Lawsuit 'Discriminatory' Gluten-Free Menu
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LOL, gluten free products cost more, that's why the prices are higher. You're also paying for the chef to do his/her best to avoid cross-contamination. Be thankful that the option is out there... gluten-free options didn't used to be so readily available for Celiac sufferers.
Personally, I'm always a little surprised that it's ONLY a buck or two more expensive.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »Devil's advocate here. Should a wheelchair bound person have to pay a surcharge on their order if a wheelchair ramp is installed for disabled people? Just curious what everyones opinion on that would be.
That's really not a good comparison IMO. Mostly because of the fact that wheelchair ramps HAVE to be installed so it's not costing the business an undue hardship or extra money to have it put in upon the installation of the building. In fact it probably doesn't cost much more for it to be added into the drawings.
Now if they didn't have it and there was a lawsuit and then they were forced to install wheelchair ramps on every single one of their locations nationwide then I would expect an over all increase in their prices of the products to compensate for the cost (and no, their insurance will not cover that).0 -
I'm finding it hilarious about the number of people defending the coffee woman about the water being "superheated."
Does anyone realize that coffee NEEDS to be brewed at 80-95C (176-203F) for it to brew properly? Water at 60C would burn skin in 2 seconds. At 70C, less than a second. At 80C, you're talking second degree burns in less than a second.
Don't even get me started on tea, which NEEDS to be brewed at boiling (water doesn't get any hotter outside of a compressed environment) for most herbal teas, otherwise you don't get the full flavour.
Are you all saying that you want your coffee and tea from restaurants to taste bad, or do you want them to brew it and wait 10 minutes before giving it to you, so it can cool down to a point where it won't burn you??
You all need to grow up and get some common sense.0 -
Most restaurant coffee tastes terrible. Most Americans can't brew a pot to save their lives.
I'm a bit biased though.0 -
njitaliana wrote: »I am allergic to wheat, so I have to buy gluten-free products. They cost more! So, they will cost the restaurant more, too. For 30 years, I couldn't eat pasta, pizza or sandwiches/burgers at a restaurant. Now, I finally can, since restaurants are starting to have gluten-free items. I'd rather pay an extra dollar than have the restaurant remove gluten-free items from the menu. That's what this lawsuit will result in, and I'll be back to never having pasta/pizza/sandwiches again. Grrrr.
I agree, what is probably most frustrating about this is that this lawsuit will ultimately be more harmful to people who need to eat GF when restaurants no longer want to provide more expensive GF options out of fear of being sued.
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tincanonastring wrote: »Adrianox85 wrote: »Devil's advocate here and as a person who suffers from celiac disease. Should a wheelchair bound person have to pay a surcharge on their order if a wheelchair ramp is installed for disabled people? Just curious what everyones opinion on that would be.
Is celiac disease a disability? I'm not sure it's an appropriate comparison.
ETA: I'm not saying it's not a disability. I just don't know if all conditions count as disabilities deserving of protection. I have a pretty nasty immune system disorder that should limit what I eat, but I don't know that I would qualify for disability protection.
Let's break it down so you can understand better then:
"(1) Disability
The term “disability” means, with respect to an individual—
(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual;
(B) a record of such an impairment; or
(C) being regarded as having such an impairment (as described in paragraph (3))."
Let's assume that the person has a documented medical history of having celiac disease. Most celiacs do. Prong one met.
Next prong...does it affect a major life activity?
"(2) Major life activities
(A) In general
For purposes of paragraph (1), major life activities include, but are not limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working.
(B) Major bodily functions
For purposes of paragraph (1), a major life activity also includes the operation of a major bodily function, including but not limited to, functions of the immune system, normal cell growth, digestive, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, endocrine, and reproductive functions."
I think it affects the operation of digestive/bowel function and one could argue that, depending on severity, it affects the ability to eat. Doesn't matter, it affects a major bodily function, so prong two met.
So, celiac disease is a disability. With the act amended in 2008, pretty much everything is.0 -
tincanonastring wrote: »Adrianox85 wrote: »Devil's advocate here and as a person who suffers from celiac disease. Should a wheelchair bound person have to pay a surcharge on their order if a wheelchair ramp is installed for disabled people? Just curious what everyones opinion on that would be.
Is celiac disease a disability? I'm not sure it's an appropriate comparison.
ETA: I'm not saying it's not a disability. I just don't know if all conditions count as disabilities deserving of protection. I have a pretty nasty immune system disorder that should limit what I eat, but I don't know that I would qualify for disability protection.
Let's break it down so you can understand better then:
"(1) Disability
The term “disability” means, with respect to an individual—
(A) a physical or mental impairment that substantially limits one or more major life activities of such individual;
(B) a record of such an impairment; or
(C) being regarded as having such an impairment (as described in paragraph (3))."
Let's assume that the person has a documented medical history of having celiac disease. Most celiacs do. Prong one met.
Next prong...does it affect a major life activity?
