Is chivalry really dead? :(

Perhaps more people need to realize that "chivalry" is not just about how a man treats a woman. Chivalry is, basically, the entire code of knighthood - strength, honor, valour, courtesy, justice, a willingness to assist the weak, generosity in victory, and piety.

Nothing wrong, really, with any of that. And I think that anybody can be chivalrous... and *anybody* (female or male) can be treated with chivalry.

I hope "chivalry" isn't dead... or dying... or even ill. But sadly, with everything I see each day, I'm afraid it is.

Please don't use the whole "knights" example. There was so much hypocrisy in knighthood when that was written it isn't even funny. Cheating on your wife is adultery. But raping the wife of a man you kill in battle? Not adultery, spoils of victory. Let's not forget knighthood was basically bought. Your idea of the whole "knighthood" thing is a romanticized fantasy. Sorry to say.

Perhaps more people need to realize that "chivalry" is not just about how a man treats a woman. Chivalry is, basically, the entire code of knighthood - strength, honor, valour, courtesy, justice, a willingness to assist the weak, generosity in victory, and piety.

Perhaps more people need to realize that arbitrary definitions that suit their personal taste are not the only definitions that exist for a word.

I am sooo gonna get some back lash on this but I don't really care. It is my opinion. Not saying it is fact or should be everyone's opinion but it is what i believe to be true as a Christian woman. I believe a woman's place is in the home. I believe she should be taking care of the home and raising the children while the man works. I believe that things spiraled downward and children got out of hand when the mother's left to home to work. I don't believe a woman is equal to a man. I don't believe a woman can do anything a man can do nor do I believe they should be in a man's position. There were far less problems with society when women knew their place and did their job. Sorry if this offends any of these women on a power trip out there. I don't mean be let your man mistreat you but don't complain about Chivalry being dead when when it was the women that wanted to be treated equal to men. You all just ruined it for the ones that know our place as women.

The whole point I was addressing/attacking (whether or not you choose to call it that) are the gender specific aspects of what people refer to as chivalry. In your eyes, does it say something negative about someone if the way they act toward strangers is in no way gender specific, even if it is overall common courtesy? Does it say he lacks "chivalry" because he doesn't go that extra mile beyond his already good social behavior just for women? THAT is my problem with "chivalry." The prospect that women are somehow more deserving than fellow men. Why can't we all just treat each other equally? That's how I see it, anyway. There is nothing I would do for a woman I did not personally know that I would not also do for a man I do not personally know. What does that say about me, based on your theories?

To me it says your probably a good man getting to hung up on the definition of equality. My wife and I are equals, but that does not mean we are equal in all things. I am far physically stronger than she is and better in math, however she has far better organizational skills and her memory is far better than mine. Clearly all of those things are important and her contribution is no less than mine to our home. But we are not the same and gender plays a part in that and I see no reason not to celebrate those differences.

Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?

Good question, maybe because I'm a guy and not about to put another man on a pedestal. In actuality "pedestal" is probably the wrong word as it implies they're infallible or better. Neither of which is true. A better word might be acknowledgement, and yes it is acknowledgement in a gender specific role. You may not see the point in it. I enjoy the differences between men and women, I enjoy acknowledging women in a respectful way and I like to help those around me. Those are some of my reason for doing what I do.

And why do only women deserve your protection?

It certainly isn't only women that I would help or deserve it but we are talking specifically about women. I would do the same for anyone I thought needed help or protecting.

I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome

I was raised with it. I just questioned it, is all. The person I am has very little to do with how my parents *tried* to raise me and it bothers me that people talk about it's how you were "raised." It has simply always been my nature to question the logic behind things, even the things my parents tried to teach me, and even as a child. And if I could not see logic behind it, I didn't go along with it. Regardless of traditions, regardless of societal standards, it has always been my nature to seek logic in things before I adhere to them. And that included what my parents tried to teach me. What I'm curious about is why there aren't others who question these things as well.

