The Alternate Day Diet.
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It's not a 'random google scholar search'. It's the list of articles by one author-- Krista Varady-- on one topic-- modified fasting. I would post links to studies from the academic library where I'm on faculty but only the people from that school can access those databases, hence the google.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I refuse to engage with you, I'm sorry. You don't understand the most fundamental basics of information literacy.WalkingAlong wrote: »Here is a link to the google scholar results for 'varady and modified fasting'.
Though now you will scan the abstracts only and say, "She didn't study lbm or dementia! She used poor methods because she studied SAMPLES!" Others have studied other aspects. No, I don't have their names memorized and don't need to for them to exist.
The books on it were written by two MDs and a PhD in nutrition who teaches at a major university. They're not just making stuff up but I'm not going to dig out the books and re-type their bibliographies to help you try to debunk an entire field of study because it's not the diet that appeals to you personally.
Credentials of the authors doesn't really matter, because their studies can still be shotty. E.g. a renowned author could put out a study with some really major new findings, and then universities around the world will try replicating it to no avail but because it is a well respected author, they might assume "oh, we just conducted the study wrong" and no one publishes the null findings. OR if someone DOES publish the null findings, then no one actually reads it. Null findings are pretty rare for journals.
Also your link is a search engine results page. Link to the specific article(s) you are referring to. How are we supposed to know WHICH of these articles you are even referring to?
LOL your argument got shredded and that is what you come back with…??? She actually posted the studies not just a "random google scholar search"…
wow….
As for 'which articles' from that list, most of them refer to health aspects of intermittent fasting, since that was one of the search parameters. She mostly has studied cancer markers and cardiovascular disease. Others have studied cancer, dementia, diabetes and lean body mass effects.
Shredded... lol. It's not 'my argument', folks. I said, "There is evidence to suggest IF can help prevent certain conditions..." Which there is. Analyze the data and make your own conclusions but me not walking you through my own analysis proves or disproves exactly nothing.
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Not in the post that I responded to there. I think you can click 'view quotes' and see which comment I was responding to. Or do you want me to re-post it here so you don't have to click, like with the ADF studies?
It's clear nobody is challenging the validity of personal success with IF. It's your claims outside of your personal experience that are being challenged.WalkingAlong wrote: »
Two of us in this thread reported info about our own results, though if you want to see details you might have to click on a profile or two.I wish one of these posts would be past tense, like "I wanted to lose 10 pounds in 30 days, did IF using method X and did it". Instead we get wishful thinking before the OP even starts.
There are plenty of threads where people discuss their successes with IF. Though there are far more threads that are people just asking about because they're considering it.
How about we just conclude that since I haven't proven someone claimed they never see any IF results posted here that it didn't happen, and then you can claim to be right again since no one convinced you that post existed.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
It's not a 'random google scholar search'. It's the list of articles by one author-- Krista Varady-- on one topic-- modified fasting. I would post links to studies from the academic library where I'm on faculty but only the people from that school can access those databases, hence the google.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I refuse to engage with you, I'm sorry. You don't understand the most fundamental basics of information literacy.WalkingAlong wrote: »Here is a link to the google scholar results for 'varady and modified fasting'.
Though now you will scan the abstracts only and say, "She didn't study lbm or dementia! She used poor methods because she studied SAMPLES!" Others have studied other aspects. No, I don't have their names memorized and don't need to for them to exist.
The books on it were written by two MDs and a PhD in nutrition who teaches at a major university. They're not just making stuff up but I'm not going to dig out the books and re-type their bibliographies to help you try to debunk an entire field of study because it's not the diet that appeals to you personally.
Credentials of the authors doesn't really matter, because their studies can still be shotty. E.g. a renowned author could put out a study with some really major new findings, and then universities around the world will try replicating it to no avail but because it is a well respected author, they might assume "oh, we just conducted the study wrong" and no one publishes the null findings. OR if someone DOES publish the null findings, then no one actually reads it. Null findings are pretty rare for journals.
Also your link is a search engine results page. Link to the specific article(s) you are referring to. How are we supposed to know WHICH of these articles you are even referring to?
