Is calorie-counting different from dieting?

Well you can calorie count in a surplus or at maintaince, but I don't know of any 'diets' that translate to those sooo...yes.

If so how?

I've been lurking these forums for a few weeks and I constantly see people telling others, "don't diet! make it a lifestyle change!" But you're all counting your calories? Not to be judgmental but I don't see how it's different from a diet. Is this just a stepping stone to a healthier lifestyle? Or do you plan to count calories forever?

Why are you lurking around forums on a food tracking website asking people questions?
You're not counting calories, so you're here for other purposes.
People give you answers that you don't seem to be satisfied with.
So, cut to the chase... What do you want?

Since you skipped over my question before, I'm bumping it in case you didn't see it.

OP also didn't say whether or not we should trust our body when it tells us that picture I posted is moving.

Because quite frankly that was an incredibly stupid analogy & I felt no need to address it.

It's a logical application of your premise that our perception should tell us everything we need to know about the world around us and how to interact with it.

I agree that it is incredibly stupid.

If so how?

I've been lurking these forums for a few weeks and I constantly see people telling others, "don't diet! make it a lifestyle change!" But you're all counting your calories? Not to be judgmental but I don't see how it's different from a diet. Is this just a stepping stone to a healthier lifestyle? Or do you plan to count calories forever?

Yep! I changed my entire life from top to bottom and counting calories is a part of that change. A diet is something you start and finish but changing how you live your life goes on forever.

For me calorie counting is teaching me about portion size and the calories in certain foods (eg pasta - my idea of a portion had about double the calories in it than I thought). That's allowing me to make healthier choices. I don't think I'll count calories forever but it keeps me focussed whilst I'm getting to target. I do think there's certain foods that I'll weigh probably forever as its easy to eat a lot of extra calories without trying (complex carbs and high fat food in my case). Calorie counting is part of my lifestyle change but to eat the right things more often and to retrain my eating habits.

When you used to eat overly large portions, didn't you feel really full? Wouldn't that alone be enough to tell you to maybe cut down on your portions?

Unfortunately, at least in the US, large portions are the standard. Many people are already "trained" to eat larger portions and more than they need, which accounts for a lot of the obesity problem. Then there are people (myself included) that do not have normal satiation response.

Oftentimes, eating an actually appropriate portion does not fill the modern US person up. It can even leave them feeling hungry. We monitor calories and portions to re-order our way of looking at food and developing our abilities to judge food by sight. If you don't need this, that's great, but many of us do.

Dieting as a blanket term does essentially mean you are handling your food in a specific way, but most of the time, the term is used to indicate a specific behavioral response to food geared towards losing weight. Many structured "diets" are unhealthy and unbalanced, and that is why people on this site tend to warn people against it.

All of the reasons you've given for not being able to trust your body are precisely related to people not trusting their bodies in the first place. Of course your metabolism & hunger signals would be screwed after dieting and eating disorders. But they aren't screwed permanently. You can fix and restore those.

Then what are you asking? If we had all had perfect diets of nutritious food and listened to our bodies without ever having emotional responses to food, we wouldn't be on here. But that's not what happened, so we're here, and we're trying to get back to "normal," which can be a very slow process. Studies estimate an obese person person who gets down to a normal weight will take FIVE YEARS to have normal hunger cues again, even if they don't crash diet or do anything dangerous. Why are you so against people using this tool to be healthy?

But counting calories isn't how you get back to "normal". Do you see people who have normal relationships with food counting calories to maintain their "normalcy"? Absolutely not. Your goals are pure, but you're going about them the entirely wrong way.

I'm against it because it compounds the problem. I've seen so many people go on diets, counting calories or whatever have you, and gain it back eventually, feeling worse about themselves afterwards, many being my friends, EVEN if they were eating a "healthy" amount of calories. That has happened to many people on this site as well just from reading through the motivation forum. There are studies that show that over 95% of dieters, no matter what technique they use, gain back the weight they lost eventually.

Those people blame themselves for their failures when in reality they're just going about it the entirely wrong way, and dieting is only making their issues worse. Having to force yourself to eat a certain amount a day isn't freedom, and it certainly isn't addressing the issues behind why you overeat in the first place. The fact that so many people now believe that externally controlling your diet is the only way to not be fat, is a big reason why so many people are, fat.

There are a HUGE number of people on here who track their calories and have perfectly healthy relationships with food. It helps them achieve their fitness goals by ensuring they're getting adequate calories with the right balance of macros. It helps them be conscious of the micronutrients they need and the sources they get them from. It helps them be healthy during pregnancy and get back in shape after pregnancy. Etc, etc, etc. And while I don't have a healthy relationship with food, tracking my calories is the closest I've ever been to developing one. So how about coming off your high horse and accepting that while this isn't for everyone, it works very well for a lot of us?

