Paleo = dying young?

I don't disagree with you. More activity means you can eat more, and you can probably get away with the more carbs specifically. But, if people are more sedentary (which I agree is the case in the US), then how much you eat becomes all that more important because you don't have the margin created by the increase in exercise. Those same sedentary people that go Paleo and lowish carb will not be as obese.

FIFY

Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?

Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?

Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.

There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.

So you think diet does matter at all? That all calories are created equal for everyone? That it's a strict calorie deficit issue? That what people eat literally doesn't matter?

Not sure what you're getting at. Weight gain versus weight loss is a matter of calorie surplus or deficit only, yes.

What people eat to get those calories literally doesn't matter at all for weight loss or gain. What food you get those calories from has a significant impact on body composition, hormone levels, satiety, etc.

Well, you're just wrong. For some, it may not matter -- they're those lucky people that have a naturally awesome metabolism that can handle all the various permutation. But for others, it most certainly matters -- those with insulin resistance, food sensitivities/allergies, metabolic issues, thyroid issues, etc. Their bodies have very different or more extreme physiological responses to such things so what their calories are made of make a HUGE difference. And I suspect, and this is purely my speculation, that a lot of folks who are obese in this country have such underlying issues. And that's why purely counting calories is not effective for them.

I wouldn't mind Paleo so much if you didn't have to spend twice as much on food or have to go slaughter the animals yourself because you can't find it in the grocery store... Or that they like to base their belief on the idea that agriculture is what is making us fat... depsite the fact that society has used and depended on agriculture for 10,000 years and only the last 30 is how long we have been battling obesity.

Coinciding with PE and recess disappearing from schools, parents not allowing their children to just go outside and play all day, the Internet and more time spent in front of video games.

But it must be the wheat. ;-)

I think those are contributors too, without a doubt. But we've never seen such a high rate of insulin resistance, metabolic syndrome and metabolic disorders as in the past. PE, recess and the internet aren't causing that in adults. Things like trans fat, high fructose corn syrup, etc. are also contributors without a doubt. But, I think wheat and grains are as well as there has been a notable increase in their consumption in the last 100 years or so as well.

Interesting, without a doubt? So why does paleo preach eating higher trans fat cuts of beef ie grassfed beef?

I believe it's because there is a difference between the naturally occurring transfat (CLA specifically) you see in grass-fed beef as opposed to those created industrially by hydrogenating vegetable oils. Small chemical structure differences, but have huge different effects on the body. Plus, the overall benefit of the omega 3-6 ratio you see in grass-fed as opposed to grain-fed beef.

http://chriskresser.com/can-some-trans-fats-be-healthy

Ah but you just said without a doubt trans fat to be a contributor.

Then let me be more specific. Industrially created non-natural transfat is no doubt a contributor. I thought that was implicit in the statement, but since you're splitting hairs, I'll be more explicit.

Cavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.

Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lol

No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?

And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.

His point was paleo is based on a logical fallacy.

Well, that's where I disagree then. Is it one hundred percent perfect? No. But there is definitely logic behind its nutritional basis and the physiological responses in the body, and is particularly important for people with certain issues (whether it was designed for those specific purposes or not).

Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?

Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?

Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.

There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.

So you think diet does matter at all? That all calories are created equal for everyone? That it's a strict calorie deficit issue? That what people eat literally doesn't matter?

Not sure what you're getting at. Weight gain versus weight loss is a matter of calorie surplus or deficit only, yes.

What people eat to get those calories literally doesn't matter at all for weight loss or gain. What food you get those calories from has a significant impact on body composition, hormone levels, satiety, etc.

Well, you're just wrong. For some, it may not matter -- they're those lucky people that have a naturally awesome metabolism that can handle all the various permutation. But for others, it most certainly matters -- those with insulin resistance, food sensitivities/allergies, metabolic issues, thyroid issues, etc. Their bodies have very different or more extreme physiological responses to such things so what their calories are made of make a HUGE difference. And I suspect, and this is purely my speculation, that a lot of folks who are obese in this country have such underlying issues. And that's why purely counting calories is not effective for them.

lol, maybe you missed this part. What food you get those calories from has a significant impact on body composition, hormone levels, satiety, etc.

No, I actually agree with that part. But it also affects weight, fat storage and muscle development issues. Calories in and calories out are not the same for everyone because some people's bodies respond differently.

Cavemen also drank untreated water, and hunted for their food daily, sucked marrow out of bones, and scavenged when they had to......................................................I'm betting no paleo person on here does that.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition

Wow. And you're supposed to be a personal/fitness trainer. This may be one of the stupidest comments I've seen in a while. Has absolutely NOTHING to do with the nutritional plan WHATSOEVER. Way to be bring asinine to the party.