LOL your argument got shredded and that is what you come back with…??? She actually posted the studies not just a "random google scholar search"…
wow….
As for 'which articles' from that list, most of them refer to health aspects of intermittent fasting, since that was one of the search parameters. She mostly has studied cancer markers and cardiovascular disease. Others have studied cancer, dementia, diabetes and lean body mass effects.
Shredded... lol. It's not 'my argument', folks. I said, "There is evidence to suggest IF can help prevent certain conditions..." Which there is. Analyze the data and make your own conclusions but me not walking you through my own analysis proves or disproves exactly nothing.
I used my university's database for the articles I referenced. I simply pasted the relevant info from the abstracts, provided journal information, title of the articles, etc. I also looked for articles pertaining to your claim that IF helps with cancer, your links did not? The links in your Google search also did not make mention of preventing conditions. They only discussed obesity.
Because we do not know which specific articles you have gleamed your information from, it is helpful for you to at least post the titles, journal info, etc so that we can at least read the proper abstracts.0 -
I do ADF. Every Mon, Wed & Fri I simply don't eat anything at all. Just drink water. Fasting is great for your health ...real fasting that is ...not where you eat at all..... and weight loss is considered just a bonus.
I eat whatever I want on my other days... 2 loaves of bread, butter on each slice, cheese, pasta....... list goes on.... and not any weight put back on.
I heal faster.... I got a huge blister from walking the other day..... 5hrs later it was gone. Now this was MASSIVE.
I get more energy on the days I don't eat. I can run 10km (6miles) faster on fasting days than I can any other time.
I don't get sick. I sleep better. Better moods. My ADHD is even more manageable than ever before.
I have been fasting like this for almost 2 years now. It's easy to do.0 -
LilyOfTheValley008 wrote: »Still don't understand why people would subject themselves to intermittent fasting instead of a consistent calorie deficit.
I don't have any experience with the IF method myself, but it definitely seems like a diet which could easily spiral someone out of control and lead to binges. But if you'd like to give it a go, it's your decision end of the day
Well for me it was a case of developing an eating disorder from calorie restricting. If anything was over 50cal... I would not eat it. That was not healthy. It also means you don't have to restrict yourself.
THAT would be why people 'subject themselves'... although you make it seem like they are doing something so hard. Come out for a meal with me one time & see who is doing it tough.... you or me. I bet you order based on calories.... I order based on what I want to eat.
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pinkraynedropjacki wrote: »LilyOfTheValley008 wrote: »Still don't understand why people would subject themselves to intermittent fasting instead of a consistent calorie deficit.
I don't have any experience with the IF method myself, but it definitely seems like a diet which could easily spiral someone out of control and lead to binges. But if you'd like to give it a go, it's your decision end of the day
Well for me it was a case of developing an eating disorder from calorie restricting. If anything was over 50cal... I would not eat it. That was not healthy. It also means you don't have to restrict yourself.
THAT would be why people 'subject themselves'... although you make it seem like they are doing something so hard. Come out for a meal with me one time & see who is doing it tough.... you or me. I bet you order based on calories.... I order based on what I want to eat.
This still allows you to be at a caloric intake that is appropriate for your goals, though. I do straight calorie restriction daily, and if I go out to eat then I order both based on what I want to eat AND based on macronutrient/caloric intake. If I know well ahead of time that I plan to go out on the weekend to eat, then I may save up sme calories through the week so I can eat a larger meal. Or, I'll just.. not care because one day doesn't break one's results. So I'll eat something reasonable still, but if I'm over then who cares.
This approach works for me, and for the person you quoted. Your approach works for you for your own personal ED history. Personally for me, going 3 days out of the week without ANY food would make me feel miserable.0 -
My calories on maintenance are only 1165 with no exercise and 1419 exercising 5 days a week, so doing 5:2 or ADF would not be that difficult.
However, if I was going to do either, I would make sure I included a protein shake and vitamin type supplements on my fast days.