All of the reasons you've given for not being able to trust your body are precisely related to people not trusting their bodies in the first place. Of course your metabolism & hunger signals would be screwed after dieting and eating disorders. But they aren't screwed permanently. You can fix and restore those.

Then what are you asking? If we had all had perfect diets of nutritious food and listened to our bodies without ever having emotional responses to food, we wouldn't be on here. But that's not what happened, so we're here, and we're trying to get back to "normal," which can be a very slow process. Studies estimate an obese person person who gets down to a normal weight will take FIVE YEARS to have normal hunger cues again, even if they don't crash diet or do anything dangerous. Why are you so against people using this tool to be healthy?

But counting calories isn't how you get back to "normal". Do you see people who have normal relationships with food counting calories to maintain their "normalcy"? Absolutely not. Your goals are pure, but you're going about them the entirely wrong way.

I'm against it because it compounds the problem. I've seen so many people go on diets, counting calories or whatever have you, and gain it back eventually, feeling worse about themselves afterwards, many being my friends, EVEN if they were eating a "healthy" amount of calories. That has happened to many people on this site as well just from reading through the motivation forum. There are studies that show that over 95% of dieters, no matter what technique they use, gain back the weight they lost eventually.

Those people blame themselves for their failures when in reality they're just going about it the entirely wrong way, and dieting is only making their issues worse. Having to force yourself to eat a certain amount a day isn't freedom, and it certainly isn't addressing the issues behind why you overeat in the first place. The fact that so many people now believe that externally controlling your diet is the only way to not be fat, is a big reason why so many people are, fat.

I've kept over 100 pounds off for seven plus years by changing my life. I count calories 6 days a week and take Saturdays off from counting and that means a cheat meal or two as well. In my experience those that gain the weight back are people who think there is a start and finish to losing weight. The truth is once you start there is no finish because then your job is to maintain that loss. I agree with you as I've seen the studies that 95% gain it back but for people like myself, we know not only is it possible to lose the weight but also possible to keep it off. I am part of the Weight Loss Registry that studies people like myself, my habits, how many times I weigh in and practically every aspect of my life. The goal is to figure out how it is that myself keep the weight off long term. Counting calories for me is like breathing, I just do it normally. I have a good relationship with food but seeing those numbers at the end of the day is my way keeping myself honest. I encourage people to count their calories because I know it is a good sure fire way to gain control over what you are eating. Counting calories does not mean you have a bad relationship with food, that's just silly. I've gained a vast amount of knowledge about losing weight and keeping it off over the past 10 years, since I started this journey, and my success is proof positive that keeping the weight off long term by counting calories (as well as other variables) works!

I really don't understand the hostility I'm getting here. Are you telling me then, that everyone who lives in an abundance of food will become fat if they don't count and track their calories? Everyone who enjoys food will become fat if they don't impose limitations that will force themselves to eat less?

If so, then why isn't everyone in every developed country fat? Why do many people remain thin while still in abundance of food, WITHOUT counting calories? Surely they aren't special snowflakes. We are all humans. We all have the same anatomy. Just because you've forgotten what it feels like to eat when you're hungry & stop when you're full (which every human knew how to do when they were babies) doesn't mean those signals don't exist. And just because you've replaced that natural mechanism with counting calories doesn't mean that original mechanism is invalid. It just means you've lost touch with how to use it.

You mentioned something about people 50 years ago--body cues for hunger etc which ties in nicely here as well.

Calories in/out, hunger cues, developed nations (or not) what separates those who are trim vs those who are carrying extra pounds is based entirely on much that person MOVES. Fifty years ago: no Internet, 13 channels on tv you walked or rode you bike to school which was 2 kms away, plus mom made dinners more often than not---European nations are countries where people walk, hike, bike here and there. At the end of the day, it's not how much people eat today in North America...it's how little we actually "move"

Those who move most, tend to weigh less....IMO

I disagree with this too, because I know many people who are sedentary and aren't fat. They just eat less to compensate. Think about it.

If you take a person who works out 3 hours every day, and you take a person who doesn't work out at all, the person who works out will get HUNGRIER. Their body will require more energy to fuel their exercise, so they will eat more. The person who doesn't work out will not get hungry as often because their body does not require that extra energy. So they will eat less.

This is, of course, only if both people are "normal eaters" & know how to eat when they are hungry and stop when they are no longer hungry, which is the skill that most overweight people are missing.

It takes 2 hours of walking to burn off one glazed donut. Exercise isn't the primary issue here.

Of course it is.

You assume too much. I didn't say a person had to work out for three hours every day. A normal amount of activity (take the stairs, Park at the far end of the parking lot at the mall, don't watch tv for two hours every night--go do something instead-hell standing even burns calories) will burn off a "donut"--to use you example

I was using the 3 hours of exercise as an exaggerated example to make my point clear.

