Fat Positivity?

I'm very much against discrimination against people based on size or what their body looks like. Their health is their business, and it's their doctor's job to judge the state of their health, not random strangers or casual acquaintances. So I'm in favour of it from that perspective.

BUT I have seen a lot of people within this movement kidding themselves that they're healthy when they're not. I don't see how that's all that different to people glorifying extreme thinness/self starvation. They're both unhealthy extremes and people should strive to be healthy, both physically and mentally.

That said, when it comes to health there is a *massive* over-focus on body fat, at the expense of all other factors. e.g. someone can be a bit chubby yet healthy according to every other measure of health, and people focus only on the fact that they have, say, 30-35% body fat (for women) and look a bit chubby (same with men at 25-30%). And at the same time you get lean, sedentary, people who eat a very unbalanced diet who think they're healthy because their BMI is in the healthy range, yet they can barely walk up a flight of stairs, have low bone density, weak muscles and their blood lipid levels are not very good. And their body fat percentage may be as much as 30% but it doesn't notice because the low lean mass keeps their weight in the "healthy" BMI range..... which is far from healthy. People look at the two and focus on the chubby but fit person, and ignore the sedentary but thin looking person. That's what I take issue with. Health is not just about body fat, it's about a whole range of different things, and everyone should strive to be healthy. So maybe the fit but chubby person could do with lowering their body fat percentage a little..... but the skinny sedentary person needs to get in the gym and get active just as much as a fat sedentary person does, and they also need to focus on eating a balanced diet and improving their body fat percentage. And additionally, while it's possible to be very fit and a little bit obese (e.g. around 35% body fat).......... there's a limit to how fat someone can be without the fatness itself impacting their health in a severe way, both from the risk of long term health problems and also because fat makes it hard to be physically active. Fat and sedentary is a very bad situation from a health point of view.

Body discrimination of any kind is wrong. Very slender people get discriminated against, and overweight people do, too. Even muscular people get hate.

It's always wrong. It's always mean. It's never acceptable.

It reminds me of the "Meat is for the man, bones are for the dog" saying. People who are overweight do not want things said about them that could hurt their feelings but assume that because someone is thin, they have no reason to be offended. The thin bashing is the same as fat shaming and they should all be ashamed of themselves.

Yes, but as a medicine student, I know what I'm talking about. They're usually kidding themselves. It puts so much strain on their organs and is extremely damaging to their joints. Yet they claim to be healthy.

This arrogance will make you a bad doctor. You are 20, so likely 2nd or 3rd year of college or, if not in the US you still have 3-6 year to be a doctor. Most good doctors know that at best they have an educated guess and that their "knowledge" base can and will be overturned time and time again.

Being slightly overweight is often a long term statistical indicator of better health than being slightly underweight. There are now many epidemiological studies that demonstrate this; it also highlights that weight isn't the only health factor.

People that have joint issues know it, they aren't usually kidding themselves, they are quite aware of the issue. Perhaps a few people are in denial but my professional experience (as a hip prosthetic designer/biomaterials researcher for 6 years in which I saw hundreds of patients) is that the overweight person with joint pain is well aware of the weight contribution to the issue. If they could wave a magic wand and magically reduce their weight they would. It's a pretty easily litmus test question.

For many people who are overweight, having a positive attitude about themselves can be an essential step to losing weight. Feel good and you might have the energy to change while negativity about the body, depression may lead some down the path of fatalism and giving up. In this sense accepting yourself, being happy may be factors of success in weight loss.

The people who have issues with this "movement" don't have a problem with people being happy with their bodies. The problem is when people inside the group begin discriminating against those outside the group, in this case, thin or average people being called out and bashed online and in real life. I have witnessed this happening.
I'm all for body love, whatever, but I don't think the example these "Tumblr fatspo bloggers" is in any way helpful for their cause. When was the last time you listened to or learned something positive from a man screaming on the street? I see no difference between this and ranting, disgruntled bloggers, who attack others with words. They need to figure out the right way to deliver their message without being so hateful and angry.

Now, that's just tone policing.

Conveniently enough, it's also not true.

I actually run a body positive blog (I can link it here, if anyone's interested) and I promise that it's never been used to perpetuate "thin hate" or whatever it is that people are supposedly worried about. I can't say that no-one has ever just out and out hated on thin people, but I /can/ say that's not what this movement is about.

That said, who wouldn't be angry? Who wouldn't yell? People (thin ones in particular) have been telling me my whole life "Sweetie you'd look /so good/ if you just dropped, you know, 15-20lbs." They've told me I'm not allowed to wear what I want. (Should you really wear those shorts?) They've told me I'm not allowed to eat what I want. (Maybe you should, you know, skip the bread. All those calories...) They've called me names. (Cow. Fat slut.)

We can't all be Ghandi. Sometimes, it takes anger to make things happen. The goal of fat positive and body positive bloggers is to create safe spaces online for people who have body types that don't fit mainstream beauty ideals. That means people of color, people who are fat, people with disabilities, trans* individuals, etc. These spaces NEED to exist. People need places to learn to love themselves. Society won't be providing them. There's too much money in making people hate themselves. (Too fat? Too ugly? Buy OUR product and we can make you acceptable) Because of that, we have to create them for ourselves.

And actually, people do have a problem with fat people loving themselves. I hear all kinds of horrible comments all day long about how so-and-so really needs to drop some confidence because she's "way too fat" to be as pretty as she thinks she is, or whatever. I've seen it make people genuinely angry. Hell, it used to make /me/ angry, once. When I was, y'know, in the middle of my ed.

