i'm eating more but still losing weight
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Still waiting for the answer as to how food has zero nutritional value.
As well as seeing support for the statement "Soda is linked to prostate, processed meats to heart disease, diet soda to obesity and a whole slew of problems"
And that bb'ers all eat clean
And that "fast food' is going to leave you riddled with cancer and disease
And that broccoli is more beneficial than a "damn brownie" in every situation
And what is toxic 'food' - and how is it toxic
Also would love to know why its better to consume pesticides than eat junk all the time.
As well as the repeated question as who is suggesting to eat 'junk food' all the time.
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MattCronin550 wrote: »
Which mean, you are not hitting your macros and not applying IIFYM (especially as the one you are missing is arguably the most important one for MPS)0 -
I'd like you to show me a diet with 100% "*kitten*" foods that hit a a good macro/micro split.0
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I'd bet if you were able to hit all your micros and macros while maintaining a low BF%, I'd guess you'd be healthy for a long time. Regardless of how you met them. Junk food or healthy foods0
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You can eat a couple pieces of chicken and a protein shake and hit your protein macros. Fat and carbohydrates macros can be filled with various processed foods. You guys act like you're scientists with all the facts. I'm not saying IIFYM is 100% wrong, but in the long term, it can pay off to not eat garbage. And there's no need to put garbage and *kitten* foods in quotes, we all know there's no such thing as a clean or dirty food. But you get my point.0
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Several others may not agree with some of the things I've stated. But like I said I don't think too many others (except for a couple in the "sweets while bulking" thread) take what I post as being that bad as you and ndj make it out to be.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Ok. I think what happens in some cases (like this morning and again now) is that when the general consensus is challenged, and things are viewed the way I see it, I can't resist jumping in. That being said, it kind of seems like from the responses and other posts I've seen from you and ndj, you guys make it seem like the two of you "own" this part of the forum in terms of what should get posted. I mean, it just seems to me like if you both had the power to do so, I'd be banned from this section, while most everyone else would be ok with the things I've posted.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Maybe I should have worded it better. In isolation, the general thought process on here is that unhealthy and healthy food does not exist.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I was helping devilboy1592 understand the general thought process of how things go in here in regards to the way food is viewed.
Why are you still in this bulking forum? I don't get it.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of the members here don't believe in food being "healthy" or "unhealthy".deviboy1592 wrote: »
You can't help someone when you don't understand the concepts yourself. That's not hard to understand but with the way the back and forth conversations between you and members here go I'm not surprised you can't understand that.
Enough already. You are always criticizing or debating what is said in here. Then you try to defend it but backtrack. The problem is you do understand a lot if the details that go into this game. That becomes a problem when you try and give advice or debate points. One smart thing to do is to ask questions, lurk, study, learn. Then gradually immerse yourself in the debates.
My biggest issue with you is you wander this Weight gain forum with ideas and concepts but you can't bulk, you don't bulk and you can't remove the tunnel vision when it comes to absorbing the information but yet you continuously make threads longer with the same stuff. The other thread from this morning that made it 5 pages and as soon as I went in it and saw it was just a short time frame I knew you would be all up in it.
Yes you're right. You would be banned. And it's not because you challenge the general consensus. It's that you challenge the general consensus with nonsense. You really think everyone is ok with what you post? Really? That's just delusional man.
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Well when it comes to calorie intake, it's about those reasons I gave in the sparta thread. My unusual training setup is another issue, which is what Sarah is helping me with.JeffseekingV wrote: »ForecasterJason wrote: »
Ok. I think what happens in some cases (like this morning and again now) is that when the general consensus is challenged, and things are viewed the way I see it, I can't resist jumping in. That being said, it kind of seems like from the responses and other posts I've seen from you and ndj, you guys make it seem like the two of you "own" this part of the forum in terms of what should get posted. I mean, it just seems to me like if you both had the power to do so, I'd be banned from this section, while most everyone else would be ok with the things I've posted.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Maybe I should have worded it better. In isolation, the general thought process on here is that unhealthy and healthy food does not exist.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I was helping devilboy1592 understand the general thought process of how things go in here in regards to the way food is viewed.
Why are you still in this bulking forum? I don't get it.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of the members here don't believe in food being "healthy" or "unhealthy".deviboy1592 wrote: »
You can't help someone when you don't understand the concepts yourself. That's not hard to understand but with the way the back and forth conversations between you and members here go I'm not surprised you can't understand that.
