Who knew sexism in churches still exists.

Religion can be sexist. Jesus never was.

What I find astounding is that people can be so hostile against different faiths on a website and not get disciplined for it by mods since that is against one of the rules. No discrimination against any people group whatsoever. Actually I'm not really that astounded.

the entire bible does not suppress women... just look at Deborah, a judge. and like another poster stated, you have to take into context the culture at the time the bible was written. things are different now. whereas it says: men, it means today: human kind (all of us)

It's 2014 and we have come a long way, however, we still have a long way to go, imho.

Thank you for saying this. Unfortunately too many people believe the whole Bible should be taken completely literally.

I like to think of it as a teacher's guide, with lots of scenario-based examples for learning. The suggestion to bring this up with your church leader is one that I agree with.

The wording is pretty lame and cheesy.... I'll definitely give you that!!

BUT...

Personally, I think people sometimes want to think that "equal" means "same" and it doesn't. In general, women have different characteristics than men (not talking body parts here people...that's obvious...). And I'm glad for that, because I have certain characteristics that I am strong in where my hubby is weak and vice versa. We compliment each other well in that regard!

Now, every individual is different, but I don't think there is a problem in embracing that our genders do give us different qualities. As a woman I do tend to be a bit more sensitive, instinctive, intuitive and nurturing than my husband. He tends to be more of a "fixer," more laid-back, blunt and emotionally somewhat oblivious at times, lol. Granted, this may not be the case for every person of course, but just talking generalities/majorities here.

Equal treatment is the way to go, but equal does not mean same!

My church had a special service yesterday and part of it had this prayer printed on leaflets that were handed out to the congregation. I wasn't able to make it but my mom went and brought back a copy of this prayer. I am so infuriated by it, and by the fact that I wasn't there to say something.

Basically it had different portions for sisters and brothers and fathers and mothers and stuff. The men's parts talked about stuff like "help us to be rivers of pride and prosperity to our families," and "help us to be assets of strength to our families," while the women's parts said, "help us to add a touch of beauty and grace to our families," and "help us to be sources of warmth and encouragement to our families." On the outside it doesn't seem like such a big deal but the wording makes me so angry.

Women are told to ask to be a touch of beauty. That wording sounds gentle and delicate. Men are assets of strength, which makes them sound strong and firm, like pillars. And who said women can't ask God to be both prosperous and warm? It was so sexist. I didn't see the need to divide the prayer into two genders. Both men and women can ask for both things, (though asking to be a touch of beauty for men does seem a bit funny.

The fact that this came from a church is what made me furious. That they're still peddling these stereotypical, outdated gender roles is telling.

Please, get over it.

Sexism in church? Shocking!

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." - Timothy 2:11

“…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24

“….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9

In studying the letters Paul wrote, some scholars speculate that there were some women, most likely non-Jewish women, who were speaking up in church and causing strife and division, which is why Paul made the statements about women being silent in church.

As to submissiveness, that meaning has been debated for decades if not longer. I'm submissive to my husband in the way that when there are two people going somewhere, someone has to take the lead, and God gave that job to the man of the household. (For example, what would happen if a car had two steering wheels in front, and both people tried to drive it somewhere? LOL Chaos!) If my husband makes the major decisions (with my input, of course!) the responsibility of that decision, right or wrong, rests on him. If I couldn't trust him to make those decisions, I wouldn't have married him.

What people often ignore, because of their rightful opposition of sexism, is that men are instructed to love their wives as Christ loves the Church... which He demonstrated by giving up His life. (Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her... Ephesians 5:25) To me, it seems like the men have the much tougher job!

Also, Jesus spoke to women when others of the day/culture would not, and He allowed them places of ministry. He ELEVATED the status of women in that culture.

We have to remember that while the Bible is meant for all of us today, it was also written to address specific cultural issues of the times. Other cultures/beliefs/traditions/laws/gods often had a way of mixing in and confusing things.

Yes, sexism in the Church still exists, but I think it's just a matter of time and revelation before things get better. When I first became a Christian as a young adult, the only "ministry opportunities" available to women were Sunday School teachers and nursery workers. Times HAVE changed... but there's a lot of "old wineskin" thinking that has to change.

Perhaps you could check out other churches...? A different denomination, or a non-denominational church? A non-confrontive talk with the pastor might help, too. Express your concerns. It could be that this prayer was pulled off some dusty old shelf and reused without much thought to it. It happens.

Remember, God loves us all equally, so focus on that while the Church sorts out these issues.

:-)

The wording is pretty lame and cheesy.... I'll definitely give you that!!

BUT...

Personally, I think people sometimes want to think that "equal" means "same" and it doesn't. In general, women have different characteristics than men (not talking body parts here people...that's obvious...). And I'm glad for that, because I have certain characteristics that I am strong in where my hubby is weak and vice versa. We compliment each other well in that regard!

Now, every individual is different, but I don't think there is a problem in embracing that our genders do give us different qualities. As a woman I do tend to be a bit more sensitive, instinctive, intuitive and nurturing than my husband. He tends to be more of a "fixer," more laid-back, blunt and emotionally somewhat oblivious at times, lol. Granted, this may not be the case for every person of course, but just talking generalities/majorities here.

Equal treatment is the way to go, but equal does not mean same!

This attitude is fine as long as it's not to be considered 'the rule'.

For example, I'm female and I'm a fixer. Does that mean I'm not female enough?

Also, how do we know any of this is really related to gender? Maybe it's cultural. How do we know what if any psychological differences we possess without cultural input?

Sexism in church? Shocking!

“Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent." - Timothy 2:11

“…the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.” 1 Corinthians 14:34-35

“Wives, be submissive to your husbands, as to the Lord. For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, and is himself its Savior. As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.” Ephesians 5:21-24

“….and so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be sensible, chaste, domestic, kind, and submissive to their husbands, that the word of God may not be discredited…. Bid slaves to be submissive to their masters and to give satisfaction in every respect…” Titus 2:4-9

Okay, I haven't come across these in my Bible reading. I definitely would never have survived in those times. But I will say that no church I know follows these. No one expects women to be silent and ask questions at home only. Women preachers are just as successful as the men. Joyce Meyer, anyone? And the thing about being submissive to your husband. It's not literal, there's a meaning to that.

Oh, boy. They're there. All the Bibles have them. And yes, they were intended to be taken literally when they were originally written, as were the verses that tell men that they can marry the women they rape when pillage the villages of the enemy.

This is not shocking in the least.

Well, I said what I wanted to say and heard opinions from all the different perspectives I was curious about. I'm done for the night. You guys enjoy arguing over religion. I'm going to bed.

Again. What did you expect was going to happen on a public forum. Next time, don't post flame baiting threads and then act shocked that it ended up with a lot of arguments and differing discussions going on.