Male body pressure becoming the same as women?
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It is a judgement.
It doesn't matter WHAT I think about it- but it's still a judgement. She's either hot/mediocre enough to have sex with- or not. It's still a judgement.
Like i said- it's not the same- and I'm well aware of this but don't pretend it's still not a judgement. It's an out and out objectification about how fukable a woman is. And that's a pass or fail judgement. Don't pretend like it's better than a woman's version of that- which is typically done out of jealousy: it's still a judgement.
the disucssion wasn't about you're concern or not. The question was "do men do it" and the answer is a resounding YES.And I could care less, since it doesn't affect me. I know that people have likely made judgementsabout my shaved head, but what goes on in their heads doesn't change what I think our do.
I don't care if you care- they don't care if you care- you don't care if they care. All fine.
But let's not pretend "it' never happens."
It happens ever single time you step out side- you're objectified and viewed on your fu*kability.
Call it whatever you want. People look at each other and make judgements. Everyone everywhere does it, I was not saying men don't judge. We just judge on a different scale than women do
Yes everyone judges, including you and me.
Better to live in reality and make your peace with it, then to deny reality and boo-hoo about it.
That was my only point.
There are a lot of people out there, men and women, who need to quit being *kitten*.0 -
I think yes and no.
Are men susceptible to the same kind of body issues that women are? Yes. Most defiantly yes. Body issues, eating disorders, depression, shame...these are not gender exclusive issues.
Do I think that the American society has an equal beauty standard for men and women. No, I don't. There are still a far wider variety of men displayed all throughout media (age, weight, height, build etc...) than there are women. I do feel like recently there has been a hard push for a wider variety of women across all boards and there has been some success. On the other side, there has possibly been an increase in the amount of content targeted toward the female/male homosexual gaze as we are slowly starting to realize that those people spend money too.
However, if statistics showed that there has been a recent increase in male body issues, I would not be surprised. These little changes would cause an increase. I think it's more that women are finally starting to be broadly marketed to and because of that, men are starting to get a small dose/taste of what women have been dealing with for a long time and they are starting to experience real complications from it. I think it's far from being even close to being equal though.
Now having said all this, I do not mean to minimize ANY male suffering or body issues because it doesn't really matter how or why people suffer, it just matters that they are suffering. Anyone, male or female, who is fighting with any kind of body issues/depression/eating disorders and the like should be taken seriously. This is actually where I think it could possibly be more difficult for men because I have seen that many men are ashamed/embarrassed of their issues and are far less likely to reach out for support and help. I can get down and out and talk to a girlfriend and that girlfriend will have empathy for my issues since she likely has the same struggle. I'm not sure many guys have the same support.
*sorry for the edits0 -
I'm sure you have- just not to your face.- and it's different than how women judge- but it happens. Regardless of your awareness of it or not.
Don't confue the vast majority of men looking at you as judgement. We're answering one question and one question only with ourselves.
Would you sleep with that woman? The answer, for most straight guys, is yes. Sometimes its a resounding yes, other times its yeah of course, sometimes its yes but maybe only once or twice. But make no mistake. We want to sleep with most all of you.
Judge you by your clothes? Nope. Hair color? Maybe 15 year olds do, but actual men don't care. How does it feel when I pull on it? That's as far as hair goes. Eye color...I told you men are not women. All the other stuff women are concerned with. Not my worry.
We do appreciate that you take care of yourself and want to look nice. But, men are pretty binary.
Sex, yes. Sex, no. Off, on.
You're welcome.
It is a judgement.
It doesn't matter WHAT I think about it- but it's still a judgement. She's either hot/mediocre enough to have sex with- or not. It's still a judgement.
Like i said- it's not the same- and I'm well aware of this but don't pretend it's still not a judgement. It's an out and out objectification about how fukable a woman is. And that's a pass or fail judgement. Don't pretend like it's better than a woman's version of that- which is typically done out of jealousy: it's still a judgement.
the disucssion wasn't about you're concern or not. The question was "do men do it" and the answer is a resounding YES.And I could care less, since it doesn't affect me. I know that people have likely made judgementsabout my shaved head, but what goes on in their heads doesn't change what I think our do.
I don't care if you care- they don't care if you care- you don't care if they care. All fine.
But let's not pretend "it' never happens."
It happens ever single time you step out side- you're objectified and viewed on your fu*kability.
I like your photo.
I'm not trying to objectify you,
but . . . robertdowneyjrlipbite.gif
just sayin.0 -
Male body beard pressure.
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It is a judgement.
It doesn't matter WHAT I think about it- but it's still a judgement. She's either hot/mediocre enough to have sex with- or not. It's still a judgement.
Like i said- it's not the same- and I'm well aware of this but don't pretend it's still not a judgement. It's an out and out objectification about how fukable a woman is. And that's a pass or fail judgement. Don't pretend like it's better than a woman's version of that- which is typically done out of jealousy: it's still a judgement.
the disucssion wasn't about you're concern or not. The question was "do men do it" and the answer is a resounding YES.And I could care less, since it doesn't affect me. I know that people have likely made judgementsabout my shaved head, but what goes on in their heads doesn't change what I think our do.