Enough already. You are always criticizing or debating what is said in here. Then you try to defend it but backtrack. The problem is you do understand a lot if the details that go into this game. That becomes a problem when you try and give advice or debate points. One smart thing to do is to ask questions, lurk, study, learn. Then gradually immerse yourself in the debates.
My biggest issue with you is you wander this Weight gain forum with ideas and concepts but you can't bulk, you don't bulk and you can't remove the tunnel vision when it comes to absorbing the information but yet you continuously make threads longer with the same stuff. The other thread from this morning that made it 5 pages and as soon as I went in it and saw it was just a short time frame I knew you would be all up in it.
If what you understand about food is true, why can't you gain weight?
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MattCronin550 wrote: »Fitting your macros with whatever food you can doesn't affect your body composition, obviously. Calories in vs. calories out. But here's what annoys me: Eating *kitten* foods regardless of whether or not they fit your macros is bad for your health. Yeah you lost 20 lbs but guarantee half these people running this type of diet 100% of the time are gonna eventually run into problems. Too high of sodium, cholesterol, trans fat and refined sugars ARE bad for you. Obviously the science behind IIFYM is fact, but trying to be a generally healthy human being isn't gonna benefit from eating food high in all the stuff you don't want, regardless of macros.
The problem with this commonly held argument against flexible dieting is that this neglects context.
People who are correctly applying IIFYM are sticking to a diet composed "mostly" of nutrient dense and minimally refined foods. Then they're allowing 10 to 20% of total calories to come from "whatever they want".
If you're going to claim that the presence of some discretionary foods (perhaps excluding artificial trans fats since IIRC they are destructive in very very small doses) among a nutrient dense diet is inferior or problematic, you'd need to establish doses at which those problems occur.
If you want to claim that hitting macros with a diet composed of 100% junk food can be problematic for health I'd at least entertain that argument, but the issue is that this isn't IIFYM/flexible dieting. This is the strawman version that people argue against.0 -
MattCronin550 wrote: »You can eat a couple pieces of chicken and a protein shake and hit your protein macros. Fat and carbohydrates macros can be filled with various processed foods. You guys act like you're scientists with all the facts. I'm not saying IIFYM is 100% wrong, but in the long term, it can pay off to not eat garbage. And there's no need to put garbage and *kitten* foods in quotes, we all know there's no such thing as a clean or dirty food. But you get my point.
IMHO, long term, it's looking like not being overweight with high BF% is what is ultimately the better choice vs the food you eat. the foods you eat might MAKE you overweight and have a high BF% but it goes to the amount you eat.
I'd guess if you meet your macro/micros, it wouldn't matter much what you ate0 -
MattCronin550 wrote: »You can eat a couple pieces of chicken and a protein shake and hit your protein macros. Fat and carbohydrates macros can be filled with various processed foods. You guys act like you're scientists with all the facts. I'm not saying IIFYM is 100% wrong, but in the long term, it can pay off to not eat garbage. And there's no need to put garbage and *kitten* foods in quotes, we all know there's no such thing as a clean or dirty food. But you get my point.
I already mentioned this in my previous reply but it depends on how much "garbage" you're eating.
Even in a surplus I bet most people cannot eat a diet composed of entirely junk food minus some chicken and whey because satiety would plummet.
Perhaps a few people could, but not the majority and this would be even less feasible in caloric maintenance or a deficit.0 -
I seem to be having to drop this into threads a lot this year:
http://dynamicduotraining.com/ask-the-experts-round-table-discussions/15-nutrition-myths-you-want-to-knowallow-the-experts-to-tell/
Eric Helms-
The Myth of “Good” and “Bad” Foods
I think one of the most pervasive, and possibly detrimental mind sets is that of seeing foods as either “good” or “bad”. This is a rather seductive way of looking at foods because it is simplistic. Look at a food, identify it as friend or foe, and then go with the “good” option not the “bad” option and you’ll be healthy, fit, lean and sexy! It’s that easy! But of course, that’s not the case.
One of the problems with this mindset is that it fits perfectly into the behavioral paradigm that leads to obesity in the first place; the all or nothing mindset. One thing I find to be a commonality among folks who struggle with weight gain and permanent weight loss, is that they lose the middle ground. They bounce between being “on the diet” and falling off the band wagon and lapsing into cycles of overeating. We have no problem losing weight, we have trouble keeping the weight off. We crash diet and lose 20-30lbs in a few months, and then it all comes back on when we can’t maintain the crash diet approach.
