Paleo Lifestyle Change?

geez, I leave for a few hours and this thread has been totally derailed…how the hell did we go from…

- OP asking about Paloe and Gerd
- to grand standing and misinterpretation of posts...
- then to game of thrones
- then to low carb
- then to ketosis
- then OP came back …

would someone like to catch me up as to where the hell this thread is now..?

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

I would not be so sure of that...

I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.

Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.

gluconeogenesis. We don't need carbs to survive. The body can create glucose from protein and fat. And as far as I know the inuits survived on a diet that was practically zero carb

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

I would not be so sure of that...

I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.

Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.

gluconeogenesis. We don't need carbs to survive. The body can create glucose from protein and fat. And as far as I know the inuits survived on a diet that was practically zero carb

Again, gluconeogenesis is a stress response by the body to make glucose for the brain at all costs. Brief stress (think training) is a good thing, chronic stress is probably not. I just am not convinced that willingly putting the body in a chronically stressed state is necessarily a good thing.

Sure the inuit survived... they also had no choice.

P.S - There is NO physiological NEED for carbs in the human diet. We don't need them to survive.

I would not be so sure of that...

I am positively, 1000000% sure. We do not need carbs in the human diet. The body can convert everything we need to function just fine and survive on proteins and fats alone.

Carbs are merely a quicker energy source than fat is. But, there is no need for us to eat them at all.

gluconeogenesis. We don't need carbs to survive. The body can create glucose from protein and fat. And as far as I know the inuits survived on a diet that was practically zero carb

Again, gluconeogenesis is a stress response by the body to make glucose for the brain at all costs. Brief stress (think training) is a good thing, chronic stress is probably not. I just am not convinced that willingly putting the body in a chronically stressed state is necessarily a good thing.

Sure the inuit survived... they also had no choice.

Given that one of the side effects is amenorrhea, I'd be inclined to agree with this. Based on the discussion today, yes, you CAN survive for an unknown amount of time without carbs. You probably shouldn't, for a variety of reasons. Like clementines, for one example.

Where have your read the gluconeogenesis is considered a chronic stress condition?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11724664

I don't think gluconeogenesis is a chronic stress state... I am talking about chronically putting yourself in a state of gluconeogenesis.

Where have your read the gluconeogenesis is considered a chronic stress condition?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11724664

I don't think gluconeogenesis is a chronic stress state... I am talking about chronically putting yourself in a state of gluconeogenesis.

No, it's the effect on glucose production and gluconeognesis after administering high doses of cortisol. "Thus cortisol administration in humans increases GP by stimulating gluconeogenesis" Cortisol is a stress hormone which effects glucose production from blunts/diverts energy from low priority processes, like digestion, immune system, decreases Glut4 which is a glucose transporter and at the same time increases glycogen synthesis, basically optimizing the fight or flight response. Cortisol and the fasting were the stressors in this study You're interpreting this data incorrectly imo.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.

Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

Here's the result of that study.

Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
Nutrition / Diet
Neurology / Neuroscience
Psychology / Psychiatry
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Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
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A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

"The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

"The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

The results showed that:

Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.

But everything I read about ketosis states that as a risk:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?

High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

- Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
- High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
- Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.
- Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
- Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/180858.php

Ketosis is a condition in which levels of ketones (ketone bodies) in the blood are elevated. Ketones are formed when glycogen stores in the liver have run out.

The ketones - acetoacetate and β-hydroxybutyrate - are used for energy. Ketones are small carbon fragments that are the fuel created by the breakdown of fat stores. Ketosis is potentially a serious condition if keytone levels go too high.

However, when the body is in ketosis the individual tends to feel less hungry, and will probably eat less than he/she might otherwise do. The body switches from being a carbohydrate-burning organism into a fat-burning one. The fat stores become a primary energy source, and the person loses weight. That is why low-carb diets have become popular, and effective, especially among obese people.

The modern human body in most societies usually metabolizes glucose from carbohydrates for energy purposes, rather than energy from fat. If there is not enough glucose (from carbohydrates) in the bloodstream the body draws on fat stores for fuel, causing the appearance of ketones in the blood. Ketones are produced by the liver from fatty acids.

We need proteins and fats for building and repairing tissue and cells - proteins and fats can also be sources of energy. If necessary, the body can get all its energy from fats and proteins.

Our brain can use glucose or ketones for energy; it cannot generally burn fat for energy. A study carried out at the Psychology Department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts found that women on low- or zero-carb diets performed worse in memory or thinking tests than women whose diets were not low in carbs.

