Paleo = dying young?

A coworker planned a hiking trip for a work club that included some paleo dieters who wanted special foods. I told her she should have brought them some spears and loin cloths and let them really be paleo.

Primal Bull ****?

Anyway, did anyone answer me why I should eat Primal/Paleo because of Hashimoto's? I tried combing through the thread, but it's gotten massive.

Many thanks.

I did -- I'll see if I can go back and find the post.

Here was my response (on page 9 I think):

I think it's because a lot of people with auto-immune disorders have reactions to certain things -- gluten, casein, lactose and lechtins probably being the most notable -- which trigger the auto-immune reaction. Gluten is in wheat and other grains (and other items too), lactose and casein are in dairy products (less in full fat versions) and lechtins are in a bunch of things like lentils, peanuts, etc. The idea is that those with auto-immune issues are triggered by these things, whether it's Hashi's, Celiac, etc. More extreme cases like celiac can tolerate very little or no gluten. I don't think it's as extreme for people with Hashi's generally. So, if you don't eat these things, or reduce the amount you eat them, you don't end up with as many flare ups, running from hypo to hyper.

Some can tolerate the dairy and others can't -- it seems to be fine for me personally, but I don't really drink milk. The full-fat stuff like cheese, butter and cream is fine by me. Others with Hashi's notice issues with even that so they cut out all dairy too (which I think is inline with strict Paleo observers).

Also, if you have Hashi's you may also be insulin resistance (same if you have PCOS). It's something that they tend to see hand-in-hand, though there is a debate and which causes which. For that, Primal if it's lowish carb, also helps, especially if the carbs are low glycemic (i.e. not grains and certain fruits and veggies).

I can tell you personally, I feel much better on Primal/Paleo and have far less fatigue in general and even when I hit the swings, they're not as dramatic, which is HUGE for me. I also notice when I eat stuff with a lot of gluten in it -- have bread or a slice of pizza, my lymph glands swell on my neck, which is likely an indication of an auto-immune response and I get hit with the fatigue shortly thereafter (more extreme than just a sugar crash, though that is probably part of it too).

Not everyone with Hashi's feels better on Primal. But I do know a lot of people with Hashi's that do feel better on it. When I was eventually diagnosed with it, it was what my specialist recommended, but I'd already been eating that way for a while.

AsaThorsWoman, I went back and reviewed your diary back to 1/1 as instructed. It appears that you started on the new year with a more or less Primal diet. WIthin a few weeks it started turning from Primal into a more... omnivorous sort of calorie-counting diet. By the standards of Primal, the entirety of February has been an abject disaster, starting with February 1 where over 2/3 of your daily intake came from cake, pizza, ice cream bars, and cookies. It's been off and on since the 1300 calories of beer on January 30 but more off than on.

This is a common trajectory for New Years' Resolutions. I'm encouraged, however, that you are still logging even though your diet is decidedly non-Primal.

Look at it this way. Look Monday thru Friday. The only non-primal things listed are my 900 freakin' calorie peice of cake Monday and some frozen yogurt Wednesday night.

I guess Saturday and Sunday don't count? Then again there's all this:

Wednesday 2/12:
Alcohol - Peppermint Schnapps, 4 oz 500 32 0 0 0 0
Anheuser-Busch - Budweiser, 36 floz 435 32 0 4 60 0
Taco Bell - Nachos Bell Grande, 308 g 760 85 39 19 1,320 13

Thursday 2/13:
Long John Silver's - Battered Fish, 1 piece 230 14 15 12 580 0
Long John Silver's - (Tartar Sauce), 1 oz (28g) 90 5 7 0 230 0
Wendy's - Jr Bacon Cheeseburger (From Wendys Website), 1 burger 390 26 22 20 870 2
Walmart Bakery - Chocolate Cupcake W/ Frosting, 1 cupcake 240 35 12 1 140 0

Friday 2/14:
Hershey's Kisses - Milk Chocolate (Per Piece), 2 Kiss 46 6 3 1 8 0
Butterfingers - Valentine Hearts Candy 5 Pieces, 1 pieces 40 6 2 0 8 0
Hershey's - Reese's Peanut Butter Filled Hearts, 1 pieces 42 5 3 1 15 0
Mcdonald's - Mcdouble (No Bun, No Ketchup), 2 Sandwich 460 6 34 36 1,060 2
Market Pantry Target - Mini Cupcake -- White Cake W/ White Frosting (Serving Size: 3 Cupcakes), 3 cupcakes 330 43 17 2 200 0
Mcdonald's - Mcdouble (No Bun, No Ketchup), 2 Sandwich 460 6 34 36 1,060 2
Mcdonald's - Chicken Mcnuggets (10 Piece) W/ Sweet 'n Sour Sauce, 10 Nuggets 5.7 oz (190 g) 520 42 30 22 1,050 2
Butterfinger - Valentine Heart, 1 piece 160 23 8 2 45 0
Pearson's - King Size Mint Patties, 0.5 PATTIE 85 18 2 1 45 0
Ghirardelli Squares - Milk Chocolate With Carmel Filling, 0 oz (1 square) 0 0 0 0 0 0
Elmer's Chocolate Candy - Assorted Chocolates, 3 pieces (34g) 140 25 5 1 20 1
Barefoot Wine Merlot - Wine, 5 ozs 120 5 0 1 2 0

Monday 2/17:
the Bakery at Walmart - White Cake With Buttercreme Icing, 0.18585000000000002 cake 80g 915 130 41 6 413 0


I'm not attacking you with this information. But, seriously.... your diet doesn't even approach paleo. Or primal.

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

He did say you did well in January, or did you miss that part?

is yogurt and pork rinds paleo/primal?

