Everything in moderation

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  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    I think what is not being understood is not that we are craving the food we choose not to buy, but that having some of the food CREATES THE CRAVING.. I don't go around craving cinnamon buns, rarely ever think of them, but if I go to the bakery and smell them, the craving starts and heaven help me if I buy them, I will eat at least four before I stop. And even if I bought one, the calorie count is a whole meals worth of calories for me so what is point exactly ?
    I enjoy eating gala apples, they taste amazing but I don't get a craving to have a second or third apple after I eat one. There is the difference.

    I actually do the same with arugula. But nobody cares, because it's basically fiber.
  • kld1624
    kld1624 Posts: 20 Member
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    I think this is actually a great idea for me personally. So many times I've tried different diets or programs where you can't eat certain foods. I would drive myself silly seeing all these foods I enjoyed but "couldn't have" & would cave in eventually due to lack of self control. Once I'd cave once, I'd usually do it again and fall right off the bandwagon. I would also find myself over indulging when I'd cave in and actually have far more than if I had just portioned it out to begin with.

    My husband and I are working together this time around and are simply calorie counting, measuring our food (we were having huge portion control issues) & exercising daily (which we did not do before). We still eat what we want, however, we are very conscious of portion sizes and making better choices (i.e.- hard yogurt vs. ice cream, etc.). Obviously we're not eating peanut butter cups and "junk" daily, however, if we want a little piece of something in moderation on occasion, we will allow it.

    So far, this seems like an approach that I can adopt as a long term lifestyle change that I can stick with and not drive myself crazy at the end of the day. I think I will see better results by focusing on portion control and exercise, but still eating what I like. It wasn't so much what we were eating before - we do pretty well with that, it was lack of exercise & big problems with portion control. We've already seen some great results on the scale and in the way we physically & mentally feel. :)
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
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    All of that sounds lovely and I wish I were able to do it...

    There are certain things I just cannot have in my house, ice cream being one of them. I bought frozen yogurt this week and the gallon was gone in 4 days.


    Some people are seemingly unable to control themselves when it comes to certain "trigger foods". In theory everything in moderation sounds fabulous, but in practice it's not always best for everyone.

    You wouldn't tell an alcoholic to enjoy a couple beers in moderation, would you? I'd hope not...

    alcohol is an addictive drug which causes physiological changes in the body that leads to physiological dependence

    food is something that's supposed to be in your body because that's how animals evolved

    not the same

    WORD!!! DO NOT use alcohol or drugs as a comparision. I HATE when people do that.

    And by the way I notice the words "I can't" being used. Replace it with "I won't" because we CAN stop if we want to. I don't care how many feathers I ruffle. It's frugging true and we all know it.

    then how do you explain this?
    iStock_000008790029XSmall.jpg

    Idiocy, fear mongering, misinformed, dogmatic.

    If you believe sugar is the issue, explain the Australian Paradox.
  • IronPlayground
    IronPlayground Posts: 1,594 Member
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    OK moderation does not mean keeping the food in your house people. I can't have Vienna fingers in my house as I will just eat the entire thing. However, if I want and I see a single serving package, I can have that. It won't make me pig out because one day I had these cookies.

    Everything in moderation means, its OK to have desert once in a while.
    Sugar in your coffee will not kill you!
    Having a chocolate pudding for desert will not derail a diet.
    One chocolate bar will not make you fat.

    Weight watchers has been successful for 40 years or so with this simple approach. They are the long lasting diet plan out there. Nutrisystem and Jenny Craig give you the food, but the same concept applies, they have puddings and deserts and pizza. You don't need to demonize food, but you do need to balance what you eat. Balance in diet and life is how you get healthy.

    FYI, most of the diets that people swear by are fad diets. At one point Atkins was all the rage, don't hear too much about that anymore. My mom did a very very low fat diet and started losing her hair. Grapefruit diet was the best ever 20 years ago, where did that go? Extreme diets are fads. I am not saying that eating Raw is not healthy, choosing a to be a vegetarian or vegan is healthy, making a choice to eliminate processed foods is healthy too.

    But, couldn't you eat the yummy foods then get in your very fantastic Tardis and go back and not let yourself eat that food? Wouldn't that accomplish both eating and not eating?

