Does quality of food matter if you remain within calories?

ok, I dare you to experiment, if you eat "real food", and balanced meals, eat only enough grams of carbs a day to replenish glycogen lost, INCREASE everything else besides carbs, eat as much as u can, do HIIT cardio and lift and I promise the more food you eat the leaner you will get. will you take this challenge ? prob not, fear will likely stop you from trusting me.

No, your lack of making a coherent point is stopping us from trusting you.

Also, how do you know how many carbs you need to replace lost glycogen>?

Can I drink a bottle of oil on this plan?

You did not answer this question of mine

sorry, did not see this, glycogen in general the body utilizes about 130 grams a day for just brain function, muscle glycogen is about 400 grams worth and can be used up in about 6 hours of fasting or in one hour of intense training. so you can actually eat more than you think without excess. its still a rough estimating game, but you tweak based on results , no fat loss, drop carbs and or increase calories. also my buddy would eat something like 250 grams of fat per day, he was ridiculous, and got down to 5-6%BF with Parillo 9 site caliper method done by be every time. his LBM went up as his fat went down, something most "Bodybuilders" don't think is possible simultaneously . thats what the body does with any "excess" calories. I mean if you eat 4,000, you are really only getting like 3600 due to TEF. so thats what the body sees. and if u wish to keep discussing this further, feel free to email me at nick.west77@me.com, I'm willing to talk to you because u sound fairly open to this concept and not just hardcore calories.

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so you think the people on here who initially responded to me with attacks and jokes deserve my respect ? few have even attempted to engage me with the slightest intelligence and open-mindedness on this topic, they are So brainwashed in the calorie world that I'm just a heretic to them, its fine, i KNOW the truth and how a body really responds to food intake, i don't have the best comm skills ok, not that its anyones business but that comes with being "high functioning aspergers", and if anyone knows aspergers, they take their field of study SERIOUSLY and tend to learn WAY more than most others, like tesla, einstein, etc, no I'm not saying I'm on their level, but i am saying that i know what I'm doing when it comes to this and try to spread the word so people can stop the calorie madness. but i don't care about the attacks, i will talk to those who are willing to question their beliefs and humor me in what I'm saying.

I understand where you are coming from but, when you start talking about pro athletes and world class athletes like Michael Phelps, then you are going to lose me. I am not a pro athlete.

Like most people on this forum, I am an average person trying to lose my excess weight. I personally can not work out in a gym because of health conditions so dietary restrictions is the only way I can lose weight.

i don't have the best comm skills ok, not that its anyones business but that comes with being "high functioning aspergers", and if anyone knows aspergers, they take their field of study SERIOUSLY and tend to learn WAY more than most others, like tesla, einstein, etc, no I'm not saying I'm on their level, but i am saying that i know what I'm doing when it comes to this and try to spread the word so people can stop the calorie madness. but i don't care about the attacks, i will talk to those who are willing to question their beliefs and humor me in what I'm saying.

I mean no offense, but having aspergers does not give you a free pass to being a know-it-all. You accuse others of not being able to understand you, therefore creating the illusion that we are your opposition and in the wrong, but the real problem is that you indeed are not communicating well. How about slowing down and trying some paragraph breaks? You can do that, I know you can.

ok, I dare you to experiment, if you eat "real food", and balanced meals, eat only enough grams of carbs a day to replenish glycogen lost, INCREASE everything else besides carbs, eat as much as u can, do HIIT cardio and lift and I promise the more food you eat the leaner you will get. will you take this challenge ? prob not, fear will likely stop you from trusting me.

No, your lack of making a coherent point is stopping us from trusting you.

Also, how do you know how many carbs you need to replace lost glycogen>?

Can I drink a bottle of oil on this plan?

You did not answer this question of mine

sorry, did not see this, glycogen in general the body utilizes about 130 grams a day for just brain function, muscle glycogen is about 400 grams worth and can be used up in about 6 hours of fasting or in one hour of intense training. so you can actually eat more than you think without excess. its still a rough estimating game, but you tweak based on results , no fat loss, drop carbs and or increase calories. also my buddy would eat something like 250 grams of fat per day, he was ridiculous, and got down to 5-6%BF with Parillo 9 site caliper method done by be every time. his LBM went up as his fat went down, something most "Bodybuilders" don't think is possible simultaneously . thats what the body does with any "excess" calories. I mean if you eat 4,000, you are really only getting like 3600 due to TEF. so thats what the body sees. and if u wish to keep discussing this further, feel free to email me at nick.west77@me.com, I'm willing to talk to you because u sound fairly open to this concept and not just hardcore calories.

So - I lift. I can eat about 500g of carbs and unlimited fats and protein a day or am I misunderstanding?

