50 Shades - Great, or the Greatest?

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  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    If your three-year-old can convince 100 million people to buy her work, then she's a great artist.

    I kind of feel the same way about Madonna.

    The difference is between madonna and a three year old, though, is that in thirty years the three year old will have matured a little.

    Madonna certainly has her finger on the pulse of something or other. There are few other popular musicians with her staying power, especially women.
    I really loved the period where she was trying to land the role of Evita. She put out some good music over about two years. I don't know what she sounds like live, though. And there are still a couple things from the very early years I like. I get tired, though, of the need to shock. It stinks of a lack of talent, even if there is actual talent.

    If you've ever seen Lady Gaga before she was Lady Gaga ... She was pretty amazing.

    Every band was always better before it became popular.

    Also Converse sneakers.
  • likitisplit
    likitisplit Posts: 9,420 Member
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    Looks like a great thread to find fellow slaves and Masters! Add me if you live the lifestyle and would like MFP friends who do too lol...

    Which lifestyle do you mean, reading crappy erotic so mundane and poorly written even a desperate housewife can love it?

    I think you are hugely underestimating desperate housewives...and the appeal of the book.

    I have a few degrees in things like English Literature and Women's Studies. Suffice to say, I have a pretty academic understanding of what makes these books popular, with whom and why but that's really not why I am commenting in this thread.

    If I had your depth of knowledge, my children would be able to pick their own college. As we know, talent isn't an issue here.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    No, that doesn't make her a great artist. That simple proves, as I stated, that people are stupid and unoriginal.

    I was discussing a movie, "Under the Skin", with a friend recently. It stars Scarlette Johanssen and is unwatchable tripe. He was confused, because it was so bad, about why it got so many positive critical reviews. So was I, so we got to thinking about it and discussing it.

    Like most art-house "art", it is intentionally unpleasant, unprofessional, uncomfortable, and at turns plodding, droning and boring. Compared to the average film, there is ten times more "T and A" (and quite a bit of erect C) but absolutely no tittilation; a cynical destruction of sex appeal and sexuality. The plot is extremely narrow but the implications and social commentary are quite broad. It leaves plenty of questions unanswered and in so doing engages the 'critic's brain' without actually delivering much.

    It is like a complex flavor profile that isn't so much enjoyable as it is "something to think about". Personally, I like my food to taste good, rather than be complicated.

    Unoriginality has a place! I vote for the flavorful predictability of McDonald's over haute cuisine any day. You cannot live on amuse bouche. Originality for originality's sake is frequently applauded disproportionate to merit. Art that merges populism/accessibilty with complexity is where the true meat lies.

    McRib.

    There is a HUGE playing field between Osetra Caviar and the McRib. There ARE people who can tell a good, compelling story and leave you something to think about (Gone Girl, for instance) while employing top-of-the-line writing.

    I've just always liked the hack, formulaic stuff too. It's like a good pun. Not the best form of humor. But charming and real in its simplicity.
    Except that Gone Girl wasn't very good, either. Better writing, but the story wasn't anywhere near caviar. Olive Garden, maybe.

    She essentially ripped off Rebecca and didn't tell it nearly as well as du Maurier did.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Unoriginality has a place! I vote for the flavorful predictability of McDonald's over haute cuisine any day. You cannot live on amuse bouche. Originality for originality's sake is frequently applauded disproportionate to merit. Art that merges populism/accessibilty with complexity is where the true meat lies.

    McRib.

    A very good post.

    At the end of the day, the essence of the human experience can be captured in half a dozen plot lines, everything else is window dressing. There hasn't been a truly original story written down since the ancient greeks (and even those were derivative, we just can't find much material older than that).
    Notice I didn't comment on the originality of the story, but rather, the originality of the people who enjoyed it.

    Perhaps the real issue is a lack of reading comprehension.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    She essentially ripped off Rebecca and didn't tell it nearly as well as du Maurier did.

    "Rebecca" is over-wrought, over-wordy emo tripe.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    She essentially ripped off Rebecca and didn't tell it nearly as well as du Maurier did.

    "Rebecca" is over-wrought, over-wordy emo tripe.
    But you think 50 Shades is art?
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    Notice I didn't comment on the originality of the story, but rather, the originality of the people who enjoyed it.

    Before you dismiss other people's lack of originality, perhaps you should demonstrate some originality of your own.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    She essentially ripped off Rebecca and didn't tell it nearly as well as du Maurier did.

    "Rebecca" is over-wrought, over-wordy emo tripe.
    But you think 50 Shades is art?

    Speaking of reading comprehension.... :laugh:

    Where did I say that?
  • BinaryPulsar
    BinaryPulsar Posts: 8,927 Member
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    .

    I hear periods play a fundamental role in this novel.

    Can anyone confirm or deny?

    I can't confirm because I didn't read it, but I think I know enough about this book to say that I think you are right.
  • KseRz
    KseRz Posts: 980 Member
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    Looks like a great thread to find fellow slaves and Masters! Add me if you live the lifestyle and would like MFP friends who do too lol...

