Guide to making claims based on experience

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Replies

  • Wronkletoad
    Wronkletoad Posts: 368 Member
    and herr löffel, when they do fail, they're just walking along with a longtimeterp...

  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 623 Member
    edited November 2014
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 623 Member
    and herr löffel, when they do fail, they're just walking along with a longtimeterp...

    No, they are probably exercising and trying to find out what works best for them with help and advice from people who have been through similar experiences and can provide potentially very useful advice!
  • DeWoSa
    DeWoSa Posts: 496 Member
    edited November 2014
    herrspoons wrote: »
    There are two kinds of people in this world: Ones who take the time to understand how things work, and people who fail.

    Please cite your source. heh heh

    No, they are probably exercising and trying to find out what works best for them with help and advice from people who have been through similar experiences and can provide potentially very useful advice!

    I'm with you terp.

    A lot of people are right, but they aren't the least bit helpful.
  • DeWoSa
    DeWoSa Posts: 496 Member
    edited November 2014
    del double post
  • Wronkletoad
    Wronkletoad Posts: 368 Member
    and dr oz and oprah and food babe are all thankful for your beliefs too. Herballife. HCG folks.

    exactly why "evolution" and "legitimate rape" are actual political discussions in the US...

    lolz.
  • sijomial
    sijomial Posts: 19,762 Member
    Guide to making claims based on experience
    OP - you missed the age qualification. No-one under the age of 54(*) is allowed to make any claims based on experience.
    * = this number may be subject to annual review and adjustment.
  • JoRocka
    JoRocka Posts: 17,552 Member
    heh heh.
    if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site.

    I think this is a great point. A lot OPs are asking for help losing weight, and a lot of people are responding calorie in < energy out, but the OP is really asking how did you deal with 1. cravings 2. eating out 3. emotional eating 4. grazing after dinner 5. fitting low-cal meals into a busy lifestyle 6. changing a lifestyle to one more healthy 7. weird issues that are popping up 8. exercise 9. understanding body mass and total energy expenditures 10. etc etc etc.

    then they need to ask THOSE the questions they actually have after first researching them and not finding a satisfactory answer.

    Don't ask a generic question- then get irritated by an answer when that wasn't really your question to begin with- you cannot put that on the community for doing a "bad job answer questions" when the intent wasn't properly expressed.

    We aren't mind readers.

    If you ask how to lose weight- it's going to be eat at a calorie deficit- if you're asking how to daily DEAL with a calorie deficit- that's a completely and wildly different answer per person.

    Details are important.

  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,785 Member
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.
  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 623 Member
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.
  • stealthq
    stealthq Posts: 4,298 Member
    dbmata wrote: »
    My eyes glaze over when I get a scientific research link shoved at me.
    I'm much more interested in hearing from real life people with real life experiences :D

    it's attitudes like that that make parents not vaccinate their children and listen to Jenny McCarthy instead.

    but, but, thimerosal and mercury!

    Funny thing that Jenny McCarthy, she found it was hurting her brand, and she stepped away from the anti-vaxxing message.

    Smart of her, from a marketing standpoint.

    Wish she'd never brought it up - I'm tired of people thinking I'm one of those dimwits when I complain about having a hard time finding the thimoseral-free flu vax.

    Some of us are sensitive to the stuff and would rather not have a sore, swollen shoulder for three days, dammit.

    Back on topic, I find it interesting that so many people are willing to put greater weight on a one-off anecdote ( on an internet message board, no less! ) than in research done with >1 participants. This assumes the research is well-designed and executed, because if not, I completely understand disregarding the research.

    Must be a psychological thing - something about making a 'connection' with the person you're chatting with online, maybe.
  • RGv2
    RGv2 Posts: 5,785 Member
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.