    Would you need to log it if your ate it, but then you didn't? I'm confusing myself.
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
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    OK moderation does not mean keeping the food in your house people. I can't have Vienna fingers in my house as I will just eat the entire thing. However, if I want and I see a single serving package, I can have that. It won't make me pig out because one day I had these cookies.

    Everything in moderation means, its OK to have desert once in a while.
    Sugar in your coffee will not kill you!
    Having a chocolate pudding for desert will not derail a diet.
    One chocolate bar will not make you fat.

    Weight watchers has been successful for 40 years or so with this simple approach. They are the long lasting diet plan out there. Nutrisystem and Jenny Craig give you the food, but the same concept applies, they have puddings and deserts and pizza. You don't need to demonize food, but you do need to balance what you eat. Balance in diet and life is how you get healthy.

    FYI, most of the diets that people swear by are fad diets. At one point Atkins was all the rage, don't hear too much about that anymore. My mom did a very very low fat diet and started losing her hair. Grapefruit diet was the best ever 20 years ago, where did that go? Extreme diets are fads. I am not saying that eating Raw is not healthy, choosing a to be a vegetarian or vegan is healthy, making a choice to eliminate processed foods is healthy too.

    But, couldn't you eat the yummy foods then get in your very fantastic Tardis and go back and not let yourself eat that food? Wouldn't that accomplish both eating and not eating?

    Would you need to log it if your ate it, but then you didn't? I'm confusing myself.

    Lol you could go back and tell yourself that it gave you wepons grade flatulence!

    Look.
    I know I've sparked some good debates on the subject and appreciate the feedback.
    I know we have addictions and mental illness and a slew of other issues.
    What I see here on a daily basis is people obsessing o er e very calorie passing between their lips.
    I see people confusing correlation vs causation.
    I see a lot of BS dogma.

    Any one of my clients will tell you that I generally do t say "eat this not that."
    You eat smart to fuel training and maintain a 70% healthy whole food choice, and have fun with the rest!

    Stressing about it causes more damage than just eating it and being happy.
    BEEING HAPPY MODARFALKERS!!!
    ;)

    Were all in here brawling about this and that, chill and live life!

    Okay who's next?
  • kgeyser
    kgeyser Posts: 22,505 Member
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    I agree with the OP. I think where people get derailed is reading "you can have everything in moderation" as "you must have these foods available at all times and control yourself." The OP is merely suggesting that rather than denying yourself a certain food that you enjoy completely, you figure out a way to make it work in your life in moderation.

    Each one of use determines what moderation means for ourselves. It could mean only have cake on special occasions, or only buying the single serving package of Reese's peanut butter cups rather than the entire bag of mini cups when you have a craving. As another poster mentioned, going out to an ice cream shop for a cone when the craving hits rather than buying an entire gallon.

    The idea is finding a way to fit foods you like and enjoy into your life without going overboard. If you don't enjoy a food, no one is saying you have to eat it or that you have a problem if you choose not to eat it, and I think that goes for all types of food.
  • pukekolive
    pukekolive Posts: 237 Member
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    Yes! If I buy a packet of cookies I eat them all - so I only buy the twinpacks or little packs with 5 in them. That's a HUGE binge - 5 cookies - NOT!

    A little bit of what you fancy goes a long way

    I have one large latte made at home in the mornings with raw sugar and a cup of tea in the afternoon with 1 white sugar , the rest of the time I drink water - I don't feel deprived at all and the morning caffeine hit is wonderful
  • pukekolive
    pukekolive Posts: 237 Member
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    To hazelclark, I have seen and read articles that suggest our predeliction for sugar, simple carbs and fat is because we are hungry for protein which, apart from protein-rich animal products is often found in conjunction with carbs (e.g. grain products and carbs) and/or sugar and fat (vegies, fruit and nuts) in smaller concentrations.

    The theory is that the body wants to eat enough of these to get the protein it needs, which is why we have the drive to continue to eat the carb and fat-rich food in such quantities.

    Eat more lean/ good protein people with moderate carbs and fat - works for me - 24kg lost!
  • Meggles63
    Meggles63 Posts: 916 Member
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    Thank you Dan, for some common sense among all the butthurt!