The reason for that anger is because it's threatening. It's scary to see someone who's the embodiment of what you've been taught to believe is unloveable loving themselves. It's scary because someone isn't suffering the same fear of fat that you are. It feels unfair that they get to love themselves when you work SO HARD to be the "right" kind of body, and still have trouble.

that response was perfect omfg

The people who have issues with this "movement" don't have a problem with people being happy with their bodies. The problem is when people inside the group begin discriminating against those outside the group, in this case, thin or average people being called out and bashed online and in real life. I have witnessed this happening.
I'm all for body love, whatever, but I don't think the example these "Tumblr fatspo bloggers" is in any way helpful for their cause. When was the last time you listened to or learned something positive from a man screaming on the street? I see no difference between this and ranting, disgruntled bloggers, who attack others with words. They need to figure out the right way to deliver their message without being so hateful and angry.

Now, that's just tone policing.

Conveniently enough, it's also not true.

I actually run a body positive blog (I can link it here, if anyone's interested) and I promise that it's never been used to perpetuate "thin hate" or whatever it is that people are supposedly worried about. I can't say that no-one has ever just out and out hated on thin people, but I /can/ say that's not what this movement is about.

That said, who wouldn't be angry? Who wouldn't yell? People (thin ones in particular) have been telling me my whole life "Sweetie you'd look /so good/ if you just dropped, you know, 15-20lbs." They've told me I'm not allowed to wear what I want. (Should you really wear those shorts?) They've told me I'm not allowed to eat what I want. (Maybe you should, you know, skip the bread. All those calories...) They've called me names. (Cow. Fat slut.)

We can't all be Ghandi. Sometimes, it takes anger to make things happen. The goal of fat positive and body positive bloggers is to create safe spaces online for people who have body types that don't fit mainstream beauty ideals. That means people of color, people who are fat, people with disabilities, trans* individuals, etc. These spaces NEED to exist. People need places to learn to love themselves. Society won't be providing them. There's too much money in making people hate themselves. (Too fat? Too ugly? Buy OUR product and we can make you acceptable) Because of that, we have to create them for ourselves.

And actually, people do have a problem with fat people loving themselves. I hear all kinds of horrible comments all day long about how so-and-so really needs to drop some confidence because she's "way too fat" to be as pretty as she thinks she is, or whatever. I've seen it make people genuinely angry. Hell, it used to make /me/ angry, once. When I was, y'know, in the middle of my ed.

The reason for that anger is because it's threatening. It's scary to see someone who's the embodiment of what you've been taught to believe is unloveable loving themselves. It's scary because someone isn't suffering the same fear of fat that you are. It feels unfair that they get to love themselves when you work SO HARD to be the "right" kind of body, and still have trouble.

that response was perfect omfg

My reaction as well.

Everything that you said was on point, but especially the bolded part.

Aha, I found the link to this study's abstract about the impact of body acceptance on health: http://www.journals.elsevierhealth.com/periodicals/yjada/article/S0002-8223(05)00322-6/abstract

Here is what the abstract says:
Abstract
Objective
Examine a model that encourages health at every size as opposed to weight loss. The health at every size concept supports homeostatic regulation and eating intuitively (ie, in response to internal cues of hunger, satiety, and appetite).

Design
Six-month, randomized clinical trial; 2-year follow-up.

Subjects
White, obese, female chronic dieters, aged 30 to 45 years (N=78).

Setting
Free-living, general community.

Interventions
Six months of weekly group intervention (health at every size program or diet program), followed by 6 months of monthly aftercare group support.

Main outcome measures
Anthropometry (weight, body mass index), metabolic fitness (blood pressure, blood lipids), energy expenditure, eating behavior (restraint, eating disorder pathology), and psychology (self-esteem, depression, body image). Attrition, attendance, and participant evaluations of treatment helpfulness were also monitored.

Statistical analysis performed
Analysis of variance.

Results
Cognitive restraint decreased in the health at every size group and increased in the diet group, indicating that both groups implemented their programs. Attrition (6 months) was high in the diet group (41%), compared with 8% in the health at every size group. Fifty percent of both groups returned for 2-year evaluation. Health at every size group members maintained weight, improved in all outcome variables, and sustained improvements. Diet group participants lost weight and showed initial improvement in many variables at 1 year; weight was regained and little improvement was sustained.

Conclusions
The health at every size approach enabled participants to maintain long-term behavior change; the diet approach did not. Encouraging size acceptance, reduction in dieting behavior, and heightened awareness and response to body signals resulted in improved health risk indicators for obese women.


TL;DR size acceptance helps lose weight and sustain long term healthy behaviors.

The fat acceptance movement is fine in my opinion until they start using the term "glorify obesity". That's when you've lost me.

The fat acceptance movement DOES NOT use the term "glorify obesity"!!! That is a phrase thrown at them about what people THINK they are doing.

If they are bashing thin people and saying that they "love their beautiful fat bodies" then it's glorifying obesity. Case closed.

My body is like a brand new Ferrari 458. I absolutely love it and I need to take care of it. My "Ferrari" has to last me until I die. I don't want my "Ferrari" to turn into a "1971 Ford Pinto" by the time I am 45.

Car analogies aren't the best. A Ferrari with a bad fuel line would be less efficient than a '71 Pinto in excellent shape. What's the point? Cars don't have genetics.

But still need to take care of oneself regardless of what shape one is in. Those that have it worse need to pay more attention.

A.C.E. Certified Personal/Group FitnessTrainer
IDEA Fitness member
Kickboxing Certified Instructor
Been in fitness for 30 years and have studied kinesiology and nutrition