    LOL....can I see where you read that? That's the first I've heard that..........ever.
  • cardbucfan
    cardbucfan Posts: 9,953 Member
    edited November 2014
    FredDoyle wrote: »
    ndj1979 wrote: »
    I think that science and anecdote can both have a place on these boards. The problem becomes when people confuse one for the other.

    yes, or use flawed personal experience as evidence…

    Like " i cut all sugar and lost weight; hence, sugar is bad for me and made me gain weight"…no, because you can eat sugar and lose weight …

    *shrugs*

    if someone experiences something personally, how can it be flawed for them?

    Really? For ages I always drove a blue truck and was overweight, but when I got a new white one I had no problem losing weight. True story.
    Conclusion, blue vehicles are worse for weight loss.

    Hmmm, when I switched from my gold old SUV to my new white SUV I gained all my weight back! Eureka!! My son will be so happy to switch cars with me! And that just proves that gold vehicles are superior to white ones.
  • Azdak
    Azdak Posts: 8,281 Member
    and herr löffel, when they do fail, they're just walking along with a longtimeterp...

    No, they are probably exercising and trying to find out what works best for them with help and advice from people who have been through similar experiences and can provide potentially very useful advice!

    And without any academic framework, they are just as likely to be random dilettantes giving out useless and often dangerous "advice".

    It's not an "either/or" issue. "Experience" does not have inherent superiority; neither does academic learning.
  • ThePhoenixIsRising
    ThePhoenixIsRising Posts: 781 Member
    What if you read something at some point and acted on it in your life. You don't remember where you got the original idea but have the anecdotal experience to share. Can you say you read such and such and your experience was A,B,C, or do you have to leave out the fact that the idea came from another source since you can't produce the source?
  • SingRunTing
    SingRunTing Posts: 2,605 Member
    JoRocka wrote: »
    heh heh.
    if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site.

    I think this is a great point. A lot OPs are asking for help losing weight, and a lot of people are responding calorie in < energy out, but the OP is really asking how did you deal with 1. cravings 2. eating out 3. emotional eating 4. grazing after dinner 5. fitting low-cal meals into a busy lifestyle 6. changing a lifestyle to one more healthy 7. weird issues that are popping up 8. exercise 9. understanding body mass and total energy expenditures 10. etc etc etc.

    then they need to ask THOSE the questions they actually have after first researching them and not finding a satisfactory answer.

    Don't ask a generic question- then get irritated by an answer when that wasn't really your question to begin with- you cannot put that on the community for doing a "bad job answer questions" when the intent wasn't properly expressed.

    We aren't mind readers.

    If you ask how to lose weight- it's going to be eat at a calorie deficit- if you're asking how to daily DEAL with a calorie deficit- that's a completely and wildly different answer per person.

    Details are important.

    This x1,000,000

    Don't assume that people understand that you want answers to questions that you aren't asking. If you are getting the CICO answer and you were looking for more of the "well, I try to keep myself busy, or I save calories for a sweet snack everyday" type of answers, you asked the wrong question. We can only answer the question that we are given. (Also, don't get mad if its not what you want to hear. People have different experiences and they aren't always what we want to hear)

    To address the overall thread: both types of information are important, the experience information and the science information.

    Experience can help others learn how to adjust their lives and cope with aspects of a healthier lifestyle. It's extremely important.

    Science can ensure that you understand the implications of your decisions and can help guide you to better ones. It's also extremely important.

    If you make claims using research, you will be asked to post that research. I don't think that's unreasonable. For example (apparently I'm in a "poke it with a stick" mood today, but IDGAF), if you claim that research shows that IF can reduce the rate of cancer, you should provide that research. Quite frankly, if I read a study that verified that claim, I would consider switching to IF, because, who doesn't want to reduce their risk of cancer? If you can provide valid scientific information to help people make healthier decisions, you should. I want to save everyone from cancer that I can. If I saw a study that claimed that anything reduced the risk of cancer, I'd post it everywhere I could. And then would participate in a discussion on that study to understand the implications of it.

