendary, mythical, historical and folkloric origins who, in many western cultures, is said to bring gifts to the homes of the good children on the night before Christmas, December 24. However in some European countries children receive their presents on St. Nicholas' Day, December 6.[1] The modern figure of Santa Claus was derived from the Dutch figure of Sinterklaas, which, in turn, was part of its basis in hagiographical tales concerning the historical figure of Christian bishop and gift giver Saint Nicholas. During the Christianization of Germanic Europe, this figure may have absorbed elements of the god Odin, who was associated with the Germanic pagan midwinter event of Yule and led the Wild Hunt, a ghostly procession through the sky.
  • beachlover317
    beachlover317 Posts: 2,848 Member
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    Wow. I am really surprised at the amount of time some of the parents on MFP have spent debating Santa Clause this afternoon. Actually, the first thread started this morning.

    Here's an idea. Tell you kids about Santa or don't. I am so thankful that I did not have these distractions when I was parenting many years ago.
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
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    Is there really a book called The Farting Dog?! I need to find that!

    Walter the Farting Dog...it's a classic
  • msf74
    msf74 Posts: 3,498 Member
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    Well, I am going through this thread and I'm making a list!

    I'm seeing who has been naughty and who had been nice.

    I'm checking it twice....
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
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    i was 12 before i learned...my mom was really good she literally made Christmas magic complete with reindeer poop and santa's foot prints. It was a special time my Mom took me out to lunch told me about the real meaning of Christmas and passed the torch to me. I think it was one of the best Christmas' because now I could make it magic like my Mom.

    My child will know about the magic of Christmas. There will be plenty of time as an adult to learn there is no such thing as magic.

    Oh and to this day I still look for the red glowing light in the sky
  • ldrosophila
    ldrosophila Posts: 7,512 Member
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    I can deal with Santa being bogus but just don't tell me that Walter the Farting Dog is fake!!! :huh:

    trust me dog farts are very real
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    To me, the notion of Santa Claus as a necessary part of childhood is to place Santa as a religious figure.

    Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?

    St. Nicholas, whose feast day is December 6, had a penchant for secret gift giving, and as a result became the model for Santa Claus.

    I am aware of his origins. But Santa Claus is not a religious figure in any religion I am aware of.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?

    Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.

    As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.

    I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.

    It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.
  • QuietBloom
    QuietBloom Posts: 5,413 Member
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    ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
  • BeachIron
    BeachIron Posts: 6,490 Member
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    I see plenty of real beauty in the world, and plenty of beauty in real people, that I don't need to make up fake characters to tell my children to believe in. Why waste time with lies? Why not appreciate our world how it is?

    Because looking up at the sky and seeing nothing more than water vapor and light being filtered through the atmosphere is a sad thing. And you took that choice, the choice to either believe (even if for a short time) in magic or be skeptical of it on her own away from your daughter.

    As terrible as you say your childhood was, at least no one stole that from you.

    I am not a religious person. I didn't take my daughter to church or force any beliefs on her. But I also didn't burst her bubble when she believed in something just because I could. You have put a forced stop to the development of wonder and to her personal development of critical thinking. She won't be able to figure out any answers for herself or choose what to believe in.

    It's sad when parents so blatantly project their own insecurities onto their children. It's sad when they can't disconnect from their own traumas in order to allow their children to find their own way in the world.

    Cheers to that. Honestly, I think the best way to screw up your kids is to focus so much on how your own childhood was screwed up that you forget that your kids aren't you. Its the worst form of selfishness
  • _John_
    _John_ Posts: 8,642 Member
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    This thread reminded me that I need to move my kid's elf... Thanks for your support.
  • brower47
    brower47 Posts: 16,356 Member
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    I just started the Santa tradition with our son this year. We put up "landing strip" lights on the roof so Santa can make a safe landing. We've all had hours and hours of fun with it. If he's half as laid back as his father and I were when we discovered the fib, he'll far more appreciate the years of fun we've had despite the few minutes of disappointment he might feel.
  • cwolfman13
    cwolfman13 Posts: 41,874 Member
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    derpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderpderp....
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    I just started the Santa tradition with our son this year. We put up "landing strip" lights on the roof so Santa can make a safe landing. We've all had hours and hours of fun with it. If he's half as laid back as his father and I were when we discovered the fib, he'll far more appreciate the years of fun we've had despite the few minutes of disappointment he might feel.

    One year, I sat on the mall Santa's lap and told him what I wanted for Christmas. I never expected to get every single thing I asked for and I don't think we did a letter to Santaor anything that year, but Christmas morning, every single thing I wanted was under the tree (I never asked for really major, expensive things -- it was like dolls and a cradle for my dolls, stuff like that).

    I was so impressed with Santa's memory. Now that I know it was actually my parents (probably my mother) who listened closely to what I said that day and remembered and got it all for me, it's that much more special. I have no anger or resentment or anything like that. It was love, not lying.
  • PhearlessPhreaks
    PhearlessPhreaks Posts: 890 Member
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    To me, the notion of Santa Claus as a necessary part of childhood is to place Santa as a religious figure.

    Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?

    St. Nicholas, whose feast day is December 6, had a penchant for secret gift giving, and as a result became the model for Santa Claus.

    I am aware of his origins. But Santa Claus is not a religious figure in any religion I am aware of.

    OK, but that's not what you asked. You asked what religious person does santa *represent*. He represents St. Nicholas. Asking who he represents is different from asking in what religion he is a religious figure.

    ETA: we're on the same page in this discussion, just so you know! :flowerforyou:
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    This thread reminds me of the time my brother shot a deer, showed it to all the neighborhood kids, and explained that he had finally killed Bambi. Some people enjoy mystery and some people enjoy sucking the life out of the party. They both have their fun . . .

    Mystery? To me, telling kids that you killed Bambi is cruel, not mysterious.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    Erm...Santa as a religious figure?? And what religious personage is he supposed to represent in your opinion?

    I haven't figured that out yet. I am still trying to figure out why people are so adamant that kids shouldn't be told the truth when they ask about Santa. Their lack of logic and their willingness to embrace fiction so tightly reminds me of religious folks.
  • BenjaminMFP88
    BenjaminMFP88 Posts: 660 Member
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    I never wanted to tell my daughter the santa lie until my extended started talking to her about it and I saw how excited she got. There's something "magical" about it to a child, and I've since changed my potition. I'm ok with my little girl believing in Santa if it brings her this much joy and excitment. I know one day when she learns the truth she will be crushed, and that in and of itself will be a good learning experience.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    ^^Nicely said.

    Also, Einstein didn't recommend lots of fairy tales for children for nothing. They foster the imagination and wonder of the universe. If he hadn't had any of that, I can't imagine he would have been able to imagine the solutions to physical problems the way he did.
    You can't even begin to understand such abstract concepts as those you find in advanced physics and astronomy without first developing a deep understanding that we really don't know the whole of reality. Believing in imaginary things is necessary to do what Einstein did.

    Fairy tales of all kinds are still read frequently at our house. We love fiction, especially if it includes fairies, wizards, magic, etc. The difference is, we acknowledge it as good fiction, a place where we can take our minds for a time to escape reality. Our favorite when the kids were small was the Harry Potter series.

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