"(2) Major life activities
(A) In general
For purposes of paragraph (1), major life activities include, but are not limited to, caring for oneself, performing manual tasks, seeing, hearing, eating, sleeping, walking, standing, lifting, bending, speaking, breathing, learning, reading, concentrating, thinking, communicating, and working.
(B) Major bodily functions
For purposes of paragraph (1), a major life activity also includes the operation of a major bodily function, including but not limited to, functions of the immune system, normal cell growth, digestive, bowel, bladder, neurological, brain, respiratory, circulatory, endocrine, and reproductive functions."
I think it affects the operation of digestive/bowel function and one could argue that, depending on severity, it affects the ability to eat. Doesn't matter, it affects a major bodily function, so prong two met.
So, celiac disease is a disability. With the act amended in 2008, pretty much everything is.
Meh. Maybe it affects the ability to eat, but it's still a personal choice to eat at a restaurant. You can make the case that said person has an option to go to a grocery store.
Now, the digestive issue? That's different because it can come on in an emergency. That's why Chron's/Colitis patients carry cards to show so that they can be let in to restaurants and such to use a bathroom.0 -
JustAnotherGirlSuzanne wrote: »LOL, gluten free products cost more, that's why the prices are higher. You're also paying for the chef to do his/her best to avoid cross-contamination. Be thankful that the option is out there... gluten-free options didn't used to be so readily available for Celiac sufferers.
Personally, I'm always a little surprised that it's ONLY a buck or two more expensive.
Devil's Advocate
Here's the problem. Can we agree that an apple is gluten free? Yes? Okay.
Can we also agree that an apple costs the price of an apple? okay. Great.
Now I open a restaurant and I sell apples and bread. I charge 50 cents for the apples that are kept in the bread basket along with the bread and 1 dollar for the apple that sit in the apple-only basket. Is this cost justified?
The problem here is not the fact that gluten free products cost more. They don't. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Both are gluten free. We aren't talking about gluten free cakes and pastas. PF Changs doesn't have gluten free bread or GF substitutes, They just have foods WITHOUT gluten (Vegetables and Meat) and are prepared in a safe environment. You're paying a surcharge for the preparation of the food to keep you safe from an allergy.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »JustAnotherGirlSuzanne wrote: »LOL, gluten free products cost more, that's why the prices are higher. You're also paying for the chef to do his/her best to avoid cross-contamination. Be thankful that the option is out there... gluten-free options didn't used to be so readily available for Celiac sufferers.
Personally, I'm always a little surprised that it's ONLY a buck or two more expensive.
Devil's Advocate
Here's the problem. Can we agree that an apple is gluten free? Yes? Okay.
Can we also agree that an apple costs the price of an apple? okay. Great.
Now I open a restaurant and I sell apples and bread. I charge 50 cents for the apples that are kept in the bread basket along with the bread and 1 dollar for the apple that sit in the apple-only basket. Is this cost justified?
The problem here is not the fact that gluten free products cost more. They don't. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Both are gluten free. We aren't talking about gluten free cakes and pastas. PF Changs doesn't have gluten free bread or GF substitutes, They just have foods WITHOUT gluten (Vegetables and Meat) and are prepared in a safe environment. You're paying a surcharge for the preparation of the food to keep you safe from an allergy.
There's an enormous difference between an apple in a basket and a working, professional kitchen churning out 100s of orders and trying to avoid cross contamination. And I'm sure they use some GF products in sauces and such. This comparison doesn't hold.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »JustAnotherGirlSuzanne wrote: »LOL, gluten free products cost more, that's why the prices are higher. You're also paying for the chef to do his/her best to avoid cross-contamination. Be thankful that the option is out there... gluten-free options didn't used to be so readily available for Celiac sufferers.
Personally, I'm always a little surprised that it's ONLY a buck or two more expensive.
Devil's Advocate
Here's the problem. Can we agree that an apple is gluten free? Yes? Okay.
Can we also agree that an apple costs the price of an apple? okay. Great.
Now I open a restaurant and I sell apples and bread. I charge 50 cents for the apples that are kept in the bread basket along with the bread and 1 dollar for the apple that sit in the apple-only basket. Is this cost justified?
The problem here is not the fact that gluten free products cost more. They don't. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Both are gluten free. We aren't talking about gluten free cakes and pastas. PF Changs doesn't have gluten free bread or GF substitutes, They just have foods WITHOUT gluten (Vegetables and Meat) and are prepared in a safe environment. You're paying a surcharge for the preparation of the food to keep you safe from an allergy.
Are you saying that they effectively have two kitchens, one for foods prepared around products with gluten and one for products that are then guaranteed gluten free?
I don't know about you, but one kitchen is pretty expensive. Two kitchens is frightfully expensive. If you aren't going to charge more for their gluten free foods, then they should charge more for both and have it all equal. Either way, someone is going to pay more, otherwise the restaurant will go out of business.
ETA: It's like purchasing food products from a company that offers foods that are allergens and foods that are guaranteed free of any allergens.
They need an entire factory that produces foods that are completely free of allergens, and a factory for all the foods that do contain allergens. It is impossible to produce them in the same factory, especially using the same tooling.
