Male body pressure becoming the same as women?
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The structure is set up for the non-powerful to be consumables for those with more power. In general, but not always, it's the straight white male.
Wanna see what the power structure really is? Step out of your assigned role in front of someone who has the power to sanction you for it. It's enlightening. But kinda like the matrix, once you see it, you can't not see it.0 -
yopeeps025 wrote: »
I much prefer expecting adults to act like adults, as opposed to socially maladjusted, immature dip wads who have an over inflated sense of self importance.
Yes, I did just spend a weekend in SF's SoMa neighborhood.
And maybe some men do not react the same way you do because they do not have the same coping mechanisms to deal with "adult life."
True, not everyone had to earn what they have, or stand up on their own two feet.
My suggestion, is that they try. I see no value to society or to the individual to celebrate immaturity or mediocrity.
And maybe it is exactly attitudes like this which are the problem.
If a man wants to be aspirational then great but what's wrong with being "mediocre"? Or, what's wrong with being a man who has an average physique, who earns a mediocre wage, who marries the girl next door and contributes in his own small way to the world he lives in?
Hypermasculine males do not have the monopoly on masculinity or get to define what it means universally.
Seriously? What's wrong with being mediocre?
Yeah, I get it, you may not be the next inductee into MENSA, or the Illuminati... but you don't want to be the best you that you can be?
I don't even want to understand that type of approach to life.
Women, children, and the weak do not have the monopoly on getting to define what masculine, or even maleness means universally. If you want the right to define something, earn that right, and be able to defend the definition. You can't do that by promoting mediocrity.
You wont understand it and neither will I.
I made a few edits, but yeah...
I do not understand why someone wouldn't want to be the best they can be.
Well for example you know how people say like my wife/ hubby is my better half? So if they are trying to be the best self and your other half is the better have does that make them like superman or superwoman?
I know it is just an expression people use though.0 -
Preach, Neo.0
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I much prefer expecting adults to act like adults, as opposed to socially maladjusted, immature dip wads who have an over inflated sense of self importance.
Yes, I did just spend a weekend in SF's SoMa neighborhood.
And maybe some men do not react the same way you do because they do not have the same coping mechanisms to deal with "adult life."
True, not everyone had to earn what they have, or stand up on their own two feet.
My suggestion, is that they try. I see no value to society or to the individual to celebrate immaturity or mediocrity.
And maybe it is exactly attitudes like this which are the problem.
If a man wants to be aspirational then great but what's wrong with being "mediocre"? Or, what's wrong with being a man who has an average physique, who earns a mediocre wage, who marries the girl next door and contributes in his own small way to the world he lives in?
Hypermasculine males do not have the monopoly on masculinity or get to define what it means universally.
Seriously? What's wrong with being mediocre? You really just asked that?
Yeah, I get it, you may not be the next inductee into MENSA, or the Illuminati... but you don't want to be the best you that you can be?
I don't even want to understand that type of approach to life.
Women, children, and the weak do not have the monopoly on getting to define what masculine, or even maleness means universally. If you want the right to define something, earn that right, and be able to defend the definition. You can't do that by promoting mediocrity.
Also, I'm sorry, if you aren't masculine, and don't want to be, you have no right to define for others what masculine is.
Correct, I did ask what is wrong with being mediocre, and I ask again, what is wrong with being mediocre? Most people are. Most people will be finishers rather than competitors and there is great achievement in that. Many time people will feel failures when in reality they should feel joy.
Hypermasculinity sells a lie on many occasions and the lie is the result determines what is mediocre or not rather than the application or the effort that someone puts into the process. A man may bust his *kitten* day after day to support his family and end up in a "mediocre" job and be classed as a "failure" for doing so. What utter drivel.
Women, children and yes, even the weak do have a say in the conversation in what constitutes a man. No person has to earn the right to free expression.
