Need serious help with SUGAR!!!!

Actually, now, looking at the list of courses, none of them seem to be about research in any capacity. Maybe epidemiology, sort of, but not really. None of them have anything to do with clinical research, publication, interpretation of results, etc. They're all simply didactic courses about learning facts, not learning anything about the actual process of science.

Rather than critiquing someone's course load, would it be too much to ask to actually quote the passages from the researchers that you think support your position? For what it's worth, I don't see people misrepresenting what the students that performed the study in question said, at least in their press release. For example, from the professor supervising the research:

"This correlated well with our behavioral results and lends support to the hypothesis that high-fat/ high sugar foods can be thought of as addictive," said Schroeder.

While I agree the fox news article isn't the best source to cite to, you aren't citing to any source whatsoever. You're simply attacking the person you disagree with and their coursework.

The research in question supports the claim that mice appear to enjoy eating food (Oreos in this case) about as much as they enjoy being picked up and injected with heroin from a needle. That's about it. It does not suggest anything about whether "sugar is addictive" or whatever, it doesn't establish or even suggest that sugar is similar to heroin, and it absolutely is not "proof" of anything at all. The very idea that a single small study, particularly in lab mice, can constitute "proof" of anything is absurd.

Also, you will note that the commentary from the researcher is from a press release. I can promise that language was not included in the journal publication because the journal would have rejected it.

OH WAIT the "research" does not appear to have been published at all. The only thing we have is a press release. No wonder Fox News didn't link to the actual publication. There isn't one.

At the end of the day, does it really matter? If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine, you're going to need to suck it up and break the addiction in order to get away from it. The same with any other addictive substance, whether it's a physical or mental addiction. Even if you are somehow addicted to junk food (which I don't necessarily buy, but assuming you are), you need to put the oreo down if it's preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit. Whether you call putting the oreo down breaking an addiction, gaining some willpower or eating in moderation, it's all the same in the end.

Honestly this is a pointless argument over semantics, which is abundantly clear by people referencing the DSM. :yawn:

You are confused between the differences in addiction and what is considered normal brain activity. Everyone's brain "lights up" (lol) when they experience pleasure. You have made it clear that you have never been addicted to heroin. (or anything else) If you had ever suffered an addiction, then you would never compare it binge-eating disorder, etc.

Interesting.

If I were addicted to something else in my life, would I be able to do a comparison?

Do you have access to an EEG?

No, do you? Do most people?

why?

You wanted to compare brain activity, no? That's how ya do it.

You are confused between the differences in addiction and what is considered normal brain activity. Everyone's brain "lights up" (lol) when they experience pleasure. You have made it clear that you have never been addicted to heroin. (or anything else) If you had ever suffered an addiction, then you would never compare it binge-eating disorder, etc.

Interesting.

If I were addicted to something else in my life, would I be able to do a comparison?

Only one way to find out! JK. :laugh:

<snip> Here I know, you take some photos of how my brain lights up when you put some cookies in front of me and lets see what the brain of a heroin addict looks like in the same scenario lol.

You are confused between the differences in addiction and what is considered normal brain activity. Everyone's brain "lights up" (lol) when they experience pleasure. You have made it clear that you have never been addicted to heroin. (or anything else) If you had ever suffered an addiction, then you would never compare it binge-eating disorder, etc.

QFT. Unless you’ve spent weeks in bed, sick from withdrawals from going cold turkey from a substance that actually causes physical symptoms when you stop consuming it, please DO NOT compare sugar with drugs. It's insulting to those of us that have overcome such addictions. Thx.

Is this one not valid as well?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2235907/

I do not claim to have any scientific background, just curious...

It matters a great deal, actually. When talking about health interventions, therapies, etc., whether or not something is an addiction (or whether a substance produces a dependence) is a big deal.

I can understand how it doesn't seem important to a layperson, but this is Stuff That Matters (tm).

Given that it's a discussion on MFP forums involving research by some students on rats, I'd say we disagree that this is important or Stuff that Matters (tm).

As for whether sugar is "addicting" and whether that's important, I've always been of the school of thought that you're accountable for yourself and blaming your behavior on an addiction (especially a mental addiction) is no excuse. Therapy, interventions... I dunno, I personally have a hard time thinking highly of that area of science. There are some legit issues, but for the most part I tend to think most people just need to suck it up and own their problems. You can have a "sugar intervention" or put someone in therapy for their sugar eating disorder, but they honestly won't make a change until they want to change. I know people that have been through countless hours of pointless therapy for mental illness and addiction with no change, while I've seen others kick physical addictions like smoking on their own, seemingly overnight.

At the end of the day, even if sugar is in some ways addictive for some people, the solution at the end of the day is still for those people to find a way to deal with it that achieves a caloric deficit.

A few things:

1: You're not alone. While it's not necessarily an addition, our body responds to excess amounts of sugar in the same way that it response to drugs (such as cocaine). There are so many people out there who struggle with this, including me at one point.