Ninerbuff doesn't need to prove anything to nayone and so far your contributions are meh. lol

No one needs to prove anything. I'm just asking for logical statements. Disagree all you want. But saying something totally nonsensical is stupid. Tomatoes are red. True, but who cares?

And I'm sure Ninerbuff is a big boy and can fight his own battles if he chooses to do so.

His point was paleo is based on a logical fallacy.

Well, that's where I disagree then. Is it one hundred percent perfect? No. But there is definitely logic behind its nutritional basis and the physiological responses in the body, and is particularly important for people with certain issues (whether it was designed for those specific purposes or not).

Believer= cherry pick data, disregard what doesn't align with my thinking and make grand generalizations that might cover said *kitten*. Ok, gotcha.

No, I actually agree with that part. But it also affects weight, fat storage and muscle development issues. Calories in and calories out are not the same for everyone because some people's bodies respond differently.

OK, so show me real evidence that two different diets, of identical calorie content, have clinically significant different results in terms of weight for people without diagnosed medical disorders.

I have already said that muscle development and fat storage can be affected by macro intake. But not weight, to any significant degree, in people without disorders.

Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?

Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?

Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.

There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.

Ironically when people ask me how I lost so much weight, unless they are truly my friend and someone I care about I reply "Eat Less, Move More". I'm lying. I know I'm lying. I don't have time to talk to eveyone who asks about why I look so good in comparison to a couple years ago.

I really don't want to divulge how using MFP paired with Primal diet has cured cronic symptoms, given me more energy and the fat loss is icing on the cake of not being sick. Because they'll start trash talking calorie restriction and Paleo and telling me how much I inspired them in the same sentence.

So I don't. I give a white lie, that is mostly harmless, that I know isn't going to help anyone achieve a damn thing. "Eat less, Move more." My LIE. My LIE I tell people I hardly know or care about.

Think about that.

Can't interpret what you're saying here. Are you saying you lost weight without doing "eat less move more"? From your diary you're counting calories so you seem to be doing the "eat less" part. I agree the "move more" isn't strictly necessary but it helps.

What's the lie?

Also, not sure how you can even claim you're doing Primal. I picked a random day in your diary and see almost 1000 calories of cake from Walmart. The previous day has Reese's Peanut Butter Cups and more cake from Walmart (twice). I'm no Primal expert but I'm pretty sure cake, cake icing, and PB Cups aren't it.

paleo is probably healthier than most americans diets that consist of fast food. any diet the promotes plenty of vegetables and fruits probably isn't that bad for you. And no I personally don't eat paleo but I tried the diet and when I was on it I was losing weight and felt great.

Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?

Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?

Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.

There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.

Ironically when people ask me how I lost so much weight, unless they are truly my friend and someone I care about I reply "Eat Less, Move More". I'm lying. I know I'm lying. I don't have time to talk to eveyone who asks about why I look so good in comparison to a couple years ago.

I really don't want to divulge how using MFP paired with Primal diet has cured cronic symptoms, given me more energy and the fat loss is icing on the cake of not being sick. Because they'll start trash talking calorie restriction and Paleo and telling me how much I inspired them in the same sentence.

So I don't. I give a white lie, that is mostly harmless, that I know isn't going to help anyone achieve a damn thing. "Eat less, Move more." My LIE. My LIE I tell people I hardly know or care about.

Think about that.

It's really my way of saying "I spent years figuring out what works for me. I'm not going to give you my secrets in a few sentences so you can look as good as me! Nope, the glory is mine and the journey is yours! I worked my *kitten* off to figure it out myself, so if you want it bad enough, you, grasshopper, will also find your way. Now I'm a very busy woman who needs to depart. Best of Luck to you."

"Eat less, Move more" It doesn't even mean anything. It's jargon. It's not going to help anyone.

(Edited for spelling.)

It's really my way of saying "I spent years figuringin out what works for me. I'm not going to give you my secrets in a few sentences so you can look as good as me! Nope, the glory is mine and the journey is yours! I worked my *kitten* off to figure it out myself, so if you want it bad enough, you, grasshopper, will also find your way. Now I'm a very busy woman who needs to depart. Best of Luck to you."

"Eat less, Move more" It doesn't even mean anything. It's jargon. It's not going to help anyone.

Well, yes. It's a tagline. A slogan. The real story is "eat fewer calories than you burn and you will lose weight" but that doesn't have that nice ring to it.

Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?

Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?

Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.

There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.