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Not disagreeing with what you're saying, per se...but I'm failing to understand to what you're arguing for or against and how that relates to the articleNoelFigart1 wrote: »The structure is set up for the non-powerful to be consumables for those with more power. In general, but not always, it's the straight white male.
Wanna see what the power structure really is? Step out of your assigned role in front of someone who has the power to sanction you for it. It's enlightening. But kinda like the matrix, once you see it, you can't not see it.
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I much prefer expecting adults to act like adults, as opposed to socially maladjusted, immature dip wads who have an over inflated sense of self importance.
Yes, I did just spend a weekend in SF's SoMa neighborhood.
And maybe some men do not react the same way you do because they do not have the same coping mechanisms to deal with "adult life."
True, not everyone had to earn what they have, or stand up on their own two feet.
My suggestion, is that they try. I see no value to society or to the individual to celebrate immaturity or mediocrity.
And maybe it is exactly attitudes like this which are the problem.
If a man wants to be aspirational then great but what's wrong with being "mediocre"? Or, what's wrong with being a man who has an average physique, who earns a mediocre wage, who marries the girl next door and contributes in his own small way to the world he lives in?
Hypermasculine males do not have the monopoly on masculinity or get to define what it means universally.
Seriously? What's wrong with being mediocre? You really just asked that?
Yeah, I get it, you may not be the next inductee into MENSA, or the Illuminati... but you don't want to be the best you that you can be?
I don't even want to understand that type of approach to life.
Women, children, and the weak do not have the monopoly on getting to define what masculine, or even maleness means universally. If you want the right to define something, earn that right, and be able to defend the definition. You can't do that by promoting mediocrity.
Also, I'm sorry, if you aren't masculine, and don't want to be, you have no right to define for others what masculine is.
Some people have more time than others. Some have more responsibility at home than others. Not everyone has unlimited time to work out.0 -
dougpconnell219 wrote: »
I much prefer expecting adults to act like adults, as opposed to socially maladjusted, immature dip wads who have an over inflated sense of self importance.
Yes, I did just spend a weekend in SF's SoMa neighborhood.
And maybe some men do not react the same way you do because they do not have the same coping mechanisms to deal with "adult life."
True, not everyone had to earn what they have, or stand up on their own two feet.
My suggestion, is that they try. I see no value to society or to the individual to celebrate immaturity or mediocrity.
And maybe it is exactly attitudes like this which are the problem.
If a man wants to be aspirational then great but what's wrong with being "mediocre"? Or, what's wrong with being a man who has an average physique, who earns a mediocre wage, who marries the girl next door and contributes in his own small way to the world he lives in?
Hypermasculine males do not have the monopoly on masculinity or get to define what it means universally.
Seriously? What's wrong with being mediocre? You really just asked that?
Yeah, I get it, you may not be the next inductee into MENSA, or the Illuminati... but you don't want to be the best you that you can be?
I don't even want to understand that type of approach to life.
Women, children, and the weak do not have the monopoly on getting to define what masculine, or even maleness means universally. If you want the right to define something, earn that right, and be able to defend the definition. You can't do that by promoting mediocrity.
Also, I'm sorry, if you aren't masculine, and don't want to be, you have no right to define for others what masculine is.
Some people have more time than others. Some have more responsibility at home than others. Not everyone has unlimited time to work out.
I am so lost. What are you talking about?0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »
Not disagreeing with what you're saying, per se...but I'm failing to understand to what you're arguing for or against and how that relates to the articleNoelFigart1 wrote: »The structure is set up for the non-powerful to be consumables for those with more power. In general, but not always, it's the straight white male.
Wanna see what the power structure really is? Step out of your assigned role in front of someone who has the power to sanction you for it. It's enlightening. But kinda like the matrix, once you see it, you can't not see it.