I don't care if you care- they don't care if you care- you don't care if they care. All fine.
But let's not pretend "it' never happens."
It happens ever single time you step out side- you're objectified and viewed on your fu*kability.
Call it whatever you want. People look at each other and make judgements. Everyone everywhere does it, I was not saying men don't judge. We just judge on a different scale than women do
Yes everyone judges, including you and me.
Better to live in reality and make your peace with it, then to deny reality and boo-hoo about it.
That was my only point.
There are a lot of people out there, men and women, who need to quit being *kitten*.
I would agree. And I thought I was pretty sure I had said that in my original post. But yeah- I think we are on the same page. LOL
even if you were- I ain't made at yaI like your photo.
I'm not trying to objectify you,
but . . . robertdowneyjrlipbite.gif
just sayin.
where is that gif anyway- we need that.0 -
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I think yes and no.
Are men susceptible to the same kind of body issues that women are? Yes. Most defiantly yes. Body issues, eating disorders, depression, shame...these are not gender exclusive issues.
Do I think that the American society has an equal beauty standard for men and women. No, I don't. There are still a far wider variety of men displayed all throughout media (age, weight, height, build etc...) than there are women. I do feel like recently there has been a hard push for a wider variety of women across all boards and there has been some success. On the other side, there has possibly been an increase in the amount of content targeted toward the female/male homosexual gaze as we are slowly starting to realize that those people spend money too.
However, if statistics showed that there has been a recent increase in male body issues, I would not be surprised. These little changes would cause an increase. I think it's more that women are finally starting to be broadly marketed to and because of that, men are starting to get a small dose/taste of what women have been dealing with for a long time and they are starting to experience real complications from it. I think it's far from being even close to being equal though.
Now having said all this, I do not mean to minimize ANY male suffering or body issues because it doesn't really matter how or why people suffer, it just matters that they are suffering. Anyone, male or female, who is fighting with any kind of body issues/depression/eating disorders and the like should be taken seriously. This is actually where I think it could possibly be more difficult for men because I have seen that many men are ashamed/embarrassed of their issues and are far less likely to reach out for support and help. I can get down and out and talk to a girlfriend and that girlfriend will have empathy for my issues since she likely has the same struggle. I'm not sure many guys have the same support.
*sorry for the edits
Agree.
I do think the expectations on women to look a certain way are more pervasive throughout society, and not just in the context of attracting someone to sleep with or be in a relationship with. However the answer to this is definitely not for the superficial objectification of men to catch up with women. I don't know, as I've no experience of male-male relationships or interaction, but I wouldn't be surprised if men in general did not feel as confident as women do with their friends to talk about body issues which I think can help you to recognise perhaps others do not hold you to the standard of perfection you hold yourself or that the media encourages you to believe you must attain.
Being judged on your looks daily, having strangers comment on your appearance, and feeling ashamed of normal features like cellulite and body hair is not something I think the general population of men are missing out on. I don't give a monkey's if a man is tall, muscular, super handsome, rich, intelligent, or sophisticated; I just like men!
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I never felt this personally or noticed it as an issue with friends. Strong and lean has always been admired. So has tall dark and handsome. I dont know if there is some overwhelming pressure to fit into those categories though. One guy might think you have to have a fast sports car to be attractive. Another might think you have to have a lifted truck. Then another thinks you have to be strong as an ox and another thinks you have to be a chiseled Greek statue.
Men seem to be really all over the board as to what their ideals of attractiveness are.
It seems like there is an element that wants to tell you you are being manipulated if you want to look a certain way. Usually by people that dont have that as a goal. They want to paint you as egomaniac one minute or a victim the next. Its weird.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »This is something I've seen a lot when stumbling into the bodybuilding.com misc forum (clearly not my demographic but fascinating to read, like watching a National Geographic special on a different culture.) There's a ton of focus/worry/gnashing of teeth over height and hair. A lot of it is phrased in a "will girls like me" way and it's kind of sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well.
Yeah, but that's like judging all of America solely based on watching Jersey Shore.
Well, if you ignore the misogynist, homophobic crap of /misc. Oh, wait...
Not sure how you leaped to conclusion that I was judging when I was simply commenting on what I see in one specific forum. Clearly not all of America (or any other place) is going to represented by that forum, much like the opinions in this thread aren't representing all of America, Canada, etc.
"sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well."
using /misc as a reference to other than the cesspool of the bottom feeders is probably a mistake.
BTW, is "judging" now a bad word? Not to be used?
Replace it with "comparing" in my sentence - maybe it won't feel so hair raising then.
I wasn't saying you were judgy - we know on MFP (and planet fitness) that is so wrong - I meant that the demographics of /misc gives you no data on 99.999999999% of the rest of men.