    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  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    I agree with the OP. I think where people get derailed is reading "you can have everything in moderation" as "you must have these foods available at all times and control yourself." The OP is merely suggesting that rather than denying yourself a certain food that you enjoy completely, you figure out a way to make it work in your life in moderation.
    They need to add this food to their week.
    Sounds like I should be having it this week.
    Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it.
    Not the case for me. I eat cheese because I like cheese. I can easily eat a whole 350/400g block of cheese EVERY day and continue doing so for extended periods. Did I mention I like cheese?
    It takes me a few week to 'detox' (:P) from cheese and then I don't really miss it.
    In the past I can remember portioning myself out 100 calories of normal cheese. It was a ridiculously small amount.
    These days it's more a case that on low calorie days I don't want to fill up my macros with it and on lifting days I'm trying not to let my fat go TOO high.
    I do still have low fat cheese (the weight watchers one is particularly good with 30g protein and 10g fat per 100g, but it only comes in small packs and is expensive. The 200g pack never lasts more than the day, but I don't mind with those macros.





    Each one of use determines what moderation means for ourselves. It could mean only have cake on special occasions, or only buying the single serving package of Reese's peanut butter cups rather than the entire bag of mini cups when you have a craving. As another poster mentioned, going out to an ice cream shop for a cone when the craving hits rather than buying an entire gallon.

    The idea is finding a way to fit foods you like and enjoy into your life without going overboard. If you don't enjoy a food, no one is saying you have to eat it or that you have a problem if you choose not to eat it, and I think that goes for all types of food.
    [/quote]
  • Joanne_Moniz
    Joanne_Moniz Posts: 347 Member
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    If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.

    Why?

    Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days. :)

    This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
    Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D

    Seriously though.
    All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
    Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
    Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
    When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
    Paleo is the only way to live.
    Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
    Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
    Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.

    All of that is total Bull****!

    Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
    If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
    If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.

    Relax and live!

    It would be helpful, I think, to members if you could define moderation... for example on a 1500 calorie diet how much sugar?


    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
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    It would be helpful, I think, to members if you could define moderation... for example on a 1500 calorie diet how much sugar?
    Do you have a problem eating sugar?
    What are your fitness goals?
    What are your body composition goals?
    Are you distinguishing between different types of sugar?
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    To hazelclark, I have seen and read articles that suggest our predeliction for sugar, simple carbs and fat is because we are hungry for protein which, apart from protein-rich animal products is often found in conjunction with carbs (e.g. grain products and carbs) and/or sugar and fat (vegies, fruit and nuts) in smaller concentrations.

    The theory is that the body wants to eat enough of these to get the protein it needs, which is why we have the drive to continue to eat the carb and fat-rich food in such quantities.

    Eat more lean/ good protein people with moderate carbs and fat - works for me - 24kg lost!

    My experience, though, is when I am hungry and over my calories it's because I'm out of balance with either my carbs or my fat. I generally get more than enough protein for my needs as a part of my unconscious diet choices.
  • DamePiglet
    DamePiglet Posts: 3,730 Member
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    I have come to realize that most people in this thread are not even addressing the issue at all in any way shape or form.

    What the OP is trying to say is that it's OK to have any food you want in your house. Just eat it moderately. To which some of us do not have that self-control required to do that. to which the OP then calls people alcoholics and eating disordered. Funny that that issue isn't being addressed. Dan is a black and white person with no grey at all. I realize that he is perfect. And, some of you are also perfect. Some day I hope I can be like you and eliminate my alcoholic eating disordered ways. But, for now, I'll just continue grocery shopping for food I enjoy eating, I'll leave out the Reeses and peanut butter ice cream, and just do that, BECAUSE IT FREAKING WORKS.

    I was just talking to someone that was laughing that I count calories and said they can't be bothered. Of course, they are fat. So, yeah.

    I can't be perfect, so I'll just eliminate things that create my disorder. Enjoy your perfect existences. It must be awesome to be you.

    You, like other posters, have family members / kids.

    Do your children or family members get to possess your "trigger" foods, or do they all have to live without because of your lack of self-control?

    If they have to do without: Is that fair? I mean, what if they can enjoy snacks in moderation, but you aren't allowing them to? Are you making them do without for your own benefit?

    If they ARE allowed snacks, but you choose not to eat them, aren't you actually using self-control when it comes to what's theirs and what's yours? How come what's "yours" can't be just one package, cup, whatever?
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.

    Why?

    Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days. :)

    This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
    Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D

    Seriously though.
    All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
    Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
    Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
    When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
    Paleo is the only way to live.
    Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
    Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
    Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.

    All of that is total Bull****!

    Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
    If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
    If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.

    Relax and live!