When there are plenty of carbohydrates in the body, it breaks them down into glucose, which is then converted into energy and transported into the cells of our body.

If glucose cannot be broken down, as may be the case if the insulin levels are too low, or if there is a lack of glucose, then the body has to break down stored fat and convert it into energy. Metabolizing fat raises blood ketone levels, leading to ketosis. Ketosis can occur with Type 1 diabetes (not enough insulin), alcoholism, starvation, and with a low-carb, high fat/protein diet.

Ketones consist of acetone, acetoacetate or beta-hydroxybutyrate. Very high ketone levels can be toxic, making the blood more acid, and may damage such organs as the kidneys and liver.

The human body tries to lower acetone (a ketone) levels by breathing it out, causing a sweet and fruity breath. We also reduce keytone levels by expelling them through our urine.

Some misinformation there. The initial stages of low carb is the transition to ketones and the fogginess is normal, which disappears after a few weeks.

Here's the result of that study.

Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
Thursday 11 December 2008 - 11am PST
Nutrition / Diet
Neurology / Neuroscience
Psychology / Psychiatry
add your opinion
email
MNT Featured
Add your rating
Current ratings for:
Low Carb Diet Is Bad For Thinking And Memory
Public / Patient:
1 2 3 4 5
25 ratings
Health Professionals:
1 2 3 4 5
11 ratings
A new study from scientists in the US found that when women went on low or zero-carb diets they performed worse on thinking and memory tests compared to reducing calories without reducing carbohydrates. When they put carbs back into their diet, their thinking and memory skills went back to normal.

The study was the work of researchers from the psychology department of Tufts University in Medford, Massachusetts. It is published in the February 2009 journal Appetite and is already available to view online.

Dr Holly Taylor, professor of psychology at Tufts and corresponding author of the study, said the findings showed that:

"The food you eat can have an immediate impact on cognitive behavior."

"The popular low-carb, no-carb diets have the strongest potential for negative impact on thinking and cognition," she added.

Taylor's co-authors and research colleagues were Professor Robin Kanarek, former undergraduate Kara Watts and research associate Kristen D'Anci.

Our brain cells need glucose to work, but they have no way of storing it so they rely on a continuous supply via the bloodstream. The researchers had a hunch that reducing carbohydrate intake would reduce the body's ability to keep the brain supplied with glucose and therefore affect cognition, since glucose comes from breaking down carbohydrates.

For the study, Taylor and colleagues recruited 19 women aged 22 to 55 and let them each choose to go on either a low carb or low calorie diet as recommended by the American Dietetic Association. Nine of them chose the low carb diet and the other 10 chose the low calorie diet.

Altogether the participants attended five assessment sessions. Session 1 was just before they started on their chosen diet, sessions 2 and 3 were during the first week of dieting (when the low-carb dieters eliminated carbohydrates), and sessions 4 and 5 were in weeks 2 and 3, after the low-carb dieters started eating carbohydrates again.

During the assessment sessions the dieters performed a range of tests that measured attention, short and long term memory, visual attention and spatial memory. They also answered questions about how hungry they felt and their mood.

The results showed that:

Low carb dieters showed a gradual decrease on memory tasks compared with low-calorie dieters.

Reaction time for the low-carb dieters was slower, and their visual-spatial memory was not as good as that of the low-calorie dieters.

But low-carb dieters responded better than low-calorie dieters in the attention-vigilance tasks.

This last result is consistent with previous studies that found people on high protein or high fat diets showed short term improvements in attention.

Basically in low carb their memory was impared, but did better in doing tasks that required more attention and concentration. Also they said very high level of ketones can be toxic, well that's not correct. It's ketoacidosis that can be toxic and that happens in the absence of insulin.........our pH levels drop and it becomes a medical emergency. Alcoholics and type 1 diabetics could be in harms way, but the average person, pretty much negligible. A bit of a propoganda piece or maybe just repeating another article without editing.

But everything I read about ketosis states that as a risk:

http://www.webmd.com/diet/high-protein-low-carbohydrate-diets

What Are the Risks Linked to High Protein, Low-Carb Diets?