It is a short term diet anomaly so I would give it a go, if it doesn't work - return to your normal regime.0 -
WalkingAlong wrote: »
It's not a 'random google scholar search'. It's the list of articles by one author-- Krista Varady-- on one topic-- modified fasting. I would post links to studies from the academic library where I'm on faculty but only the people from that school can access those databases, hence the google.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I refuse to engage with you, I'm sorry. You don't understand the most fundamental basics of information literacy.WalkingAlong wrote: »Here is a link to the google scholar results for 'varady and modified fasting'.
Though now you will scan the abstracts only and say, "She didn't study lbm or dementia! She used poor methods because she studied SAMPLES!" Others have studied other aspects. No, I don't have their names memorized and don't need to for them to exist.
The books on it were written by two MDs and a PhD in nutrition who teaches at a major university. They're not just making stuff up but I'm not going to dig out the books and re-type their bibliographies to help you try to debunk an entire field of study because it's not the diet that appeals to you personally.
Credentials of the authors doesn't really matter, because their studies can still be shotty. E.g. a renowned author could put out a study with some really major new findings, and then universities around the world will try replicating it to no avail but because it is a well respected author, they might assume "oh, we just conducted the study wrong" and no one publishes the null findings. OR if someone DOES publish the null findings, then no one actually reads it. Null findings are pretty rare for journals.
Also your link is a search engine results page. Link to the specific article(s) you are referring to. How are we supposed to know WHICH of these articles you are even referring to?
LOL your argument got shredded and that is what you come back with…??? She actually posted the studies not just a "random google scholar search"…
wow….
As for 'which articles' from that list, most of them refer to health aspects of intermittent fasting, since that was one of the search parameters. She mostly has studied cancer markers and cardiovascular disease. Others have studied cancer, dementia, diabetes and lean body mass effects.
Shredded... lol. It's not 'my argument', folks. I said, "There is evidence to suggest IF can help prevent certain conditions..." Which there is. Analyze the data and make your own conclusions but me not walking you through my own analysis proves or disproves exactly nothing.
you made claims, then could not back up said claims, then someone else posted articles debunking what you claimed = argument shredded….
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
It's not a 'random google scholar search'. It's the list of articles by one author-- Krista Varady-- on one topic-- modified fasting. I would post links to studies from the academic library where I'm on faculty but only the people from that school can access those databases, hence the google.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I refuse to engage with you, I'm sorry. You don't understand the most fundamental basics of information literacy.WalkingAlong wrote: »Here is a link to the google scholar results for 'varady and modified fasting'.
Though now you will scan the abstracts only and say, "She didn't study lbm or dementia! She used poor methods because she studied SAMPLES!" Others have studied other aspects. No, I don't have their names memorized and don't need to for them to exist.
The books on it were written by two MDs and a PhD in nutrition who teaches at a major university. They're not just making stuff up but I'm not going to dig out the books and re-type their bibliographies to help you try to debunk an entire field of study because it's not the diet that appeals to you personally.
Credentials of the authors doesn't really matter, because their studies can still be shotty. E.g. a renowned author could put out a study with some really major new findings, and then universities around the world will try replicating it to no avail but because it is a well respected author, they might assume "oh, we just conducted the study wrong" and no one publishes the null findings. OR if someone DOES publish the null findings, then no one actually reads it. Null findings are pretty rare for journals.
Also your link is a search engine results page. Link to the specific article(s) you are referring to. How are we supposed to know WHICH of these articles you are even referring to?
LOL your argument got shredded and that is what you come back with…??? She actually posted the studies not just a "random google scholar search"…
wow….
As for 'which articles' from that list, most of them refer to health aspects of intermittent fasting, since that was one of the search parameters. She mostly has studied cancer markers and cardiovascular disease. Others have studied cancer, dementia, diabetes and lean body mass effects.
Shredded... lol. It's not 'my argument', folks. I said, "There is evidence to suggest IF can help prevent certain conditions..." Which there is. Analyze the data and make your own conclusions but me not walking you through my own analysis proves or disproves exactly nothing.
you made claims, then could not back up said claims, then someone else posted articles debunking what you claimed = argument shredded….
I don't think she (he?) was making a case or presenting an argument.
