Paleo Lifestyle Change?

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  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

    The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

    People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.
    Not really, it's takes 1.6g's of protein to be converted to 1g of glucose and if no food whatsoever is consumed then lean mass is required for function. the egg protein did it's job in this scenario. i would have to look at trained people, but I would suspect that the only extra afford would be a higher consumption of protein to help stay in nitrogen balance, but I'm not sure.

    That's how I read the abstract too.

    I'd still be interested in learning more about the long term impact of a carb-free lifestyle.

    My understanding has been that using glycogen from protein builds up toxins that can damage the liver and that the brain requires a level of glycogen that can't be met with fat alone. Sure, in the short-term survival situation we can adapt, but there are long-term effects to excluding one of the three macro-nutrients.

    The brain can run quite optimally on a ketone/glucose mix (I did post a study the other day on another thread - I will see if I can find it).

    If you are active i.e. using above 75% activity, then it is recommended to eat additional carbs, which is why I average about 90 - 100g a day (because of my various activates).
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    I have cut out all grains with the exception of beer for the last five weeks and I think I have had some pretty decent success. My weight has remained stable, but I had to tighten my belt another notch last week. Besides, any nutritional regiment that gives bacon the OK is good with me!

    Yes but looking at your profile pic it looks like you're only getting 50% of your share anyway.:drinker:
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    Not sure how they found that 130 number -- I definitely am interested in learning more about how they calculated that.

    Around 20g/day you limit the need for stripping nitrogen out of muscle tissue.
    Around 50g/day you limit the need for stripping amino acids out of muscle tissue.

    A minimally-acceptable level of exercise (e.g. 2 hours of casual walking around throughout the course of a day) will burn about 60g worth of glycogen, which needs to be replenished.

    50 + 60 -> 110

    That gets you in the ballpark, fine tune for size and other minor details from there.

    And daily your liver can produce more than that through gluconeogenesis, so why do we need to ingest this through dietary carbs?

    Already answered. Your body cannot metabolize either fat or protein quickly enough to support gluconeogenesis through ingesting food alone. Which means that if you aren't eating enough carbs to support your activity level, your body is going to cannabilize it's own protein stores - namely, muscle mass.

    There seems to be a general lack of understanding of the rates the various biochemical processes inside the human body run at. Without that understanding, all kinds of really bad dietary decisions can be made.

    Also your muscles and liver can store Glycogen as well (not just burn for fuel or in the case of your liver produce it). The human body is amazing and it has a great genetic memory and if you condition it to perform a certain way, guess what it responds.

    Genetic memory isn't the right term for what you mean.

    You're probably right, terminology isn't my major.
  • leighann881
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    The thread is long gone... might as well discuss...
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    The thread is long gone... might as well discuss...

    I'm all out of .gifs.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,992 Member
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    When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

    The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

    People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.
    Not really, it's takes 1.6g's of protein to be converted to 1g of glucose and if no food whatsoever is consumed then lean mass is required for function. the egg protein did it's job in this scenario. i would have to look at trained people, but I would suspect that the only extra afford would be a higher consumption of protein to help stay in nitrogen balance, but I'm not sure.

    That's how I read the abstract too.

    I'd still be interested in learning more about the long term impact of a carb-free lifestyle.

    My understanding has been that using glycogen from protein builds up toxins that can damage the liver and that the brain requires a level of glycogen that can't be met with fat alone. Sure, in the short-term survival situation we can adapt, but there are long-term effects to excluding one of the three macro-nutrients.
    I'm not sure about toxins and liver damage, I've not heard of that, but there may be concerns. Also being in ketosis doesn't mean no carbs.....some trained athletes can consume 100g of carbs and still be in ketosis, most people could probably consume 50+ and still be in ketosis. Maybe look at populations that might live this way and look at their health, the Inuit for example, they seemed to thrive pretty well for the majority of the year considering they've been around 30-40,000 yrs. Anyway gluconeogenesis happens 24 hours a day regardless, so I would imagine the body doesn't see this as minor phenomena that could cause damage. But I really don't know, just a guess.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    When enough protein is consumed, gluconeogenesis can supply all the glucose the body requires while still maintaining lean body mass.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7351177

    The subjects were both sedentary and obese.

    People in that condition can eat not only zero carb, but zero protein and zero fat and still be fine.
    Not really, it's takes 1.6g's of protein to be converted to 1g of glucose and if no food whatsoever is consumed then lean mass is required for function. the egg protein did it's job in this scenario. i would have to look at trained people, but I would suspect that the only extra afford would be a higher consumption of protein to help stay in nitrogen balance, but I'm not sure.

    That's how I read the abstract too.

    I'd still be interested in learning more about the long term impact of a carb-free lifestyle.