2. Know your poison. Read up on how sugar affects your metabolism/body/lifestyle. If you understand how something affects you, you're more likely to avoid things that are bad and stick with things that are good. If you want to lose weight, and you want to be healthier, set a goal and stick to it. Keep that goal in mind, along with the information you learn, to stay on track. [I recommend Salt, Sugar, Fat, by Michael Moss]

3. Don't necessarily quit cold turkey. By that I mean, don't go from all sugar to no sugar in a day. Some things you should quit immediately--soda being one, if that's your thing--because the sugar is least of your worries there. If you put sugar in your coffee or tea, switch to Stevia or monkfruit instead, they're natural sugar alternatives. Then try to eliminate one sugar-thing from your diet each week. If you have a cupcake in the afternoon, switch it out for a piece of fruit and some cheese or almonds. You still get the sweetness from the fruit, but the protein from the cheese or almonds will keep you satisfied longer, so you won't necessarily run for the candy on your way out the door.

Let me know if this helps. I would totally be willing to help you more, if you'd like. I love researching nutrition and exercise.

At the end of the day, does it really matter? If you were stupid enough to get addicted to heroine, you're going to need to suck it up and break the addiction in order to get away from it. The same with any other addictive substance, whether it's a physical or mental addiction. Even if you are somehow addicted to junk food (which I don't necessarily buy, but assuming you are), you need to put the oreo down if it's preventing you from reaching a caloric deficit. Whether you call putting the oreo down breaking an addiction, gaining some willpower or eating in moderation, it's all the same in the end.

Honestly this is a pointless argument over semantics, which is abundantly clear by people referencing the DSM. :yawn:

The problem is that people can use it as an excuse.

"I have an addiction."
"I was diagnosed with obesity."

It takes away personal responsibility.

<snip> Here I know, you take some photos of how my brain lights up when you put some cookies in front of me and lets see what the brain of a heroin addict looks like in the same scenario lol.

You are confused between the differences in addiction and what is considered normal brain activity. Everyone's brain "lights up" (lol) when they experience pleasure. You have made it clear that you have never been addicted to heroin. (or anything else) If you had ever suffered an addiction, then you would never compare it binge-eating disorder, etc.

http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S22/88/56G31/index.xml?section=topstories

QFT. Unless you’ve spent weeks in bed, sick from withdrawals from going cold turkey from a substance that actually causes physical symptoms when you stop consuming it, please DO NOT compare sugar with drugs. It's insulting to those of us that have overcome such addictions. Thx.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12055324

Repeated, excessive intake of sugar created a state in which an opioid antagonist caused behavioral and neurochemical signs of opioid withdrawal. The indices of anxiety and DA/ACh imbalance were qualitatively similar to withdrawal from morphine or nicotine, suggesting that the rats had become sugar-dependent.

Did you look at the methods? The rats were starved, then given an enormous amount of sugar, then injected with a drug used to fight opioid withdrawal.

There are 6 pages to this thread and I didn't read anything but the OP-so forgive me if this is already in there. I am also a major sugar fiend and have to just stay away from it (a little is never enough-it's a snowball effect for me). I have found the sugar free jello (5-10 cals depending on which flavor you get) satisfy my sugar cravings and don't do any damage to my daily calorie limit. Good luck!

The problem is that people can use it as an excuse.

"I have an addiction."
"I was diagnosed with obesity."

It takes away personal responsibility.

Perhaps that's where we see things differently. I don't view someone saying "I have an addiction" as diminishing their personal responsibility whatsoever.

Well frankly you don't seem to have a good handle on addiction or psychology in general, so your opinion of the implications of whether it's an addiction don't mean much. You even said something about people being "stupid enough to get addicted to drugs." That was painful to read, dude.

Just being honest. I have yet to meet someone who was physically forced into smoking cigarettes or sticking a needle in their arm for the first few times. If you're stupid enough to go that route, knowing what we know about those substances, then I have little sympathy for the recovery process not being fun. If you mess up and get addicted, fine, but own your mistakes and deal with it. Whether you call it an addiction, a habit, a compulsion or whatever other term you want to use, the answer is the same: if you want to get past it, you need to suck it up and deal with it.

As for not grasping psychology, I think it's more that my opinion on modern psychology starting to show itself, but no need to derail the thread any more than it already is.

and walk happily away either. I have to eat it until they are done.

So you basically binge on it. This might sound weird...but that's a great thing. Why? Because unless it's progressed into a full blown disorder (which it seems is not the case) there are some readily accessible techniques which you can use to keep it in check (using your pre frontal cortex - your conscious brain - to control the unconscious habits ingrained in your more primitive mid brain.)

I would suggest checking out books by Kathryn Hansen, Gillian Riley or Josie Spinardi for techniques you can use to get this under control once and for all.