    How YOU doin? :drinker:

    IN for Master of the Universe

    master-of-his-universe-38341.jpg
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Notice I didn't comment on the originality of the story, but rather, the originality of the people who enjoyed it.

    Before you dismiss other people's lack of originality, perhaps you should demonstrate some originality of your own.
    What makes you think I haven't?
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    Notice I didn't comment on the originality of the story, but rather, the originality of the people who enjoyed it.

    Before you dismiss other people's lack of originality, perhaps you should demonstrate some originality of your own.
    What makes you think I haven't?

    It's self-evident from the bitterness in the posts.

    Personally, I have respect for anyone who writes something that resonates strongly enough that millions of people will actually hand money over to read it. That's a very difficult thing to do.

    Virtually all literature is destined to be forgotten (virtually nobody knows who Du Maurier is, for example) so I don't consider obvious impermanence a compellingly valid criticism.
  • TashChing
    TashChing Posts: 3 Member
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    50 shades is crimes against the BDSM community.

    As a chick that ACTUALLY practices real BDSM, it's a horrific portrayal of the community.
    This book is not about BDSM.
    It's a promotion of rape culture.
    Numerous times he ignores her using the safe word.
    Never does he check on or care about how she's doing or feeling.
    Never does he do after-care to ensure she's mentally and physically OK.

    Trust and understanding is the very foundation of proper BDSM. This is just a guy hyped up on his own power that likes to abuse women. And it's glorifying this treatment TO women. How many women will get themselves into what is essentially an assault and think "Shouldn't I be enjoying this? It's what happened in 50 shades."

    This happened to me. It was horrible and I ended up hurt both mentally and physically.
  • JJofWA
    JJofWA Posts: 15
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    I wonder how many thesauruses E. L. James has been gifted since she published.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    Notice I didn't comment on the originality of the story, but rather, the originality of the people who enjoyed it.

    Before you dismiss other people's lack of originality, perhaps you should demonstrate some originality of your own.
    What makes you think I haven't?

    It's self-evident from the bitterness in the posts.

    Personally, I have respect for anyone who writes something that resonates strongly enough that millions of people will actually hand money over to read it. That's a very difficult thing to do.

    Virtually all literature is destined to be forgotten (virtually nobody knows who Du Maurier is, for example) so I don't consider obvious impermanence a compellingly valid criticism.
    If you think there was any actual (at least mental) effort put into writing these books, you know nothing. You have no idea what goes into writing something good, making real art and not just throwing a Word-A-Day at a page and adding some sex.

    I'm bitter because it's crap and it's being put on a pedestal and being given respect it does not deserve. Millions of people handed over their money for something someone stole from someone else. It's poorly-written, it's plagiarized and 10 years ago wouldn't have seen the light of a professional publishing house.

    Its popularity makes me sad for the state of our world. Talent used to mean something. Now all you have to do is make people horny.
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    Trust and understanding is the very foundation of proper BDSM.

    You're talking about a very safe, sanitized form of BDSM. Without the element of *actual* danger - ie, to hell with "safe words" - it's really just cosplay.

    And there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what floats someone's boat.

    But some folks want more (or at least want to fantasize about wanting more).
  • Mr_Knight
    Mr_Knight Posts: 9,532 Member
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    I'm bitter because it's crap and it's being put on a pedestal and being given respect it does not deserve.

    I get it.

    I really do.

    You're Diane Chambers.
  • rml_16
    rml_16 Posts: 16,414 Member
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    I'm bitter because it's crap and it's being put on a pedestal and being given respect it does not deserve.

    I get it.

    I really do.

    You're Diane Chambers.
    No. I just happen to love and respect literature. That someone who literally writes like a 10-year-old is being given this kind of attention is disgusting.

    And I actually make a living off of this kind of thing. Diane Chambers worked in a bar.
  • HappyathomeMN
    HappyathomeMN Posts: 498 Member
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    Ah, yes. S&M for people who don't know anything about S&M.

    The fact that it is a competent and comprehensive introductory guide to alternative lifestyles is only one small part of the value of the set.

    As a practitioner of some of the fine arts of alternative, these books were deeply condecending. There was nothing comprehensive nor competent in the descriptors of such practices.
  • BattleTaxi
    BattleTaxi Posts: 752 Member
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    I read all the books.. it is written by someone who doesn't seem to know much, if anything, about BDSM culture. The extent to which she talks about it in the book is fantasized at best. Most relationships in text sound abusive, I personally didn't gather that from the book when I read it; however, at the end of the day, it's all about perspective. Someone else may see it as abusive, whereas I did not. I wouldn't say their relationship was normal or healthy though.

    The books are comparable to the genre though. There are lots of authors with similar writing styles and it is easy/quick to read. I wouldn't discredit someones writing/art just because it doesn't meet my personal standards.


    WARNING SPOILER WARNING SPOILER WARNINGGGGG

    I'll probably see the movie, I might enjoy it. My only complaint is that she spent so much time.. S O M U C H T I M E talking about the ReD RoOm.. oOOoOOO sO SEXso tantalize SO EXCITE!!!!..... and then didn't really do anything (in my opinion). That was fking upsetting. I'd actually like my money back just over that.

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