Ironically when people ask me how I lost so much weight, unless they are truly my friend and someone I care about I reply "Eat Less, Move More". I'm lying. I know I'm lying. I don't have time to talk to eveyone who asks about why I look so good in comparison to a couple years ago.

I really don't want to divulge how using MFP paired with Primal diet has cured cronic symptoms, given me more energy and the fat loss is icing on the cake of not being sick. Because they'll start trash talking calorie restriction and Paleo and telling me how much I inspired them in the same sentence.

So I don't. I give a white lie, that is mostly harmless, that I know isn't going to help anyone achieve a damn thing. "Eat less, Move more." My LIE. My LIE I tell people I hardly know or care about.

Think about that.

This has been a very similar experience I've had and for many others I know that went Primal. I didn't have nearly the horror stories some people did with the chronic illness issues, but eating less and moving more wasn't working for me AT ALL. I was eating at 700+ daily deficit just to maintain my weight. And the doctors just said -- eat less and move more.

Switching to Primal helped immeasurably with fatigue, which was probably my biggest issue, but also in other smaller ways like being more focused and sleeping through the night (totally new for me!). And my cholesterol levels became awesome. After a year of that and still not losing much weight, my primary doctor was amazed at my new blood tests and asked what I'd done -- gone Primal. I was still really struggling to lose weight (even after training and running a half marathon) and ended up going to a specialist -- and lo and behold, I had both Hashi's and insulin resistance (which he says likely has gotten considerably better on Primal and low-ish carb which I'd been doing for the past year).

I didn't have crazy symptoms or extreme weight -- probably only 30-40 lbs. But I knew something was wrong but was told for YEARS, nope, nothing. I suspect my story is not that different from many out there. They too likely don't have huge issues, but are far from optimal, and have some underlying issue that eat less and move more isn't getting it done.

Also, contributors -- though I think the industrial revolution in the mid 1800s, the level of sedentary jobs hasn't increased at the same rate as obesity in this country. And a lot of those nutrient shallow, high calorie foods are filled with sugar substitutes and grain-based carbs. Coincidence?

Do you have data for that claim? What about when you factor in rises in TV viewing, video gaming, and computer use time?

Bottom line is that obesity has risen because people move less and eat more. People move less because jobs are more sedentary and indoor, sit-on-your-butt leisure activities such as HDTV and internet have increased. People eat more because calories are more delicious, more convenient, and cheaper now than they have ever been throughout human history.

There's no mystery here. It's not toxins or demon nutrients that are making people fat. It's sitting on your butt more and eating more. The solution therefore is, as always, to move more and eat less.

Ironically when people ask me how I lost so much weight, unless they are truly my friend and someone I care about I reply "Eat Less, Move More". I'm lying. I know I'm lying. I don't have time to talk to eveyone who asks about why I look so good in comparison to a couple years ago.

I really don't want to divulge how using MFP paired with Primal diet has cured cronic symptoms, given me more energy and the fat loss is icing on the cake of not being sick. Because they'll start trash talking calorie restriction and Paleo and telling me how much I inspired them in the same sentence.

So I don't. I give a white lie, that is mostly harmless, that I know isn't going to help anyone achieve a damn thing. "Eat less, Move more." My LIE. My LIE I tell people I hardly know or care about.

Think about that.

This has been a very similar experience I've had and for many others I know that went Primal. I didn't have nearly the horror stories some people did with the chronic illness issues, but eating less and moving more wasn't working for me AT ALL. I was eating at 700+ daily deficit just to maintain my weight. And the doctors just said -- eat less and move more.

Switching to Primal helped immeasurably with fatigue, which was probably my biggest issue, but also in other smaller ways like being more focused and sleeping through the night (totally new for me!). And my cholesterol levels became awesome. After a year of that and still not losing much weight, my primary doctor was amazed at my new blood tests and asked what I'd done -- gone Primal. I was still really struggling to lose weight (even after training and running a half marathon) and ended up going to a specialist -- and lo and behold, I had both Hashi's and insulin resistance (which he says likely has gotten considerably better on Primal and low-ish carb which I'd been doing for the past year).

I didn't have crazy symptoms or extreme weight -- probably only 30-40 lbs. But I knew something was wrong but was told for YEARS, nope, nothing. I suspect my story is not that different from many out there. They too likely don't have huge issues, but are far from optimal, and have some underlying issue that eat less and move more isn't getting it done.

It would be extremely instructive if you could open your diary and then point to the time period you were eating 700+ calorie daily deficits without losing weight so we could compare to the time period you were eating Primal and losing weight.

I see you've been here since 2009 so I assume you were logging on MFP pre-Primal.

So could you show us this data, please?