For the record, I am this way with all traditions. If I see no logic behind it, no justification that goes beyond "well, it's just what people do" then I don't do it. No logic, no understanding.

That would make you undateable for me.
Just being honest.

See? It IS a good test.

Just pushing this along towards the roll so it drops of my posts list. Nothing to see here. Move along.

helping you.

The whole point I was addressing/attacking (whether or not you choose to call it that) are the gender specific aspects of what people refer to as chivalry. In your eyes, does it say something negative about someone if the way they act toward strangers is in no way gender specific, even if it is overall common courtesy? Does it say he lacks "chivalry" because he doesn't go that extra mile beyond his already good social behavior just for women? THAT is my problem with "chivalry." The prospect that women are somehow more deserving than fellow men. Why can't we all just treat each other equally? That's how I see it, anyway. There is nothing I would do for a woman I did not personally know that I would not also do for a man I do not personally know. What does that say about me, based on your theories?

To me it says your probably a good man getting to hung up on the definition of equality. My wife and I are equals, but that does not mean we are equal in all things. I am far physically stronger than she is and better in math, however she has far better organizational skills and her memory is far better than mine. Clearly all of those things are important and her contribution is no less than mine to our home. But we are not the same and gender plays a part in that and I see no reason not to celebrate those differences.

How is that "celebrating" differences? Forgive me but I tend to take words at their literal meanings and I don't see how doing things for a woman that you wouldn't do for other men constitutes a celebration. Also, different does not mean better. But doing things for them you wouldn't do for others does say "better."

seem to whom?

Behave decently and protect those more vulnerable than yourself - regardless of station, class nor sex. Just what is your problem with this concept?

If I have my arms full of parcels I am quite happy to have a woman open a door for me - why? I'd even welcome it.

- and at 64 I might even accept the offer of a seat on a crowded bus

That is the way it should be. And that's not chivalry. It's common courtesy.

That's all chivalry ever was - only nowadays you don't need a horse

Why do only women get to get put on a pedestal?

Good question, maybe because I'm a guy and not about to put another man on a pedestal. In actuality "pedestal" is probably the wrong word as it implies they're infallible or better. Neither of which is true. A better word might be acknowledgement, and yes it is acknowledgement in a gender specific role. You may not see the point in it. I enjoy the differences between men and women, I enjoy acknowledging women in a respectful way and I like to help those around me. Those are some of my reason for doing what I do.

And why do only women deserve your protection?

It certainly isn't only women that I would help or deserve it but we are talking specifically about women. I would do the same for anyone I thought needed help or protecting.

I guess Chivalry is something that not all men were raised with and they just can't get it, no matter how hard you try to explain. My heart is warmed by how many of the men in this thread *do* get it, though. I can tell by reading your posts that you are one of the men that gets it. Many thanks to you, keep being awesome

I was raised with it. I just questioned it, is all. The person I am has very little to do with how my parents *tried* to raise me and it bothers me that people talk about it's how you were "raised." It has simply always been my nature to question the logic behind things, even the things my parents tried to teach me, and even as a child. And if I could not see logic behind it, I didn't go along with it. Regardless of traditions, regardless of societal standards, it has always been my nature to seek logic in things before I adhere to them. And that included what my parents tried to teach me. What I'm curious about is why there aren't others who question these things as well.

For the record, I am this way with all traditions. If I see no logic behind it, no justification that goes beyond "well, it's just what people do" then I don't do it. No logic, no understanding.

That would make you undateable for me.
Just being honest.

See? It IS a good test.

Test for what? And questioning things for logic is undateable? Okay, if that's your thing, that's cool, but it doesn't matter to me whether or not it makes me undateable.

right. and that's okay. I wasn't saying it to be unkind to you. I was being perfectly honest.

While I do think questioning "authority" isn't a bad thing, it can be taken too far. This is one case (IMO)

What I meant is that it is useful as a test for compatibility.