You're being forced into a situation with double the capital cost over going non-allergen free. It would be impossible to charge a lower price for this.
Not to mention, if you try to charge a higher price for "normal" foods, no one will buy your product because people are cheap.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »JustAnotherGirlSuzanne wrote: »LOL, gluten free products cost more, that's why the prices are higher. You're also paying for the chef to do his/her best to avoid cross-contamination. Be thankful that the option is out there... gluten-free options didn't used to be so readily available for Celiac sufferers.
Personally, I'm always a little surprised that it's ONLY a buck or two more expensive.
Devil's Advocate
Here's the problem. Can we agree that an apple is gluten free? Yes? Okay.
Can we also agree that an apple costs the price of an apple? okay. Great.
Now I open a restaurant and I sell apples and bread. I charge 50 cents for the apples that are kept in the bread basket along with the bread and 1 dollar for the apple that sit in the apple-only basket. Is this cost justified?
The problem here is not the fact that gluten free products cost more. They don't. Apples are apples and oranges are oranges. Both are gluten free. We aren't talking about gluten free cakes and pastas. PF Changs doesn't have gluten free bread or GF substitutes, They just have foods WITHOUT gluten (Vegetables and Meat) and are prepared in a safe environment. You're paying a surcharge for the preparation of the food to keep you safe from an allergy.
And that's okay if that preparation takes additional resources, whether that be storage space, separate grill areas, glove changes, training. The company needs to take those costs into account when setting prices.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »We aren't talking about gluten free cakes and pastas. PF Changs doesn't have gluten free bread or GF substitutes, They just have foods WITHOUT gluten (Vegetables and Meat) and are prepared in a safe environment. You're paying a surcharge for the preparation of the food to keep you safe from an allergy.
Actually, they do have to use GF food items, GF sauces, GF noodles (most noodles on the market are not GF), etc, so yeah, there is an increased cost.0 -
Devil's Advocate:
So then I ask this. Why aren't peanut allergy sufferers being charged more for their food?0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »Devil's Advocate:
So then I ask this. Why aren't peanut allergy sufferers being charged more for their food?
How do you know they're not? That cost could be baked into prices without notification to the consumer.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »So then I ask this. Why aren't peanut allergy sufferers being charged more for their food?
99% of food does not have peanuts in it. Therefore, it is very easy to make factories and restaurants peanut free. The costs of doing so are low.
Gluten, soy, and corn are extremely common and are in 99% of the foods we eat. To try to isolate foods that do not contain these allergens is nearly impossible and takes a lot of effort and cost.
Therefore, gluten free food is more expensive than peanut free.0 -
Because omission doesn't incur cost, substitution does. If you're replacing almonds for peanuts, they probably would.
Asking for a burger without a bun or wrapped in lettuce doesn't incur additional cost, but asking for a specialty bun, one that in a store costs $1 each vs one that costs 10 cents each, will.0 -
chivalryder wrote: »Adrianox85 wrote: »So then I ask this. Why aren't peanut allergy sufferers being charged more for their food?
99% of food does not have peanuts in it. Therefore, it is very easy to make factories and restaurants peanut free. The costs of doing so are low.
Gluten, soy, and corn are extremely common and are in 99% of the foods we eat. To try to isolate foods that do not contain these allergens is nearly impossible and takes a lot of effort and cost.
Therefore, gluten free food is more expensive than peanut free.
Wrong here. Check labels in the supermarket and see how many "This product was manufactured in a factory that also processes tree nuts" labels you can find. You'll be shocked.0 -
Peanuts aren't tree nuts.0
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Meh. Maybe it affects the ability to eat, but it's still a personal choice to eat at a restaurant. You can make the case that said person has an option to go to a grocery store.
Now, the digestive issue? That's different because it can come on in an emergency. That's why Chron's/Colitis patients carry cards to show so that they can be let in to restaurants and such to use a bathroom.
It's a disability under the ADA(AA) which is what she is suing under. The ADA extends to places of public accommodations, such as restaurants, and requires that accommodations be made.
The question is, is having a gluten-free option available and charging for it reasonable. I can see both sides to the argument, and the restaurant will likely have to show that it would face an undue burden in providing the gluten-free options for no charge.0 -
Adrianox85 wrote: »chivalryder wrote: »Adrianox85 wrote: »So then I ask this. Why aren't peanut allergy sufferers being charged more for their food?
99% of food does not have peanuts in it. Therefore, it is very easy to make factories and restaurants peanut free. The costs of doing so are low.
Gluten, soy, and corn are extremely common and are in 99% of the foods we eat. To try to isolate foods that do not contain these allergens is nearly impossible and takes a lot of effort and cost.
Therefore, gluten free food is more expensive than peanut free.
Wrong here. Check labels in the supermarket and see how many "This product was manufactured in a factory that also processes tree nuts" labels you can find. You'll be shocked.
They're being made in a factory that also processes tree nuts. They're not made of tree nuts.
Also, they're not claiming to be peanut free. So, what's your point?0
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