In general, the power structure favors heterosexual men, and in those instances, I think there is greater pressure on the woman to present as a superior consumable. It is not unusual to be mistreated if you step out of this assigned role. (And for those of you who argue that women are crueler about this, I will keep in mind that those with less power will fiercely protect what they have in a way that will make them seem quite ruthless to those who do not even realize where they are in the power structure)
I'm not saying this pressure does not exist for men, but I think in general it is considerably less than for women.
So no, I don't think men have it as bad as women to be considered sexually attractive. Even the media has some pretty clear examples of this. (Tony Soprano and his attractiveness relative to his wife leaps to mind, but there are others).
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The peer pressure just comes from different sources for men, whereas women get it from both men and other women alike. Men don't generally care when talking with other men but there is definitely pressure from women. When I was a teenager and in my 20's I had never even heard the term "manscaping" or even thought to shave there, but nowadays it seems most women expect that to be trim. With the amount of male models and actors nowadays that actually have a build to them and aren't all skinny emo ultra-skinny jean wearing punks. I hear it all the time with my wife's friends... "Look at his arms, look at those abs, *kitten*, etc." which isn't all that different then men looking at attractive women. Some of the expectations that women have for men are not all that different from what men and other women expect from a woman.0
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the pressure. from the media about male and female body standards is roughly equal .
BUT have you ever noticed that when people insult a woman, it is often something about her body or sexuality (like being called fat or a *kitten*) but when men get insulted the last thing that is referenced is his body. it is more offensive to people when a woman is is not thin vs when a man is not muscular.
so both sides have pressure, but for the most part only one side is ridiculed when they dont live up to those standards0 -
Not. Even. Close.
Most of the most vitriolic comments about women's bodies are from other women. Most men don't care.
Why in the hell do people want to be victims all the time?
Jesus Christ.
I've honestly never had guys judge my body either, despite me judging my own. I'll complain my boobs are too small, they say they like them. Or one time I told a guy that my legs were jiggly and he was like "dude it's just water" lol. Women ARE super aware of others' appearance. It's lame.
I'm sure you have- just not to your face.- and it's different than how women judge- but it happens. Regardless of your awareness of it or not.0 -
Is this why hubby shaves off his grey chest hairs? I wish he'd stop. I'm into the Sean Connery look.0
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dougpconnell219 wrote: »
I much prefer expecting adults to act like adults, as opposed to socially maladjusted, immature dip wads who have an over inflated sense of self importance.
Yes, I did just spend a weekend in SF's SoMa neighborhood.
And maybe some men do not react the same way you do because they do not have the same coping mechanisms to deal with "adult life."
True, not everyone had to earn what they have, or stand up on their own two feet.
My suggestion, is that they try. I see no value to society or to the individual to celebrate immaturity or mediocrity.
And maybe it is exactly attitudes like this which are the problem.
If a man wants to be aspirational then great but what's wrong with being "mediocre"? Or, what's wrong with being a man who has an average physique, who earns a mediocre wage, who marries the girl next door and contributes in his own small way to the world he lives in?
Hypermasculine males do not have the monopoly on masculinity or get to define what it means universally.
Seriously? What's wrong with being mediocre? You really just asked that?
Yeah, I get it, you may not be the next inductee into MENSA, or the Illuminati... but you don't want to be the best you that you can be?
I don't even want to understand that type of approach to life.
Women, children, and the weak do not have the monopoly on getting to define what masculine, or even maleness means universally. If you want the right to define something, earn that right, and be able to defend the definition. You can't do that by promoting mediocrity.
Also, I'm sorry, if you aren't masculine, and don't want to be, you have no right to define for others what masculine is.
Some people have more time than others. Some have more responsibility at home than others. Not everyone has unlimited time to work out.
That does not mean sit in your couch and rot in your own mediocrity.
I mean- if that's what YOU want to do- go right ahead. You have a right to do that.
But I do not understand why you would just want to coast through life.
no one is asking anyone one to train like an Olympian. But you should train the best YOU CAN- within the confines of YOUR life.
Mediocrity: this about sums up my view on it.