No offense but I do not trust anecdotal results when they are from sources I am not familiar with and trust (nothing personal)

ok, I dare you to experiment, if you eat "real food", and balanced meals, eat only enough grams of carbs a day to replenish glycogen lost, INCREASE everything else besides carbs, eat as much as u can, do HIIT cardio and lift and I promise the more food you eat the leaner you will get. will you take this challenge ? prob not, fear will likely stop you from trusting me.

I have a BMR of 1707 (determined through an oxygen consumption test) so no, of course I'm not going to take on your "challenge" and eat 2500+ calories because I know damn well I will gain weight- whether I eat whole foods or junk food.

By the way, I already eat strictly whole foods (Mediterranean diet, low carb, moderate protein, moderate fat) due to insulin resistance and hypoglycemia.

In other words, your theory has been debunked.

Ok, so your BMR is 1707, do you think it STAYS at that ? and eating less will cause a permanent deficit ?, it will create a deficit for about two weeks, then you will hit a plateau because your 1707 BMR WILL drop to just under what you are eating per day. If you DO take my challenge however, eating MORE than you need will A: RAISE your metabolic rate and thermogenisis (only 1 of the 5 ways we burn calories btw) B: your body will utilize more of the excess calories to build and repair muscle and the body in general, C: it costs 10% roughly of what you eat just to digest the food so you end up with only 90% at most. your body ramps UP fat burning enzymes and hormones. result is you WILL lose more fat than before and perform better. calories are no different that water, you drink more you piss more out, drink less, you retain more. like I said, its called a "Negative Feedback Loop". think of it as a fire, you are feeding your fire less fuel than it needs to keep burning hot, it gets smaller and less hot, the metabolism does the same thing. see, you all think that your BMR remains the same no matter your calorie intake, this is not true, the body will try to match by lowing or raising it. so you will lose fat AND muscle tissue until your BMR is say 1200, then you stop losing and can actually gain/retain body fat and lose more muscle. its sad that no one really understand this.

You will hit a plateau in 2 weeks? Really?

You do realize that your BMR is not your TDEE?

Also, please could you show where eating at a deficit causes a permanent drop in your BMR outside what it would due to weight lose. Also, please show me how you will lose weight if not at a deficit?

And again, please stop making assumptions.

im not talking about "Losing Weight" here, Im talking about a positive shift in body comp. you know, more muscle and less fat AT THE SAME TIME, yes its possible. tell me if calories count, how could I have a 190 pound athlete eating 4,500 calories ( 20 whole egg omelets and piles of bacon at one meal sometimes) right up to a physique show, steadily losing body fat percentage and gaining LBM ? his BMR was prob only 2000-2200 plus his daily TDEE may have been 3500-4000 at most in expenditure. the REASON that you lose FAT while over consuming calories from real food, no sugar, and controlled carbs only, is that our body has a "Calorie conservation" mode and it also has a "calorie wasting" mode. we also burn calories in 5 diff pathways. Mechanical is but 1 path. Thermoregulation is 2, Hormonal (production and utilization of them) is 3, Chemically ( digestion etc) is 4 and Neurological is 5, the more calories we consume the higher our nervous energy usage is, creating more energy for exercise. you are SO fixated on fat loss being your TDEE - intake= fat loss. in reality what has to happen in our body during a deficit is not necessarily fat utilization, you assume that is what happens, what really happens is lower calories lowers TOTAL weight, meaning you lose MUSCLE, other tissues, some fat, and you don't recover as well and also lose bone tissue if done long enough. I'm not talking "Weight loss" once again, Im talking Body Composition change. the excess calories, if healthy, will be utilized for healthy tissue building, not fat storage, thats a very simplistic idea of the body, its not cause and effect. you eat MORE of anything and the body tries to maintain a physiological "Normal" level, like sodium/potassium balance and water, or Oxygen to Carbon Dioxide ratio in the blood controls breathing rate. hell, did you know you will die if you breath PURE oxygen ? it will make you stop breathing due to the "hypoxic drive", until you get a breath with carbon dioxide in it to stimulate the hypoxic drive, O2 in blood gets low, breathing goes up, it gets too high, breathing goes down. you get too hot, you sweat to return to homeostasis, what makes you think calories are any different ? it is ALL controlled by Negative Feedback Mechanisms. true biological actions/reactions are medically known. look into the book "the calorie myth" and he give more than enough medical reference proving my words. as well as "the fat switch" by a doctor or Dr. Jack Kruse's works/website. its all out there.

You are talking about recomping. Then why did you just not say that?.

Are you suggesting that for everyone?