You aware, m8?0 -
I don’t think men care so much about each others’ body types or appearance (within reason), but rather, what they do. In alpha-male days of my past, the standard was to out-drink everyone (only whiskey would do, that is a man’s drink), out shoot on the weapon range and march farther and with more weight in your rucksack in the Army, listen to more hardcore music, take the least amount of *kitten* from others, engage in the more dangerous hobbies (sky diving, scuba diving, etc.), get the best looking women, and other predictable macho bullsh*t. So if you are Johnny Bada**, by these standards, the other guys didn’t care if you have visible abs or a V-shaped lower torso, manscape appropriately, can pull of yoga poses, can grow a fancy beard, etc.0
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A couple of random thoughts in no particular order;
1. Michaelangelo's David - the male ideal has been around a while - how many young males aspired to that definition of perfection throughout the ages?
2. Judging - its what human's do. Would I mate with that person? Would that person mate with me? Is that person as beautiful as my spouse? Do I look as good as that or would I look as good wearing, driving, owning etc. that?
3. Power structure: its how the world works, as someone who has hit a glass ceiling in a number of companies, for various reasons - I'm out spoken, I'm funny (yes thats threatening to some in power) and I double barrelled my last name with that of my spouse when we got married - so I must have handed her my cojones - right?
4. At 53 - I do what I do for me and my gratification - and I don't mean shallow immediate gratification, I mean my feelings of self worth.
5. As usual I agree with dbmata - mediocrity is not acceptable - and it doesn't mean spending hours in the gym - it's being the best you that you can be. The best husband, the best father, the best employee, the best leader so when you look in the mirror - you like the person that is looking back.
No regrets.0 -
EvgeniZyntx wrote: »EvgeniZyntx wrote: »This is something I've seen a lot when stumbling into the bodybuilding.com misc forum (clearly not my demographic but fascinating to read, like watching a National Geographic special on a different culture.) There's a ton of focus/worry/gnashing of teeth over height and hair. A lot of it is phrased in a "will girls like me" way and it's kind of sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well.
Yeah, but that's like judging all of America solely based on watching Jersey Shore.
Well, if you ignore the misogynist, homophobic crap of /misc. Oh, wait...
Not sure how you leaped to conclusion that I was judging when I was simply commenting on what I see in one specific forum. Clearly not all of America (or any other place) is going to represented by that forum, much like the opinions in this thread aren't representing all of America, Canada, etc.
"sad to see how many guys seem to take the negativity to heart. I think guys are harsher on guys than are women and the vice versa is true as well."
using /misc as a reference to other than the cesspool of the bottom feeders is probably a mistake.
BTW, is "judging" now a bad word? Not to be used?
Replace it with "comparing" in my sentence - maybe it won't feel so hair raising then.
I wasn't saying you were judgy - we know on MFP (and planet fitness) that is so wrong - I meant that the demographics of /misc gives you no data on 99.999999999% of the rest of men.
You aware, m8?
Oof, I was being unclear. Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
*In general, and based on my husband since he's pretty much the only male with whom I socialize, I wouldn't think that the majority of men are feeling this pressure or, if they are aware of it they don't care.
Judgy--not a bad word. Life is a series of judgments, there's no way around it. (But we're all gonna make it, right?)0 -
goldthistime wrote: »Not to mention manscaping.
My body is more untamed jungle and is staying that way.
Mine gets a little untamed at times too. Wait is that TMI? On a serious note, I didn't read the article because the quote was too whiny for my taste. I think men and women have always had a certain body image society deemed appropriate. The standards have changed throughout time, but that's about it. You either care about the ideal image and the way it's achieved, or you don't and strive for your own desired body and goals (and live happily ever after).0 -
Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?0 -
sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
Well you are clearly going to know more than I would what single people in your area are looking for. I've been married for 17 years and with my husband for 25 so I've never really dated and if I had, it would have been long enough ago that my data would be outdated.
Out of curiosity, do you find it's the same with regular offline dating as it is with online dating, as far as automatic disqualification goes?
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sklarbodds wrote: »sklarbodds wrote: »Should have specified that I meant the miscers (not all guys) are much harsher on each other than women are on them But they are convinced that it is just women pushing the standards on them. I do realize it's a very specific demographic on that board and I have no idea what most men's thoughts are on the matter*. I just automatically thought of the misc because so much aligns with some of the things mentioned in the article.
I would think the opposite, and I was married for 15 years and single for the last 2.5
For instance, I'm 5'9" roughly and if any woman is 5'7" or taller I'm almost automatically not an option. I wish I was exaggerating, but I'm really not. I can't grow any taller. In a world where dating starts with a profile pic, the chiseled jaw line that some guys have is a clear advantage. I happen to have a beard (it's often the first thing women want to talk about when messaging), but I have friends who can't really grow one (looks sloppy and patchy when they do).
My guy friends do say some things, but it doesn't ever feel judgy as much as jovial (maybe it's my perception?).
That's funny. I'm 5'9" and it frustrates me that all the tall guys seem to go for tiny women. I'm happy if a guy is at least equal to my height. I do, however, seem to get hit on a lot by dudes under 5'7". It feels like a fetish thing.
Do you give the 5'7" guy a shot?
Sometimes, but not usually.
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