    But all in all:
    3cd8a33a.png
  • ithrowconfetti
    ithrowconfetti Posts: 451 Member
    Since everyone is here for advice and support on whatever their weight or body composition goals are, i feel it very important to know about actual real life instances and what may or may not have worked for people. If there was not a scientific study done on how you were successful, it's totally okay to provide an opinion of what works best for you. Ultimately what works for some people may or may not work for others, and if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site. Continuing to provide personal and anecdotal evidence provides real life example and servesas a very positive motivator for many of us. And also because sometimes Lifes, not just Sciences. But always Maths! :)

    OP, I think the issue is that claims are valid, when backed by scientific studies, (which, on this site to be credible, usually involve human subjects). It's up to the reader to be discerning of what studies he/she choose to believe, take away from each study, and then determine how that can affect his/her lifestyle. Of course, opinions are welcome, but not every opinion can be made a valid claim for others to follow.
  • mommyrunning
    mommyrunning Posts: 495 Member
    heh heh.
    if we all knew the secret none of us would be on this site.

    I think this is a great point. A lot OPs are asking for help losing weight, and a lot of people are responding calorie in < energy out, but the OP is really asking how did you deal with 1. cravings 2. eating out 3. emotional eating 4. grazing after dinner 5. fitting low-cal meals into a busy lifestyle 6. changing a lifestyle to one more healthy 7. weird issues that are popping up 8. exercise 9. understanding body mass and total energy expenditures 10. etc etc etc.

    Very good point.

  • longtimeterp
    longtimeterp Posts: 623 Member
    RGv2 wrote: »
    RGv2 wrote: »
    ana3067 wrote: »

    *Nisbett, R. E., & Masuda, T. (2003). Culture and point of view. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 100, 11163-11175.
    2. *Masuda, T. & Nisbett, R. E. (2001). Attending holistically vs. analytically: Comparing the context sensitivity of Japanese and Americans. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 81, 922-934.
    3. 2. *Chua, H. F., Boland, J. E., & Nisbett, R. E. (2005). Cultural Variation in eye-movements during scene perception. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences of the United States of America, 102, 12629-12633.
    *Masuda, T., Russell, M. J., Chen, Y. Y., Hioki, K., Caplan, J. B. (2014). N400 incongruity effect in an episodic memory task reveals different strategies for handling irrelevant contextual information for Japanese than European Canadians. Cognitive Neuroscience, 5, 15-25.
    *Masuda, T., Wang, H., Ishii, K., & Ito, K. (2012). Do surrounding figures’ emotions affect the judgment of target figure’s emotion?: Comparing the patterns of eye-movement between European-Canadians, Asian-Canadians, Asian International Students, and Japanese. Frontier in Integrative Neuroscience, 6:72. doi: 10.3389/fnint.2012.00072.
    *Imada, T., Carlson, S. M., & Itakura, S. (2013). East-West cultural differences in context-sensitivity are evident in early childhood. Developmental Science, 16, 198-208.

    (the papers btw are all pretty interesting, I have been reading them for my cultural psychology methods class)

    The gym is really pretty interesting, i've been lifting to benefit my fitness. And i've learned a lot more about diet, exercise, and a healthy lifestyle by DOING rather than reading about it. I feel the benefits of barbell lifting and arc training far outweigh the gains of page turning, especially for anything this site is concerned with.

    So you don't believe in researching to learn more about and develop your understanding.

    Doh'kay....sounds good.

    I never said that, i do plenty of research, and i even post study links. However a personal example is that i learned more about fasted cardio by doing it then by reading about how it would eat away at all my muscles for fuel, which it doesn't.

    LOL....can I see where you read that? That's the first I've heard that..........ever.

    Really? Quick search...

    http://www.mensfitness.com/training/build-muscle/should-you-do-cardio-empty-stomach

    http://www.jimstoppani.com/home/articles/fasted-cardio-in-the-morning?preview

    http://www.t-nation.com/training/fasted-cardio-eats-muscle