Is chivalry really dead? :(
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Perhaps more people need to realize that "chivalry" is not just about how a man treats a woman. Chivalry is, basically, the entire code of knighthood - strength, honor, valour, courtesy, justice, a willingness to assist the weak, generosity in victory, and piety.
Nothing wrong, really, with any of that. And I think that anybody can be chivalrous... and *anybody* (female or male) can be treated with chivalry.
I hope "chivalry" isn't dead... or dying... or even ill. But sadly, with everything I see each day, I'm afraid it is.
Please don't use the whole "knights" example. There was so much hypocrisy in knighthood when that was written it isn't even funny. Cheating on your wife is adultery. But raping the wife of a man you kill in battle? Not adultery, spoils of victory. Let's not forget knighthood was basically bought. Your idea of the whole "knighthood" thing is a romanticized fantasy. Sorry to say.0 -
Behave decently and protect those more vulnerable than yourself - regardless of station, class nor sex. Just what is your problem with this concept?
If I have my arms full of parcels I am quite happy to have a woman open a door for me - why? I'd even welcome it.
- and at 64 I might even accept the offer of a seat on a crowded bus0 -
Perhaps more people need to realize that "chivalry" is not just about how a man treats a woman. Chivalry is, basically, the entire code of knighthood - strength, honor, valour, courtesy, justice, a willingness to assist the weak, generosity in victory, and piety.
Perhaps more people need to realize that arbitrary definitions that suit their personal taste are not the only definitions that exist for a word.0 -
*Edited because I posted to soon and wrong*
I would love to be respected as a woman., I am a woman, and I'm proud of my womanliness. So I want men to respect that.
Speaking for myself only, I would love to be respected as a woman. I am a woman, and I'm proud of my womanliness, and I want people to respect that. .
Then I would disappoint you, because I don't respect people for their gender, or anything else they have no control over. I respect them for their choices, and their actions. Things they consciously choose, as opposed to what the genetic lottery chose for them.0 -
I am sooo gonna get some back lash on this but I don't really care. It is my opinion. Not saying it is fact or should be everyone's opinion but it is what i believe to be true as a Christian woman. I believe a woman's place is in the home. I believe she should be taking care of the home and raising the children while the man works. I believe that things spiraled downward and children got out of hand when the mother's left to home to work. I don't believe a woman is equal to a man. I don't believe a woman can do anything a man can do nor do I believe they should be in a man's position. There were far less problems with society when women knew their place and did their job. Sorry if this offends any of these women on a power trip out there. I don't mean be let your man mistreat you but don't complain about Chivalry being dead when when it was the women that wanted to be treated equal to men. You all just ruined it for the ones that know our place as women.0
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Behave decently and protect those more vulnerable than yourself - regardless of station, class nor sex. Just what is your problem with this concept?
If I have my arms full of parcels I am quite happy to have a woman open a door for me - why? I'd even welcome it.
- and at 64 I might even accept the offer of a seat on a crowded bus
That is the way it should be. And that's not chivalry. It's common courtesy.0 -
The whole point I was addressing/attacking (whether or not you choose to call it that) are the gender specific aspects of what people refer to as chivalry. In your eyes, does it say something negative about someone if the way they act toward strangers is in no way gender specific, even if it is overall common courtesy? Does it say he lacks "chivalry" because he doesn't go that extra mile beyond his already good social behavior just for women? THAT is my problem with "chivalry." The prospect that women are somehow more deserving than fellow men. Why can't we all just treat each other equally? That's how I see it, anyway. There is nothing I would do for a woman I did not personally know that I would not also do for a man I do not personally know. What does that say about me, based on your theories?
To me it says your probably a good man getting to hung up on the definition of equality. My wife and I are equals, but that does not mean we are equal in all things. I am far physically stronger than she is and better in math, however she has far better organizational skills and her memory is far better than mine. Clearly all of those things are important and her contribution is no less than mine to our home. But we are not the same and gender plays a part in that and I see no reason not to celebrate those differences.0 -
I'd be fine if chivalry were dead; I prefer being treated like a competent, equal human being worthy of respect rather than having men see my gender first and treating me politely based only on that.
What is so wrong with a man treating a lady a little gentler and kinder than another man? Like it or not men and women ARE different. I don't see a problem with men offering help carrying something, holding a door, or being in general a bit protective of a lady, JUST because she's a lady. I think it's sweet and perfectly acceptable.0 -
Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?And why do only women deserve your protection?
I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome
I was raised with it. I just questioned it, is all. The person I am has very little to do with how my parents *tried* to raise me and it bothers me that people talk about it's how you were "raised." It has simply always been my nature to question the logic behind things, even the things my parents tried to teach me, and even as a child. And if I could not see logic behind it, I didn't go along with it. Regardless of traditions, regardless of societal standards, it has always been my nature to seek logic in things before I adhere to them. And that included what my parents tried to teach me. What I'm curious about is why there aren't others who question these things as well.
For the record, I am this way with all traditions. If I see no logic behind it, no justification that goes beyond "well, it's just what people do" then I don't do it. No logic, no understanding.
That would make you undateable for me.
Just being honest.