It was a post on a message board, that's all.-2 -
I would say try it, you don't need justification from people online because half the time when people post something on the forums for opinions they just end up doing what they want anyways. If you think you can stick to it, try it for your experience.0
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I'm not for or against ADF, if it works for you then go for it. I tried it, and felt horrible on the 500 calorie days. I could not imagine doing this, 2 or 3 times a week, to achieve weight loss. Wasn't for me.0
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Is there something in your profile picture we are missing because you look great, why lose 10 pounds....0
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LilyOfTheValley008 wrote: »Still don't understand why people would subject themselves to intermittent fasting instead of a consistent calorie deficit.
I don't have any experience with the IF method myself, but it definitely seems like a diet which could easily spiral someone out of control and lead to binges. But if you'd like to give it a go, it's your decision end of the day
If you turn your argument round I could ask you why you would subject yourself to seven days a week calorie restriction when you could lose weight while still eating normally several days a week and only restricting two or three days a week.
For me I found it far easier to have two days with a large deficit rather than seven days with a small deficit. It also supported a heavy exercise regime while losing weight, something that is a hard with a constant deficit. Bear in mind that most people who try IF have probably already tried everyday calorie restriction. I was fat for 20 years yo-yo'ing from fat to chubby and back again but found 5:2 really easy. No it's not magic, it's primarily a tool for adherence that suits some people and not others.
Word of caution, those with a history of ED are generally advised not to do IF - there's also others groups who shouldn't do IF.
My issue with the OP's plan is the rate of loss and not the way of eating suggested.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
It's not a 'random google scholar search'. It's the list of articles by one author-- Krista Varady-- on one topic-- modified fasting. I would post links to studies from the academic library where I'm on faculty but only the people from that school can access those databases, hence the google.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I refuse to engage with you, I'm sorry. You don't understand the most fundamental basics of information literacy.WalkingAlong wrote: »Here is a link to the google scholar results for 'varady and modified fasting'.
Though now you will scan the abstracts only and say, "She didn't study lbm or dementia! She used poor methods because she studied SAMPLES!" Others have studied other aspects. No, I don't have their names memorized and don't need to for them to exist.
The books on it were written by two MDs and a PhD in nutrition who teaches at a major university. They're not just making stuff up but I'm not going to dig out the books and re-type their bibliographies to help you try to debunk an entire field of study because it's not the diet that appeals to you personally.
Credentials of the authors doesn't really matter, because their studies can still be shotty. E.g. a renowned author could put out a study with some really major new findings, and then universities around the world will try replicating it to no avail but because it is a well respected author, they might assume "oh, we just conducted the study wrong" and no one publishes the null findings. OR if someone DOES publish the null findings, then no one actually reads it. Null findings are pretty rare for journals.
Also your link is a search engine results page. Link to the specific article(s) you are referring to. How are we supposed to know WHICH of these articles you are even referring to?
LOL your argument got shredded and that is what you come back with…??? She actually posted the studies not just a "random google scholar search"…
wow….
As for 'which articles' from that list, most of them refer to health aspects of intermittent fasting, since that was one of the search parameters. She mostly has studied cancer markers and cardiovascular disease. Others have studied cancer, dementia, diabetes and lean body mass effects.
Shredded... lol. It's not 'my argument', folks. I said, "There is evidence to suggest IF can help prevent certain conditions..." Which there is. Analyze the data and make your own conclusions but me not walking you through my own analysis proves or disproves exactly nothing.
you made claims, then could not back up said claims, then someone else posted articles debunking what you claimed = argument shredded….
I don't think she (he?) was making a case or presenting an argument.
It was a post on a message board, that's all.
ORLY?WalkingAlong wrote: »
There are also valid health reasons for choosing it over a stable daily deficit. Studies have found it preserves more lean mass than daily dieting and leads to improvements in overall health. There is evidence that it can help prevent diabetes, dementia, cardiovascular disease and cancer.
No, totally NOT a claim.
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
It's not a 'random google scholar search'. It's the list of articles by one author-- Krista Varady-- on one topic-- modified fasting. I would post links to studies from the academic library where I'm on faculty but only the people from that school can access those databases, hence the google.WalkingAlong wrote: »
I refuse to engage with you, I'm sorry. You don't understand the most fundamental basics of information literacy.WalkingAlong wrote: »Here is a link to the google scholar results for 'varady and modified fasting'.
