Is chivalry really dead? :(

In societies where chivalry is not practiced, women are treated as property, as lesser, because it is animal nature (and humans are animals, after all) for the strong to prey on the weak. Women are abused, held back, put down. It's so bad in some areas to this day, that a women's genitalia is mutilated to prevent her from enjoying sex and potentially cheating on her husband, who owns her and her body in that way. It is this way because men are physically stronger and have more clout in that society.

This is very emotive, like much of the strange "pro-chivarly" stuff in this thread. We're using the term "chivalrous" to mean "kind" or "gallant" or "compassionate" or "considerate" or any other number of things. With chivalry we protect our honor with duels. Seriously, duels?

Who here is pro-duel??

"Oh, well that's not what I mean when I talk about chivalry, I'm actually talking about gallantry but I'm calling it chivalry!"

If we're to pick words and give them our own definitions and defend to the death the definitions, then it's a silly discussion, isn't it?

I am pro-duel.

Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?

Good question, maybe because I'm a guy and not about to put another man on a pedestal. In actuality "pedestal" is probably the wrong word as it implies they're infallible or better. Neither of which is true. A better word might be acknowledgement, and yes it is acknowledgement in a gender specific role. You may not see the point in it. I enjoy the differences between men and women, I enjoy acknowledging women in a respectful way and I like to help those around me. Those are some of my reason for doing what I do.

And why do only women deserve your protection?

It certainly isn't only women that I would help or deserve it but we are talking specifically about women. I would do the same for anyone I thought needed help or protecting.

I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome

Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?

Good question, maybe because I'm a guy and not about to put another man on a pedestal. In actuality "pedestal" is probably the wrong word as it implies they're infallible or better. Neither of which is true. A better word might be acknowledgement, and yes it is acknowledgement in a gender specific role. You may not see the point in it. I enjoy the differences between men and women, I enjoy acknowledging women in a respectful way and I like to help those around me. Those are some of my reason for doing what I do.

And why do only women deserve your protection?

It certainly isn't only women that I would help or deserve it but we are talking specifically about women. I would do the same for anyone I thought needed help or protecting.

The whole point I was addressing/attacking (whether or not you choose to call it that) are the gender specific aspects of what people refer to as chivalry. In your eyes, does it say something negative about someone if the way they act toward strangers is in no way gender specific, even if it is overall common courtesy? Does it say he lacks "chivalry" because he doesn't go that extra mile beyond his already good social behavior just for women? THAT is my problem with "chivalry." The prospect that women are somehow more deserving than fellow men. Why can't we all just treat each other equally? That's how I see it, anyway. There is nothing I would do for a woman I did not personally know that I would not also do for a man I do not personally know. What does that say about me, based on your theories?

I guess I fail to see the conflict between chivalry and equality.

Chivalry is a way of treating people...

Equality is allowing people an equal opportunity for achievement.

Men who hold back chivalry in the name of equality do so out of holding a grudge, or because they don't like showing respect to women in the first place.

But that's just my opinion.

THIS.

I guess I fail to see the conflict between chivalry and equality.

Chivalry is a way of treating people...

Equality is allowing people an equal opportunity for achievement.

Men who hold back chivalry in the name of equality do so out of holding a grudge, or because they don't like showing respect to women in the first place.

But that's just my opinion.

I like you.

I like you too.

It's not, however, the appreciation of chivalry is dying a horrible death.

So much this

and this. sadly.

Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?

Good question, maybe because I'm a guy and not about to put another man on a pedestal. In actuality "pedestal" is probably the wrong word as it implies they're infallible or better. Neither of which is true. A better word might be acknowledgement, and yes it is acknowledgement in a gender specific role. You may not see the point in it. I enjoy the differences between men and women, I enjoy acknowledging women in a respectful way and I like to help those around me. Those are some of my reason for doing what I do.

And why do only women deserve your protection?

It certainly isn't only women that I would help or deserve it but we are talking specifically about women. I would do the same for anyone I thought needed help or protecting.

I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome

I was raised with it. I just questioned it, is all. The person I am has very little to do with how my parents *tried* to raise me and it bothers me that people talk about it's how you were "raised." It has simply always been my nature to question the logic behind things, even the things my parents tried to teach me, and even as a child. And if I could not see logic behind it, I didn't go along with it. Regardless of traditions, regardless of societal standards, it has always been my nature to seek logic in things before I adhere to them. And that included what my parents tried to teach me. What I'm curious about is why there aren't others who question these things as well.

For the record, I am this way with all traditions. If I see no logic behind it, no justification that goes beyond "well, it's just what people do" then I don't do it. No logic, no understanding.

I'd be fine if chivalry were dead; I prefer being treated like a competent, equal human being worthy of respect rather than having men see my gender first and treating me politely based only on that.

This.

If you're asking me if I need help with my bag because you see me struggling, great. If you ask the man next to me the same thing, even better. If you ignore the man struggling and ask me even though I'm obviously not struggling, you're sexist. Even if your intentions are good. Gender shouldn't matter for these things, and as such, chivalry should be dead.

Chivalry has its roots in an extremely paternalistic society and really should be out-dated by now.

What shouldn't be outdated? Treating people well regardless of gender. The golden rule and all that.

I'd be fine if chivalry were dead; I prefer being treated like a competent, equal human being worthy of respect rather than having men see my gender first and treating me politely based only on that.

This.

If you're asking me if I need help with my bag because you see me struggling, great. If you ask the man next to me the same thing, even better. If you ignore the man struggling and ask me even though I'm obviously not struggling, you're sexist. Even if your intentions are good. Gender shouldn't matter for these things, and as such, chivalry should be dead.

Chivalry has its roots in an extremely paternalistic society and really should be out-dated by now.

What shouldn't be outdated? Treating people well regardless of gender. The golden rule and all that.

I am noticing a trend, those of us who say chivalry should be dead and is sexist seem to be saying all people should be treated like this, regardless of sex. Those for it seem to me calling us bad men. I cannot say I am impressed.

Perhaps more people need to realize that "chivalry" is not just about how a man treats a woman. Chivalry is, basically, the entire code of knighthood - strength, honor, valour, courtesy, justice, a willingness to assist the weak, generosity in victory, and piety.

Nothing wrong, really, with any of that. And I think that anybody can be chivalrous... and *anybody* (female or male) can be treated with chivalry.

I hope "chivalry" isn't dead... or dying... or even ill. But sadly, with everything I see each day, I'm afraid it is.