    My understanding has been that using glycogen from protein builds up toxins that can damage the liver and that the brain requires a level of glycogen that can't be met with fat alone. Sure, in the short-term survival situation we can adapt, but there are long-term effects to excluding one of the three macro-nutrients.
    I'm not sure about toxins and liver damage, I've not heard of that, but there may be concerns. Also being in ketosis doesn't mean no carbs.....some trained athletes can consume 100g of carbs and still be in ketosis, most people could probably consume 50+ and still be in ketosis. Maybe look at populations that might live this way and look at their health, the Inuit for example, they seemed to thrive pretty well for the majority of the year considering they've been around 30-40,000 yrs. Anyway gluconeogenesis happens 24 hours a day regardless, so I would imagine the body doesn't see this as minor phenomena that could cause damage. But I really don't know, just a guess.

    I get kind of ketonic (meaning I stink of ammonia) after a long run, and even did it a few weeks back after an intense track workout, and I'm pretty sure I'm not completely working through my carbs in that amount of time (especially on the runs where I fueled). I'd like to know more about it.

    Just not enough to sift through all the information and mis-information out there to get an approximate idea of the answer.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I'm not sure about toxins and liver damage, I've not heard of that, but there may be concerns. Also being in ketosis doesn't mean no carbs.....some trained athletes can consume 100g of carbs and still be in ketosis, most people could probably consume 50+ and still be in ketosis. Maybe look at populations that might live this way and look at their health, the Inuit for example, they seemed to thrive pretty well for the majority of the year considering they've been around 30-40,000 yrs. Anyway gluconeogenesis happens 24 hours a day regardless, so I would imagine the body doesn't see this as minor phenomena that could cause damage. But I really don't know, just a guess.

    The Inuit are a good example.
    Because the climate of the Arctic is ill-suited for agriculture and lacks forageable plant matter for much of the year, the traditional Inuit diet is unusually low in carbohydrates and high in fat and animal protein. In the absence of carbohydrates, protein is broken down in the liver through gluconeogenesis and utilized as an energy source. Inuit studied in the 1970s were found to have abnormally large livers, presumably to assist in this process. Their urine volumes were also high, a result of the excess urea produced by gluconeogenesis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet#Nutrition

    It looks like they've physically adapted to a low-carb life. That's kind of fascinating.
  • tennisdude2004
    tennisdude2004 Posts: 5,609 Member
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    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.

    Thanks for posting - a great definition.
  • RockWarrior84
    RockWarrior84 Posts: 839 Member
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    I'm not sure about toxins and liver damage, I've not heard of that, but there may be concerns. Also being in ketosis doesn't mean no carbs.....some trained athletes can consume 100g of carbs and still be in ketosis, most people could probably consume 50+ and still be in ketosis. Maybe look at populations that might live this way and look at their health, the Inuit for example, they seemed to thrive pretty well for the majority of the year considering they've been around 30-40,000 yrs. Anyway gluconeogenesis happens 24 hours a day regardless, so I would imagine the body doesn't see this as minor phenomena that could cause damage. But I really don't know, just a guess.

    The Inuit are a good example.
    Because the climate of the Arctic is ill-suited for agriculture and lacks forageable plant matter for much of the year, the traditional Inuit diet is unusually low in carbohydrates and high in fat and animal protein. In the absence of carbohydrates, protein is broken down in the liver through gluconeogenesis and utilized as an energy source. Inuit studied in the 1970s were found to have abnormally large livers, presumably to assist in this process. Their urine volumes were also high, a result of the excess urea produced by gluconeogenesis.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inuit_diet#Nutrition

    It looks like they've physically adapted to a low-carb life. That's kind of fascinating.

    My comments on the Inuit since i live in their backyard and actually do work in their villages. They stock pile meat and fish underground typically (like a natural meat locker). They also use smoke houses and smoke a lot of their meat and fish to preserve during the winter. They also collect a crap load of berries and freeze them as well. They have used these underground storage for many many years. I have been inside one that was used for 30 years or so.

    Coastal villages eat a lot more whale and seal then fish unless they live on the mouth of a river. They preserve the seal oil from the seal meat and use it like ketchup. They also eat food that ferments as well, Stinky-head is an example. Fish heads are cut up and buries (typically in sand) and let to ferment for a period of time and then dug up and used to make soup.

    Th inuits are very crafty and have learned how to make food last over winters well before power ever made it out to them. They hunt during the winters for polar bears, moose and caribou. Hunter regulations have harmed them significantly for winter sources of food.

    Just wanted to throw out some information.
  • WendyTerry420
    WendyTerry420 Posts: 13,274 Member
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    The thread is long gone... might as well discuss...