All or nothing Black and white mindsets ignore the concepts of magnitude and frequency which are all important when it comes to long term change. Of course 1g of sugar eaten every 2 weeks will not have the same effect as 100g of sugar eaten daily, but we love to label sugar as “bad”. Even water consumed in massive excess can lead to hyponatremia and death. Sugar is not good or bad, and neither is water, they just are what they are and without attention to magnitude or frequency, labels like “good” or “bad” are misleading.
We tend to be overly reductionist in our approach to nutrition. Originally, we believed fat was the singular cause of the obesity epidemic. When the low fat craze had no impact on preventing the worsening of the obesity epidemic, we went the way of the low carb craze, and folks started consuming fat with abandon. When this didn’t turn the trend of waist expansion around, we decided that it’s not just fat or carbs, the causes are specific types of carbs and fat; specifically sugar, high fructose corn syrup and trans fat are the culprits!
The need to blame singular nutrients highlights the all or nothing, black or white attitude that is in and of itself one of the roots of unhealthy eating behavior and consequently obesity. Again, it comes down to seeking balance. The concept of balance in nutrition is inclusive of the concepts of magnitude and frequency that are needed for long term lifestyle change. Balance recognizes that it is not the small piece of chocolate that you had that wasn’t on your diet plan that was the problem, it was the carton of ice cream you had afterward!
The meal plan foods are “good”, and a piece of chocolate is “bad” and once you’d crossed over from “good” to “bad”, you said: “Screw it! I already blew it, I might as well just have cookie dough ice cream until I puke!” That is the all too common result of the all or nothing mindset in action. On the other hand, a balanced approach realizes that a small piece of chocolate is only ~100 calories, and will make a minuscule difference in terms of weight loss over time. In fact, a balanced meal plan might even allow for a daily range of calories, so that the following day could be reduced by 100 calories. Even more shockingly, a balanced meal plan might even include a piece of chocolate (blasphemy I know)!
There are truly VERY few foods that are actively bad for you. Most of the foods that we identify as “bad”, are simply low or devoid of micro-nutrients, minerals, fiber and other things like phytochemicals and protein that can be beneficial for you. These foods only become a problem when they occur frequently and with enough magnitude (frequency and magnitude!) to replace a significant enough portion of your diet that you become deficient in beneficial nutrients.
Once our nutrient needs are met, we don’t get extra credit for eating more nutritious food! It’s not as though we have a health food critic living in our esophagus that has a control box that he switches from “get leaner and healthier” to “get fatter and unhealthier” every time he spots “good” or “bad” food. Thus, a healthy diet should be inclusionary vs. exclusionary; focused around including healthy foods, not excluding “unhealthy” foods. Meet your nutrient needs, and feel free to eat things that you may have traditionally seen as “bad” in moderation; so that you are still meeting your allotted caloric intake for your weight loss goals. Don’t make the mistake of looking at foods as “good” or “bad!” Good diets can include “bad” foods and bad diets can include “good” foods. Don’t get too caught up with what you have for lunch, because it is not a singular choice that will determine the success of your health and fitness goals, it is the balanced lifestyle you commit to long term!
bookmarked so I can refer to for the next "bad" food thread...0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »
Why are you still in this bulking forum? I don't get it.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of the members here don't believe in food being "healthy" or "unhealthy".deviboy1592 wrote: »
Well he does want to gain weight. So that explains that. Why he isn't listening to logic is another story. ie.. eat a damn pizza already!
its the same story over and over with this guy …good lord…
I think he is a troll...0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Maybe I should have worded it better. In isolation, the general thought process on here is that unhealthy and healthy food does not exist.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I was helping devilboy1592 understand the general thought process of how things go in here in regards to the way food is viewed.
Why are you still in this bulking forum? I don't get it.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of the members here don't believe in food being "healthy" or "unhealthy".deviboy1592 wrote: »
You can't help someone when you don't understand the concepts yourself. That's not hard to understand but with the way the back and forth conversations between you and members here go I'm not surprised you can't understand that.
do you eat in a vacuum?0 -
boost/ensure, juice, ice cream(ben and jerry's!!).
that is all.0 -
JeffseekingV wrote: »MattCronin550 wrote: »You can eat a couple pieces of chicken and a protein shake and hit your protein macros. Fat and carbohydrates macros can be filled with various processed foods. You guys act like you're scientists with all the facts. I'm not saying IIFYM is 100% wrong, but in the long term, it can pay off to not eat garbage. And there's no need to put garbage and *kitten* foods in quotes, we all know there's no such thing as a clean or dirty food. But you get my point.
IMHO, long term, it's looking like not being overweight with high BF% is what is ultimately the better choice vs the food you eat. the foods you eat might MAKE you overweight and have a high BF% but it goes to the amount you eat.
