Relatively light people trying to get leaner

How do you know if you are over training?

True overtraining is tough to get into. Generally people are overreaching, which is really the short-term of overtraining. No matter how you slice it though, when you overextend your body's ability (which is dynamic mind you) to manage stress, many things can happen and it'll vary from person to person. But remember, if we can't recover from the stresses we're imposing on our bodies, we're not going to improve. And if this goes on long enough, things can and will head south.

Performance reductions, generally feeling like utter poop, minor aches and pains in the joints, muscle loss, weight loss plateaus, fatigue, delayed recovery between sessions, poor sleep patterns, changes in blood pressure, changes in heart rate, reduced appetite, self esteem issues, colds, amenorrhea, and the list goes on and on.

What manifests will vary from person to person and depend on how "overtrained" they become.

Do you think that my problems might stem from over exercising.

If I had to take a stab at it, which keep in mind is just a stab, I'd say yup. Not over exercise per se, but over stress. How many calories per day are you consuming on average, out of curiosity?

I've general issues with crossfit. I noted them in the crossfit thread which you can read here:

http://www.myfitnesspal.com/topics/show/95227-crossfit

But yeah, what they're describing in the link you referenced doesn't sound like crossfit. Rather, crossfit sounds like what they're describing. Slight distinction, but one I feel is necessary since so many people are thinking crossfit is the be all end all when it's merely one application of the basic principles that any worthy strength training approach applies. And frankly... I see more people applying these principles under the umbrella of crossfit in very poor manners than than most other approaches to strength training.

My last post in the CF thread I linked you to bares repeating:

Anything works for losing fat as long as it establishes a calorie deficit. Period.

Anything works for gaining muscle as long as it provides a tension overload with sufficient volume at the muscle. Period.

A wise man once said, "As to methods there may be a million and then some, but principles are few. The man who grasps principles can successfully select his own methods. The man who tries methods, ignoring principles, is sure to have trouble.”

Crossfit is merely one method of applying the foundational principles that fat loss and muscle gain are built upon. It just so happens that it's an extremely heavily marketed method that many people are flocking too. And truthfully, guided by the right coach, it can be a very reasonable approach.

Unfortunately, there are a lot of bad coaches and "box" owners who espouse CF methods in extremely unsafe manners. I mean, locally here I've witness time and time again olympic lifts being taught to rank novices under extreme states of fatigue, which for anyone who understands olympic lifting knows, is a huge no-no.

Like any other method though... it's about taking the good and weeding out the bad.

I'm sure this post comes across as somewhat snotty. If so, my apologies. Nothing against you at all. Or even CF for that matter. I just deal with a lot of CF zealots who worship CF while not understanding the principles.

Carry on.

According to my GoWear Fit I average about 2200 calories a day burn, and I eat about 1800 calories a day. So I am not starving myself by any means

I will steadily lose for awhile, and then it seems as if everything goes haywire and I put it all back (and maybe a few) and then it starts all over again

Not starving yourself, no. But you're adding to the pot of stress you're imposing on your body. Less nutrition coming in the door means less ability to recover. And when you're doing marathon 2 hour sessions per day, stressing out about plateauing, and whatever else you have going on in the gym and in life and this stuff's paired with a calorie deficit... well...

Competitive athletes can have crazy workloads. But they eat to support it. And they take planned breaks to allow for recovery (periodization).

Who knows... maybe this isn't the case with you. But it's the case with most I encounter in your shoes. Maybe you're the one off who is eating more than you believe or expending less than you believe.

That's funny you mentioned it, because though I go 4x a week to a large gym near me for the weights, I just recently started going to a small independent studio once every 2 weeks for a real trainer (albeit pricey).

If you don't mind, I'd love to know which studio if they have a website. And I'd love to know what they charge. If you'd be more comfortable emailing me this info, that'd be fine.

I noticed you and others mention sporadically throughout this thread that spot training is not realistic. I wonder if you ever came across Dr. Lonnie Lowery's article titled "Spot Reduction is Real: Here's How To Do It – 2/01/2011" on [Male hormone]-Nation? If so, do you agree with the key principles?

To be honest, I've not read the article. I don't go to t-nation at all anymore. I used to spend some time there when the quality of article was better. But their authors get paid to 1) pimp their supps (which is a no no where I come from) and 2) to write new ideas. But the problem is there are no new ideas. So they recreate the old ones over and over again without giving credit to the originals and in doing so, make it seem like what they're writing about is the greatest thing since sliced bread.

It's sad what's happening over there.

Especially considering some of the people they have on staff there - very good folks like Eric Cressey, Mike Roberson, Dave Tate, Dan John, Jim Wendler and a few others. But it's the nature of the business I suppose.

Regarding the article though, after reading through the first paragraph or two, it sounds like good old doc lowery read Lyle McDonald's "Stubborn Fat Solution" and decided to write about it as his own.

There's some truth to being able to preferentially tap into stubborn body fat with very specific modes of cardio and nutrition timing. But it's really only applicable if you're lean trying to get leaner. And more importantly, it's not true spot reduction in that it's not like we're saying you can specifically target the fat on your arm by doing tricep exercises or anything like that.

If you want to learn all about the protocol as well as the physiology behind it, I highly recommend Lyle's Stubborn Fat book.

And here's Lyle's thoughts on the article you referenced:

Sadly, Lonnie seems to be confusing cause and effect here. The fat isn't stubborn because it's cold. It's cold because it has poor blood flow, which is why it's stubborn

I've my 9 month old sleeping right here next to me. It's easy when this young though.

Thanks for the bumps guys. Glad you're able to derive some usefulness from the thread.