See? It IS a good test.0 -
Just pushing this along towards the roll so it drops of my posts list. Nothing to see here. Move along.0
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Just pushing this along towards the roll so it drops of my posts list. Nothing to see here. Move along.
helping you.0 -
LMAO!!!0
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The whole point I was addressing/attacking (whether or not you choose to call it that) are the gender specific aspects of what people refer to as chivalry. In your eyes, does it say something negative about someone if the way they act toward strangers is in no way gender specific, even if it is overall common courtesy? Does it say he lacks "chivalry" because he doesn't go that extra mile beyond his already good social behavior just for women? THAT is my problem with "chivalry." The prospect that women are somehow more deserving than fellow men. Why can't we all just treat each other equally? That's how I see it, anyway. There is nothing I would do for a woman I did not personally know that I would not also do for a man I do not personally know. What does that say about me, based on your theories?
To me it says your probably a good man getting to hung up on the definition of equality. My wife and I are equals, but that does not mean we are equal in all things. I am far physically stronger than she is and better in math, however she has far better organizational skills and her memory is far better than mine. Clearly all of those things are important and her contribution is no less than mine to our home. But we are not the same and gender plays a part in that and I see no reason not to celebrate those differences.
How is that "celebrating" differences? Forgive me but I tend to take words at their literal meanings and I don't see how doing things for a woman that you wouldn't do for other men constitutes a celebration. Also, different does not mean better. But doing things for them you wouldn't do for others does say "better."0 -
Chivalry is benevolent sexism as academics refer to it. Some women feel entitled to this treatment from men, and some men are too myopic to see the big picture.
The benevolent sexism seems to extend to places such as family court, criminal courts and gender sentence disparities, and even the male only selective service system in the United States.
Chivalrous practitioners seem to look at things in a dichotomous way such as infantalizing women and denying their agency while overemphasizing men's responsibility and agency (attribution error).0 -
seem to whom?0
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Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?And why do only women deserve your protection?
I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome
I was raised with it. I just questioned it, is all. The person I am has very little to do with how my parents *tried* to raise me and it bothers me that people talk about it's how you were "raised." It has simply always been my nature to question the logic behind things, even the things my parents tried to teach me, and even as a child. And if I could not see logic behind it, I didn't go along with it. Regardless of traditions, regardless of societal standards, it has always been my nature to seek logic in things before I adhere to them. And that included what my parents tried to teach me. What I'm curious about is why there aren't others who question these things as well.
For the record, I am this way with all traditions. If I see no logic behind it, no justification that goes beyond "well, it's just what people do" then I don't do it. No logic, no understanding.
That would make you undateable for me.
Just being honest.
See? It IS a good test.
Test for what? And questioning things for logic is undateable? Okay, if that's your thing, that's cool, but it doesn't matter to me whether or not it makes me undateable.0 -
Behave decently and protect those more vulnerable than yourself - regardless of station, class nor sex. Just what is your problem with this concept?
If I have my arms full of parcels I am quite happy to have a woman open a door for me - why? I'd even welcome it.
- and at 64 I might even accept the offer of a seat on a crowded bus
That is the way it should be. And that's not chivalry. It's common courtesy.
That's all chivalry ever was - only nowadays you don't need a horse0 -
Chivalry is benevolent sexism as academics refer to it. Some women feel entitled to this treatment from men, and some men are too myopic to see the big picture.
The benevolent sexism seems to extend to places such as family court, criminal courts and gender sentence disparities, and even the male only selective service system in the United States.
Chivalrous practitioners seem to look at things in a dichotomous way such as infantalizing women and denying their agency while overemphasizing men's responsibility and agency (attribution error).
can you put this through Google Translate for me, please - I'd love to see it in English0 -
Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?And why do only women deserve your protection?
I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome
I was raised with it. I just questioned it, is all. The person I am has very little to do with how my parents *tried* to raise me and it bothers me that people talk about it's how you were "raised." It has simply always been my nature to question the logic behind things, even the things my parents tried to teach me, and even as a child. And if I could not see logic behind it, I didn't go along with it. Regardless of traditions, regardless of societal standards, it has always been my nature to seek logic in things before I adhere to them. And that included what my parents tried to teach me. What I'm curious about is why there aren't others who question these things as well.
For the record, I am this way with all traditions. If I see no logic behind it, no justification that goes beyond "well, it's just what people do" then I don't do it. No logic, no understanding.
That would make you undateable for me.
Just being honest.
See? It IS a good test.
Test for what? And questioning things for logic is undateable? Okay, if that's your thing, that's cool, but it doesn't matter to me whether or not it makes me undateable.
right. and that's okay. I wasn't saying it to be unkind to you. I was being perfectly honest.
While I do think questioning "authority" isn't a bad thing, it can be taken too far. This is one case (IMO)
What I meant is that it is useful as a test for compatibility.0 -
I am sooo gonna get some back lash on this but I don't really care. It is my opinion. Not saying it is fact or should be everyone's opinion but it is what i believe to be true as a Christian woman. I believe a woman's place is in the home. I believe she should be taking care of the home and raising the children while the man works. I believe that things spiraled downward and children got out of hand when the mother's left to home to work. I don't believe a woman is equal to a man. I don't believe a woman can do anything a man can do nor do I believe they should be in a man's position. There were far less problems with society when women knew their place and did their job. Sorry if this offends any of these women on a power trip out there. I don't mean be let your man mistreat you but don't complain about Chivalry being dead when when it was the women that wanted to be treated equal to men. You all just ruined it for the ones that know our place as women.
dafuq?0
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