Though now you will scan the abstracts only and say, "She didn't study lbm or dementia! She used poor methods because she studied SAMPLES!" Others have studied other aspects. No, I don't have their names memorized and don't need to for them to exist.
The books on it were written by two MDs and a PhD in nutrition who teaches at a major university. They're not just making stuff up but I'm not going to dig out the books and re-type their bibliographies to help you try to debunk an entire field of study because it's not the diet that appeals to you personally.
Credentials of the authors doesn't really matter, because their studies can still be shotty. E.g. a renowned author could put out a study with some really major new findings, and then universities around the world will try replicating it to no avail but because it is a well respected author, they might assume "oh, we just conducted the study wrong" and no one publishes the null findings. OR if someone DOES publish the null findings, then no one actually reads it. Null findings are pretty rare for journals.
Also your link is a search engine results page. Link to the specific article(s) you are referring to. How are we supposed to know WHICH of these articles you are even referring to?
LOL your argument got shredded and that is what you come back with…??? She actually posted the studies not just a "random google scholar search"…
wow….
As for 'which articles' from that list, most of them refer to health aspects of intermittent fasting, since that was one of the search parameters. She mostly has studied cancer markers and cardiovascular disease. Others have studied cancer, dementia, diabetes and lean body mass effects.
Shredded... lol. It's not 'my argument', folks. I said, "There is evidence to suggest IF can help prevent certain conditions..." Which there is. Analyze the data and make your own conclusions but me not walking you through my own analysis proves or disproves exactly nothing.
I used my university's database for the articles I referenced. I simply pasted the relevant info from the abstracts, provided journal information, title of the articles, etc. I also looked for articles pertaining to your claim that IF helps with cancer, your links did not? The links in your Google search also did not make mention of preventing conditions. They only discussed obesity.
Because we do not know which specific articles you have gleamed your information from, it is helpful for you to at least post the titles, journal info, etc so that we can at least read the proper abstracts.
Thank you!
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Way too quick with that little to lose, so no. Why not try something more sustainable, like eating at a caloric deficit?0
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I tried the up day down day diet
all i got out of it was 2 eating disorders and i gained weight
its probly different for everyone0 -
But in regards to OP, I did do this diet for a bit. But I'm also on medication (that is NOT for weightloss purposes) that has demolished my appetite, so I need to remind myself to eat regularly. But for the amount you need to lose, it's going to be difficult either way because you don't have a lot left.0
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WalkingAlong wrote: »
It does seem that way but it's been fairly well studied and people doing ADF and not restricting on their 'feast days' tend to eat about 110% of their maintenance calories and that's all they want. So they don't binge. They also don't find the modified fast days difficult after an initial adjustment period. So it's like only dieting every other day.LilyOfTheValley008 wrote: »Still don't understand why people would subject themselves to intermittent fasting instead of a consistent calorie deficit.
I don't have any experience with the IF method myself, but it definitely seems like a diet which could easily spiral someone out of control and lead to binges. But if you'd like to give it a go, it's your decision end of the day
I also find it helped me reacquaint myself with true hunger and fullness sensations and to be more sensitive to portion size and food choices overall.
There are also valid health reasons for choosing it over a stable daily deficit. Studies have found it preserves more lean mass than daily dieting and leads to improvements in overall health. There is evidence that it can help prevent diabetes, dementia, cardiovascular disease and cancer.
They do recommend you not try it if you have a history of eating disorders.
I'm not skeptical of the effectiveness in terms of weight loss but it just seems like an unhealthy relationship with food to me (repeatedly restricting then feasting on large quantities?) and they may not binge during, but people I've known who've tried ADF have quit and gone back to their old habits most of the time because they just can't realistically fit it into their lifestyle.
As for the health reasons, is there really evidence that it is significantly more beneficial than simply eating healthily at a consistent deficit? I find it kind of hard to believe studies have shown it leads to better overall health and really has any ability to preserve lean mass...
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