YES !!! why not ? isn't that what EVERYONE is looking for ? less fat more muscle, a fast metabolism and high performance and recovery and the ability to eat WHATEVER and burn it right off ? eating this way, Ive had clients lose FAT even faster than lowering calories ! with the bonus that they don't have to worry about slipping or falling off their "diet" , its just "healthy eating" and abundance of food, its a positive relationship with food, not seeing it as the fat storing enemy. this is how you maintain healthy weight over a LIFETIME not just for 10 or 30 years having to ALWAYS count calories and bull**** that don't matter. THIS is the right way and healthy way.

So, someone significantly overweight should recomp and not actually try to lose weight?

For someone who has been slamming people for not willing to think of anything outside their current ideas and beliefs, the statement "THIS is the right way" is a little hypocritical don't you think?

And again, with the assumptions - maybe not everyone is looking for more muscle.

Also, are you saying that I can eat 6,000 calories and not gain weight?

yes thats what Im saying. hell, phelps ate 12,000 per day of a lot of junk and got leaner, and he didn't burn it all thru exercise, think about it. you have a food warehouse and are in charge of rationing out food to the village, you get a big shipment each day, you give out a bit extra to people….not one day something happens and they only can deliver ONE shipment of food per week to you, are u still gonna give out extra ? or will you be giving out LESS food until shipments are increased ? thats how the body sees fat. I'm trying to put this in terms u will "get". yes, the "right way" to lose weight (they will still lose weight due to more pounds of fat being shed than there are pounds of muscle being built, women build muscle slowly), its not "close minded" for me to say that this is the healthier way, the long term way, because there are only two ways to do this, short term thru caloric deprivation (95% failure rate) or healthy eating of an abundance of food, which is long term sustainable, its how people ate before we started tinkering with "Calories" and screwing things up by over thinking things and sticking our hands in trying to manipulate nature like the arrogant humans we are. Im betting if you eat healthy, limit carb intake to say 300 grams per day (enough to replace lost glycogen but not overflow) and eat as much as u can of everything else, ESP Fats like saturated fat from natural fed animals (healthiest for the human body, being solid at room temp means its the most stable against oxidative damage and free radical production in the body) and the more u eat, the leaner u will get. I have done this on many clients and friends as well.

You know Phelps denies eating 12,000 calories a day, right?
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Either way, he ate MORE than he burnt in exercise, they did a whole video on what he ate daily, even if was half that, he still didn't do 3000 calories worth of exercise…however, he did burn a lot of calories THERMALLY by being in water (removes heat 30times faster than air) for hours on end each day. still….more energy in=more energy out. this is deeper stuff than nutrition 101 here.

sorry to pop your "Calorie bubble" but FAT LOSS (not weight loss) and body COMPOSITION is NOT based on Calories in-calories out. this is a FLAWED system and has NEVER been truly proven in the medical literature, however, they HAVE done studies that show the exact OPPOSITE is true, out of 67,000 + people, split into 5 groups based on their daily calorie intake has shown that the MORE calories they ate, the LESS body fat they carried, and the LESS calories they ate, the MORE body fat they carried. this was done at Harvard BTW. also a recent finding even out on the news, over weight middle school children were shown to eat LESS food than their leaner counterparts. when I was in the Army, we all ate in the dining facility three meals a day, crap food pyramid food, men consumed roughly 4,000 cal/day and women about 3,000 if not more, yet EVERYONE got leaner, except a couple people who tried to "diet" by restricting carbs and calories etc, they kept most of their fat and never performed well like the rest of us. as Long as this Calorie MYTH is perpetuated by so-called "Fitness gurus", who have no actual knowledge of human biology or "negative feedback loops" and how they work in the body, then we will NEVER see an end to Obesity. sure, you can lose weight with calorie reduction, it "Works" short term at best however, 95% of you who "diet" this way, will hit a wall, then fall off this "Diet", and will gain ALL the fat lost plus about an extra 5 pounds of fat more than they started with per "diet cycle". you can ignore my words and what i have given you this day….or you can try something new….EAT LIKE AN ATHLETE TO LOOK LIKE ONE. Not ONE pro athlete or Olympic athlete eats a clean "Diet", they drink Monsters and red bulls and eat cereal and milk and eat like 8000 calories per day, yet they stay LEAN and MUSCULAR like an NFL wide receiver (have you ever seen how they eat?) think about it. there are little to no CrossFit Athletes that "Count Calories" (a practice in futility that is about 25% off anyway on all food labels), they eat maybe 70/30 "Clean" healthy Paleo type foods and some junk food. yet most have 6 packs. hmmmm. why is it that only those looking for fat loss "Diet" and Count Calories and Athletes who look for Performance Eat whatever they want yet get the results that the "fat loss Dieters" seek ? the body is WAY more complicated than "Calories in - Calories Out", sorry, its not something that you can "outsmart" or "fight" or "Force" to do what you want. you must know how the body responds to input so you can work WITH biology not against it.