    I'm all out of .gifs.

    all_out_of_ideas_dogma.gif
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,992 Member
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    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.
    Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

    Here's the result of that study.
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
    Nutrition / Diet
    Neurology / Neuroscience
    Psychology / Psychiatry
    add your opinion
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    MNT Featured
    Add your rating
    Current ratings for:
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
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    25 ratings
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    11 ratings
    A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

    The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

    Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

    "The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

    "The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

    Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

    Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

    For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

    Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

    During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

    The results showed that:

    Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

    Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

    But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

    This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

    Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.
  • DamePiglet
    DamePiglet Posts: 3,730 Member
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    The thread is long gone... might as well discuss...

    I'm all out of .gifs.

    all_out_of_ideas_dogma.gif

    tumblr_mo6qz1BDoG1r7uxhho1_500.jpg
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.
    Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

    Here's the result of that study.
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
    Nutrition / Diet
    Neurology / Neuroscience
    Psychology / Psychiatry
    add your opinion
    email
    MNT Featured
    Add your rating
    Current ratings for:
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Public / Patient:
    1 2 3 4 5
    25 ratings
    Health Professionals:
    1 2 3 4 5
    11 ratings
    A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

    The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

    Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

    "The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

    "The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

    Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

    Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

    For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

    Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

    During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

    The results showed that:

    Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

    Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

    But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

    This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

    Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.

    But everything I read about ketosis states that as a risk:

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

    What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?

    High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

    - Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
    - High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    - Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.
    - Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
    - Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.
  • cwsreddy
    cwsreddy Posts: 998 Member
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    why the **** did this thread turn into a ketosis debate?

    come the **** on people. jesus.
  • PaleoPath4Lyfe
    PaleoPath4Lyfe Posts: 3,161 Member
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    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.
    Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

    Here's the result of that study.
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
    Nutrition / Diet
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    Psychology / Psychiatry
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    A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

    The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

    Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

    "The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

    "The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

    Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

    Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

    For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

    Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

    During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

    The results showed that:

    Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

    Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

    But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

    This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

    Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.

    But everything I read about ketosis states that as a risk:

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

    What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?

    High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

    - Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
    - High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    - Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.
    - Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
    - Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

    Because you are using WebMD as a credible reference. They are nothing but paid by Corporate sponsorships.
  • lindsey1979
    lindsey1979 Posts: 2,395 Member
    Options
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.
    Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

    Here's the result of that study.
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
    Nutrition / Diet
    Neurology / Neuroscience
    Psychology / Psychiatry
    add your opinion
    email
    MNT Featured
    Add your rating
    Current ratings for:
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Public / Patient:
    1 2 3 4 5
    25 ratings
    Health Professionals:
    1 2 3 4 5
    11 ratings
    A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

    The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

    Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

    "The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

    "The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

    Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

    Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

    For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

    Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

    During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

    The results showed that:

    Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

    Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

    But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

    This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

    Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.

    When I first read that, I was a little surprised that they didn't take into account (or didn't appear to) the shift from moderate/high carb to low/zero carb diets. That shift is usually pretty rough on a lot of people -- some even call it the "low-carb flu" -- until the body shifts in to more efficient ketosis to supply energy needs. But, then I saw she was a professor of PSYCHOLOGY and thought, "well, that's less surprising..." I'm sure her colleagues in the biology and biochemistry departments had a good chuckle at that.
  • neanderthin
    neanderthin Posts: 9,992 Member
    Options
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

    Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

    The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

    However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

    The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

    We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

    Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

    When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

    If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

    Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

    The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.
    Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

    Here's the result of that study.
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
    Nutrition / Diet
    Neurology / Neuroscience
    Psychology / Psychiatry
    add your opinion
    email
    MNT Featured
    Add your rating
    Current ratings for:
    Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
    Public / Patient:
    1 2 3 4 5
    25 ratings
    Health Professionals:
    1 2 3 4 5
    11 ratings
    A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

    The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

    Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

    "The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

    "The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

    Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

    Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

    For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

    Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

    During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

    The results showed that:

    Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

    Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

    But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

    This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

    Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.

    But everything I read about ketosis states that as a risk:

    http://www.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

    What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?

    High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

    - Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
    - High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    - Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.
    - Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
    - Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.
    Yup, just more misinformation basically. WebMD is pretty sketchy even though they have a name that sounds like it shouldn't be.
  • lindsey1979
    lindsey1979 Posts: 2,395 Member
    Options
    http://www.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

    What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?

    High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

    - Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
    - High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
    - Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.
    - Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
    - Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

    Some of that's true. The kidneys and liver in particular have to work harder so for people with issues in either of those organs, they're usually not encouraged to do a low-carb diet (same reason drinking can be more troublesome because it puts more pressure on the liver) unless closely monitored. I think the osteoporosis is sketchy at best and the cancer thing is pretty much true of any diet where you're not getting you're necessary vitamins, minerals, etc. And they know so little about so many types of cancers and their cause, that I doubt that's very helpful. I think the unhealthy metabolic state is total bunk.