High protein, low-carb diets can cause a number of health problems, including:

- Kidney failure. Consuming too much protein puts a strain on the kidneys, which can make a person susceptible to kidney disease.
- High cholesterol . It is well known that high-protein diets (consisting of red meat, whole dairy products, and other high fat foods) are linked to high cholesterol. Studies have linked high cholesterol levels to an increased risk of developing heart disease, stroke, and cancer.
- Osteoporosis and kidney stones. High-protein diets have also been shown to cause people to excrete a large amount of calcium in their urine. Over a prolonged period of time, this can increase a person's risk of osteoporosis and kidney stones. A diet that increases protein at the expense of a very restrictive intake of plant carbohydrates may be bad for bones, but not necessarily a high-protein intake alone.
- Cancer. One of the reasons high-protein diets increase the risks of certain health problems is because of the avoidance of carbohydrate-containing foods and the vitamins, minerals, fiber, and antioxidants they contain. It is therefore important to obtain your protein from a diet rich in whole grains, fruits, and vegetables. Not only are your needs for protein being met, but you are also helping to reduce your risk of developing cancer.
- Unhealthy metabolic state (ketosis). Low-carb diets can cause your body to go into a dangerous metabolic state called ketosis since your body burns fat instead of glucose for energy. During ketosis, the body forms substances known as ketones, which can cause organs to fail and result in gout, kidney stones, or kidney failure. Ketones can also dull a person's appetite, cause nausea and bad breath. Ketosis can be prevented by eating at least 100 grams of carbohydrates a day.

I am at 50 NET carbs or less a day. That equates to approximately SEVEN CUPS OF BROCCOLI people. I AM IN KETOSIS.

When people talk about low carb they are talking about going without grains or sugars, not without carbs.

God bless it.

All this infernal babbling and people think you have to consume absolutely NO carbs to be in ketosis. Please, do some real homework. Don't just post each piece of information you find. Don't just post each and every study you find.

Learn. Honestly learn something. Don't just argue to hear your own voice.

Look at the person telling you that they consume so few carbs. See how intelligent their post is? See the complete sentences? Notice the proper punctuation? See their rock hard abs? Guess what? They aren't suffering from crazy brain fog! They are working out! Running marathons! They are doing what you are INSISTING is impossible.

Bless your hearts, but the earth just isn't flat.

You can consume VERY little carbs and be in ketosis and eat vegetables. Please, education!!! Research. Learn from others. The world is a big place. Explore it!

I am at 50 NET carbs or less a day. That equates to approximately SEVEN CUPS OF BROCCOLI people. I AM IN KETOSIS.

When people talk about low carb they are talking about going without grains or sugars, not without carbs.

God bless it.

All this infernal babbling and people think you have to consume absolutely NO carbs to be in ketosis. Please, do some real homework. Don't just post each piece of information you find. Don't just post each and every study you find.

Learn. Honestly learn something. Don't just argue to hear your own voice.

Look at the person telling you that they consume so few carbs. See how intelligent their post is? See the complete sentences? Notice the proper punctuation? See their rock hard abs? Guess what? They aren't suffering from crazy brain fog! They are working out! Running marathons! They are doing what you are INSISTING is impossible.

Bless your hearts, but the earth just isn't flat.

You can consume VERY little carbs and be in ketosis and eat vegetables. Please, education!!! Research. Learn from others. The world is a big place. Explore it!

I am at 50 NET carbs or less a day. That equates to approximately SEVEN CUPS OF BROCCOLI people. I AM IN KETOSIS.

When people talk about low carb they are talking about going without grains or sugars, not without carbs.

God bless it.

All this infernal babbling and people think you have to consume absolutely NO carbs to be in ketosis. Please, do some real homework. Don't just post each piece of information you find. Don't just post each and every study you find.

Learn. Honestly learn something. Don't just argue to hear your own voice.

Look at the person telling you that they consume so few carbs. See how intelligent their post is? See the complete sentences? Notice the proper punctuation? See their rock hard abs? Guess what? They aren't suffering from crazy brain fog! They are working out! Running marathons! They are doing what you are INSISTING is impossible.

Bless your hearts, but the earth just isn't flat.

You can consume VERY little carbs and be in ketosis and eat vegetables. Please, education!!! Research. Learn from others. The world is a big place. Explore it!

Who knew all it took was a set of rock hard abs...

Yo. Putting your understanding of the world and listening to others understanding of the world is how learning happens. It's called discourse. One of the frequently mentioned issues with this site is that people get ridiculed and shut down rather than educated. It's risky to be wrong and that's a barrier to learning

I'm accepting nobody's opinion based on their abs. For all I know, they could be using steroids. I need things to make sense for me. I have enough of an education to "get it" if you do me the courtesy to provide more proof than a photo stolen off the internet or the reference to an imaginary degree.