I'd guess if you meet your macro/micros, it wouldn't matter much what you ate
I'm not speaking in terms of weight or bodyfat. I'm speaking in terms of health. If you meet your macros/micros you're golden in terms of body composition. I count my macros/micros and I hit them every day. I'm not the leanest guy out there, and probably never will be and I'm okay with that. My goals are to be big and strong. But I'd like to get there in the healthiest way possible ie: as little refined sugar and trans fat as possible, and while keeping sodium and cholesterol levels in check.0 -
ForecasterJason wrote: »
Ok. I think what happens in some cases (like this morning and again now) is that when the general consensus is challenged, and things are viewed the way I see it, I can't resist jumping in. That being said, it kind of seems like from the responses and other posts I've seen from you and ndj, you guys make it seem like the two of you "own" this part of the forum in terms of what should get posted. I mean, it just seems to me like if you both had the power to do so, I'd be banned from this section, while most everyone else would be ok with the things I've posted.ForecasterJason wrote: »
Maybe I should have worded it better. In isolation, the general thought process on here is that unhealthy and healthy food does not exist.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I was helping devilboy1592 understand the general thought process of how things go in here in regards to the way food is viewed.
Why are you still in this bulking forum? I don't get it.ForecasterJason wrote: »
I know it sounds crazy, but a lot of the members here don't believe in food being "healthy" or "unhealthy".deviboy1592 wrote: »
You can't help someone when you don't understand the concepts yourself. That's not hard to understand but with the way the back and forth conversations between you and members here go I'm not surprised you can't understand that.
Enough already. You are always criticizing or debating what is said in here. Then you try to defend it but backtrack. The problem is you do understand a lot if the details that go into this game. That becomes a problem when you try and give advice or debate points. One smart thing to do is to ask questions, lurk, study, learn. Then gradually immerse yourself in the debates.
My biggest issue with you is you wander this Weight gain forum with ideas and concepts but you can't bulk, you don't bulk and you can't remove the tunnel vision when it comes to absorbing the information but yet you continuously make threads longer with the same stuff. The other thread from this morning that made it 5 pages and as soon as I went in it and saw it was just a short time frame I knew you would be all up in it.
First, I don't own anything and its a public forum so you can post where you want.
Second, when you post things that don't make sense then you are going to get called on it and asked to clarify.
Third, this is the one forum on here that I generally enjoy because it does not have all the sugar addiction, detox, i can't eat 1200 calories, clean eating, paleo, BS that goes on in 99% of the other forums, and the people are generally knowledgable and I hate to see it turn into just a regular MFP form…
Fourth - your constant whining an complaining about "skinny arms" "can't bulk" bla bla bla ..is just getting tiresome man. Good lord either eat more food, pick up heavier weights, and put some mass on, or just be happy with what you are doing now. I mean sarah even offered to help you and as far as I can tell you are still on the "woe is me I can't bulk boat"…if you won't take advice from her then you are freaking doomed man...
but don't come up in here and try to give advice on something you really do not fully understand and have never even tried…
if that is harsh, I apologize but I have one gear and it is usually highly intense….0 -
MattCronin550 wrote: »JeffseekingV wrote: »MattCronin550 wrote: »You can eat a couple pieces of chicken and a protein shake and hit your protein macros. Fat and carbohydrates macros can be filled with various processed foods. You guys act like you're scientists with all the facts. I'm not saying IIFYM is 100% wrong, but in the long term, it can pay off to not eat garbage. And there's no need to put garbage and *kitten* foods in quotes, we all know there's no such thing as a clean or dirty food. But you get my point.
IMHO, long term, it's looking like not being overweight with high BF% is what is ultimately the better choice vs the food you eat. the foods you eat might MAKE you overweight and have a high BF% but it goes to the amount you eat.
I'd guess if you meet your macro/micros, it wouldn't matter much what you ate
I'm not speaking in terms of weight or bodyfat. I'm speaking in terms of health. If you meet your macros/micros you're golden in terms of body composition. I count my macros/micros and I hit them every day. I'm not the leanest guy out there, and probably never will be and I'm okay with that. My goals are to be big and strong. But I'd like to get there in the healthiest way possible ie: as little refined sugar and trans fat as possible, and while keeping sodium and cholesterol levels in check.
Yes. IMHO if you hit your micros/macros, keep your BF% in check, that will be the overwhelmingly largest factor in keeping in good health (this assumes some type of minimal exercise). This is why I mentioned it. Regardless of how you achieve the above. ie.. bad food, good food etc....0
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