I don't recall caveman having access to Yoplait...

Yes, yogurt is very natural and great for your gut and pork rinds are pork skin and salt.

Both primal.

who knew...cavemen ate yogurt...you learn something new everday...

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

Trust me I don't believe a word that guy says!!!

Why not? He's given excellent advice a number of times in numerous threads, and calls people out on their BS.

I can't speak to his advice in this thread. But, from what I've seen, he's intellectually dishonest. He misrepresents and plays with semantic and touts them as being fact. Hard to have a legit discussion with someone that is intellectually dishonest.

Well I can speak to his advice in this thread (and others) and while he may be a bit...um, dogged about his pursuits I've never seen any manner of dishonesty. He does seem to appreciate if people practice what they preach and he may go after semantics and small details like a dog after a bone (NTTAWWT) but it's because semantics and small details matter in discussions like this.

You can't expect a person to not nitpick at every detail when the small nuances are what mark the difference between a valid claim and something akin to nonsense.

Yesterday you wanted it the other way round, Sorry my subtle humour again (us damn Brits)

Compared to this diary, I suspect that *you* are closer to "paleo/primal".

This is not even close to my diary. Pull the report from 1/1/14-current if you want to see it.

He pulled everyone of my cheats to mis-represent me.

Trust me I don't believe a word that guy says!!!

Why not? He's given excellent advice a number of times in numerous threads, and calls people out on their BS.

I can't speak to his advice in this thread. But, from what I've seen, he's intellectually dishonest. He misrepresents and plays with semantic and touts them as being fact. Hard to have a legit discussion with someone that is intellectually dishonest.

Well I can speak to his advice in this thread (and others) and while he may be a bit...um, dogged about his pursuits I've never seen any manner of dishonesty. He does seem to appreciate if people practice what they preach and he may go after semantics and small details like a dog after a bone (NTTAWWT) but it's because semantics and small details matter in discussions like this.

You can't expect a person to not nitpick at every detail when the small nuances are what mark the difference between a valid claim and something akin to nonsense.

Well, that's where I disagree with you. Sometimes the details are important and sometime they're not. The intellectually honest decipher the difference and don't pick on the useless details or make misrepresentations. I've been giving him the benefit of the doubt that he knows the difference and is intentionally being deceptive or dishonest. He could just be not that bright and not be able to tell the difference, but that's not the read I have on him. Because when he is called to the carpet on his truth twisting, he lets it go and stops defending the semantics and bs.

Maybe if we just replaced the word "Paleo" with "Natural/Unprocessed Food" diet it would keep people from attacking the concept?

But then no one would follow it. You can't market a restrictive diet without a catchy name.

You're eating a restrictive diet! Everyone on this site it! Just because we're not doing it your way, why does that upset you so much.

Maybe it's hug time????

Don't follow. My diet has no restrictions on which foods I may eat.

No but you're restricted on how much of your amazing range of food you can eat so therefore it's a restrictive diet, any diet with boundaries are!

Don't try to be logical. He's not a fan of the logic.

I think you may be the one that is not a fan of the logic. Seriously, let me spell it out for ya. He is NOT against people eating healthily. He is however not a fan of people claiming things without providing facts. He chooses to not restrict things from his diet but still eats at a deficit and he has lost a bunch of weight. He is not saying that any of ANYONES ways of doing things are wrong, he is simply stating that as long as you eat at a deficit you will lose weight. He is absolutely correct unless of course you have a MEDICALLY DIAGNOSED CONDITION but I believe we talked about this before. Please go back and READ everything before replying. It will make things much easier on everyone. Thanks.

That's the whole point though. There are plenty of people that won't lose at a deficit and yet don't have a medically diagnosed condition YET -- just like was my problem for YEARS. It was only after pushing doctors for YEARS and showing them things like my food diary and eventually trying out a few specialists, that I finally got the tests I needed and the underlying medical condition was found/diagnosed. And there may be other conditions that we don't really know about yet which are causing these issues as well. But strangely, things like the Paleo diet help them -- you'll find tons of people that will testify to that, and I suspect they have undiagnosed medical issues, whether certain vitamin deficiencies (like D, iodine or magnesium), hormone imbalances (like insulin resistance, thyroid issues, adrenal issues), food allergies/sensitivities/intolerances (Celiac, gluten sensitivities, etc.) or autoimmune disease.

I could have gone another 10-15 years fighting the whole calories in and calories out thing and being endless frustrated. And 4 doctors would have said everything was fine. But, it wasn't. And the Primal/Paleo diet was literally the only thing that helped me prior to figuring out the underlying cause/issue -- which I only learned about later.

No, if someone is in a deficit they will lose weight, that's the way the universe works. What your talking about are metabolic dysfunctions that effect how the body burns it's fuel. People with these metabolic dysfunctions need to seek out medical intervention to help plan a course of action that helps them lose weight. PCOS, IR, MetS all respond well to lower carb, in the absenxe of exercise and weight loss....do all three and surprisingly enough they begin to lose weight with similar calorie consumption. Not magic.

Okay, if a deficit always works. How come you see so many people with those disease that eat at a deficit and don't lose, or eat at what should maintain results in gaining?

Oh, why? Because they're not metabolizing things as they should be. They're storing fat, when they should have the energy in the system for activity -- which is also why you see such people with awful cases of fatigue and sleeping issues. Some tend to eat more than they should because it's not metabolized correctly/efficiently. So stave off the fatigue, they have to eat more, which results in weight gain and obesity. You really should educate yourself more on metabolism before spouting off such things.

Yes, those people with "diseases" as you say should see a physician, but the majority of people AGAIN that say they eat at a deficit and don't lose weight do not have any disease.