"Far better is it to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure... than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy nor suffer much, because they live in a gray twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."
Theodore Roosevelt.
I feel sorry for people who think mediocrity is okay- how dull and disappointing their lives must be.
And then in turn I find it reprehensible- how dare you waste your self- how selfish are you that you won't share you're potential greatness with the rest of the world.
Stop being selfish- be awesome.0 -
I'm sure you have- just not to your face.- and it's different than how women judge- but it happens. Regardless of your awareness of it or not.
Don't confue the vast majority of men looking at you as judgement. We're answering one question and one question only with ourselves.
Would you sleep with that woman? The answer, for most straight guys, is yes. Sometimes its a resounding yes, other times its yeah of course, sometimes its yes but maybe only once or twice. But make no mistake. We want to sleep with most all of you.
Judge you by your clothes? Nope. Hair color? Maybe 15 year olds do, but actual men don't care. How does it feel when I pull on it? That's as far as hair goes. Eye color...I told you men are not women. All the other stuff women are concerned with. Not my worry.
We do appreciate that you take care of yourself and want to look nice. But, men are pretty binary.
Sex, yes. Sex, no. Off, on.
You're welcome.
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This is something I've seen a lot when stumbling into the bodybuilding.com misc forum (clearly not my demographic but fascinating to read, like watching a National Geographic special on a different culture.) There's a ton of focus/worry/gnashing of teeth over height and hair. A lot of it is phrased in a "will girls like me" way and it's kind of sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well.
Yeah, but that's like judging all of America solely based on watching Jersey Shore.
Well, if you ignore the misogynist, homophobic crap of /misc. Oh, wait...
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I'm sure you have- just not to your face.- and it's different than how women judge- but it happens. Regardless of your awareness of it or not.
Don't confue the vast majority of men looking at you as judgement. We're answering one question and one question only with ourselves.
Would you sleep with that woman? The answer, for most straight guys, is yes. Sometimes its a resounding yes, other times its yeah of course, sometimes its yes but maybe only once or twice. But make no mistake. We want to sleep with most all of you.
Judge you by your clothes? Nope. Hair color? Maybe 15 year olds do, but actual men don't care. How does it feel when I pull on it? That's as far as hair goes. Eye color...I told you men are not women. All the other stuff women are concerned with. Not my worry.
We do appreciate that you take care of yourself and want to look nice. But, men are pretty binary.
Sex, yes. Sex, no. Off, on.
You're welcome.
I'm probably more like you when I view women but I've met many men that are incredibly critical of how a woman looks. Some of those men are attractive themselves and some are not, it's kind of a weird thing. My wife and I go to this one country bar and there's this one guy that comes in with his wife and he always has her dress a certain way, she has to stand with him a certain way, it's rather weird.
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Not. Even. Close.
Most of the most vitriolic comments about women's bodies are from other women. Most men don't care.
Why in the hell do people want to be victims all the time?
Jesus Christ.
I've honestly never had guys judge my body either, despite me judging my own. I'll complain my boobs are too small, they say they like them. Or one time I told a guy that my legs were jiggly and he was like "dude it's just water" lol. Women ARE super aware of others' appearance. It's lame.
I'm sure you have- just not to your face.- and it's different than how women judge- but it happens. Regardless of your awareness of it or not.
And I could care less, since it doesn't affect me. I know that people have likely made judgementsabout my shaved head, but what goes on in their heads doesn't change what I think our do.0 -
I don't feel like I can really comment on the girls vs boys pressure stuff (real or perceived). I've only ever been a chick.
But as a chick, I don't (personally) feel pressure to look a certain way. Maybe it's because I'm in my mid 30's and I just don't care? But then I've never really cared, looking back.
I also have zero expectations of men and their bodies. I certainly don't think men *have* to look a certain way to be desirable. Mine certainly doesn't have a six pack and I think he's super hot.
There may be pressure - but I think it's up to the individual what they do with it.0 -
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