Burning off an extra donut a day by being moderately more active does not balance out the dozens of donuts and other things consumed when people are emotionally eating, or eating just because it's there, or eating to distract themselves, or eating out of boredom, etc etc.

For sure...and your point is valid. There is no argument that we live in a society of excess.

I still argue that if we "did things" we wouldn't eat things--as much. If I go on a two hour hike in the mountains, or bike with my kids I'm not only burning calories doing something that is amazing, I'm not feasting on doritos (yum) on my couch.

Where your argument becomes valid is the choice I make after I hike/bike/walk/run. Do I have the doritos? Or choose an apple and a handful of nuts.

I suppose those who are familiar with the caloric count of their choices will opt for fruit and protein (ergo lifestyle change--see what I did there?). Less aware individuals may grab the doritos. Third option is have a handful of doritos AND an apple--no judging here.

That's true. Being more active makes you more aware of how you feel physically, makes you feel better overall, and gives you endorphins, so someone who is more active would be much less likely to eat in a way that makes them feel like crap, or for emotional reasons.

But I disagree that knowing how many calories are in what you're eating is the only, or even the best, motivation to make better choices. If you pay attention, you can notice how you feel physically after eating an apple, versus after eating a bag of nacho cheese doritos. I've noticed that on days I eat fruit, my digestion is a lot better, my head feels clearer, I'm less tired. On days I eat mostly high-fat/high-sugar, nutrient-lacking foods, I feel foggier all day, less energetic, and even have slight stomach pain & digestive issues. I didn't have to count a single calorie to figure that out.

Funny, when I eat fruit all I notice is that I'm hungry 15 minutes later. High fat food, on the other hand, is very satiating for me (personally).

Wonder why that is.

See, that's where you are wrong. Everyone is born with PHYSICAL hunger indicators. If there were some hereditary "I can't tell when I'm not hungry anymore" gene, then obesity would not be a new thing. The rate of obesity would have been much more consistent throughout history. You would see much more people in the 1800's who were overweight or obese.

Are you saying that some people feel hungry more than others and it takes more food to make them full, and the amount of food it takes to satisfy their fullness is actually more than their body needs so they become overweight? I don't think that's true. I think that in those cases, people are mistaking other sensations for hunger, or aiming to reach much higher level of fullness with each meal than necessary.

Some of the evidence I have that all people are born knowing how to eat when they're hungry & stop when they're full is simply historical. Calorie counting is an extremely new thing, and far before it existed, the majority of the population knew how to maintain their weights without dieting of any sort. How do you think they were able to do that? Even though they exist more readily today, fatty & sugary foods have always existed. People in the 1800's could go to a bakery and get treats if they wanted them. Why is it that now, suddenly, everyone is now "hungrier" than they used to be?

So what caused people to stop understanding their body? Something changed I assume? You sound like you blame some sort of conscious decision for obesity. If I knew the day I chose to stop listening to my body I would make that change.

You might want to think about the physical activity levels of people in the past when less mechanized equipment was available to do the work of human labor. People ate as much or more than they do now but their daily lives were much more active. They didn't have office jobs and didn't drive everywhere.

I can eat until I am full but without activity I won't balance the calorie equation and my body won't burn enough calories to stay in balance. A better working theory is that our bodies have not evolved as fast as our lifestyle and still believes that we need as many calories as we used to.

And you better believe that sometimes that balance goes out of whack due to changes in activity level, changes in hormones (and yes, hormones do control our eating habits and they do get out of whack) or other factors.

But counting calories isn't how you get back to "normal". Do you see people who have normal relationships with food counting calories to maintain their "normalcy"? Absolutely not. Your goals are pure, but you're going about them the entirely wrong way.

I'm against it because it compounds the problem. I've seen so many people go on diets, counting calories or whatever have you, and gain it back eventually, feeling worse about themselves afterwards, many being my friends, EVEN if they were eating a "healthy" amount of calories. That has happened to many people on this site as well just from reading through the motivation forum. There are studies that show that over 95% of dieters, no matter what technique they use, gain back the weight they lost eventually.

Those people blame themselves for their failures when in reality they're just going about it the entirely wrong way, and dieting is only making their issues worse. Having to force yourself to eat a certain amount a day isn't freedom, and it certainly isn't addressing the issues behind why you overeat in the first place. The fact that so many people now believe that externally controlling your diet is the only way to not be fat, is a big reason why so many people are, fat.

Do you know what freedom is? Being able to run and walk, being able to know that I'm not killing myself by being super-obese, not feeling like everyone is looking at me, being able to backpack for days, being able to play with my nieces and nephews. I could go on and on. Counting and restricting my calories so that I have a deficit has given me that. I DO NOT CARE if having to do that makes me "not normal" in that one little way. Seriously, not one little bit.