    It would be helpful, I think, to members if you could define moderation... for example on a 1500 calorie diet how much sugar?


    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity

    However much you enjoy eating as long as you are meeting the rest of your macro and micro nutrient needs within your calorie goals.
  • bettyjoburdett
    bettyjoburdett Posts: 120 Member
    Options
    SMH

    Now another person new to the forums is going to run to the market and stock up on cookies, icecream, soda and chips, all because they were told they could and SHOULD eat them in moderation.

    2 months from now they are going to be just as frustrated as they were the day they started MFP.

    Some people have to learn new behaviors and get their weight and body fat down to a point that they understand what will happen to them if they binge and know it is not worth it.

    Until that day comes, they need to cut the foods out of their life they are incapable of moderating.

    To shame people that can not moderate food is bullying them.......period.........some of us have things we are incapable of moderating, and we have to abstain from them. I have not died yet from not having a drink of alcohol in 6 years or a bag of Costco cashew pumpkin clusters.....cant moderate them....and I am not ashamed of that fact.

    I think some people over indulge in vanity.
  • geebusuk
    geebusuk Posts: 3,348 Member
    Options
    Oh wow, I was being BULLIED.
    :D

    Missed that.

    For what it's worth, I do often eat entire tubs of icecream and so on - but make sure I've burnt the calories before they go in my mouth.
  • Joanne_Moniz
    Joanne_Moniz Posts: 347 Member
    Options
    It would be helpful, I think, to members if you could define moderation... for example on a 1500 calorie diet how much sugar?
    Do you have a problem eating sugar?
    What are your fitness goals?
    What are your body composition goals?
    Are you distinguishing between different types of sugar?

    I am referring to moderation... what is considered moderation? What would he recommend as moderation for sugar?

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group
  • Joanne_Moniz
    Joanne_Moniz Posts: 347 Member
    Options
    If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.

    Why?

    Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days. :)


    This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
    Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D

    Seriously though.
    All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
    Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
    Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
    When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
    Paleo is the only way to live.
    Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
    Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
    Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.

    All of that is total Bull****!

    Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
    If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
    If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.

    Relax and live!

    It would be helpful, I think, to members if you could define moderation... for example on a 1500 calorie diet how much sugar?


    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity

    However much you enjoy eating as long as you are meeting the rest of your macro and micro nutrient needs within your calorie goals.

    So, as long as one eats the proper amount of protein, carbohydrates and fats,(macros) and also the micros, one could drink as much coca cola as they wish? as much sugar as they wish....?????

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group
  • Helloitsdan
    Helloitsdan Posts: 5,565 Member
    Options
    If you know someone who says "I can't eat XYZ food because I cannot control myself when I eat it." They need to add this food to their week.

    Why?

    Because if you believe the 1 food you love so much is making you fat because you binge eat it, that's because you're trying to completely eliminate it. Eat the ****ing food and enjoy it in moderation! Fit it into your macros! The psychological anguish you have thinking about this food you love is far far worse than simply having a serving of it every few nights. Especially on lifting days. :)


    This type of mentality should be used in just about everything you do!
    Except of course the love you have for your family and friends! ;D

    Seriously though.
    All over this forum I see people demonizing food and activities.
    Sugar causes diabetes so I cannot have any sugar at all.
    Saturated fat causes heart disease so I cannot have saturated fat at all.
    When I go bowling, I drink beer. I cannot bowl ever again.
    Paleo is the only way to live.
    Ketogenic diets are the only diets that work.
    Strong Lifts 5x5 is the only way to lift weights.
    Calisthenics rule and if you want to be lean, only do calisthenics.

    All of that is total Bull****!

    Do the things that make you happy in moderation!
    If you restrict too much, you'll surely fail and binge on what you think is causing the issue.
    If you don't try new things, you'll never know what really works and what doesn't.

    Relax and live!

    It would be helpful, I think, to members if you could define moderation... for example on a 1500 calorie diet how much sugar?


    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity

    However much you enjoy eating as long as you are meeting the rest of your macro and micro nutrient needs within your calorie goals.

    So, as long as one eats the proper amount of protein, carbohydrates and fats,(macros) and also the micros, one could drink as much coca cola as they wish? as much sugar as they wish....?????

    Joanne Moniz
    The Skinny on Obesity Group

    Very cult like views.
    My post isn't about gluttony.
    Its about moderation.
    Drinking A coke is far different from drinking 2 liters of coke.

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